@fhill I somehow missed this reply earlier, but I think your priority list is actually very useful, especially for off-road wheelsets.

Looking at the discussion so far, it seems that bearings are probably the component people care about most when it comes to long-term hub reliability. They also seem to be one of the parts most likely to wear first, so bearing durability is becoming a much bigger consideration for us.

Going forward, when we evaluate hub designs, I think we'll pay particular attention to:
- bearing durability
- easy serviceability, as you mentioned
- sealing performance

For off-road use especially, those three probably matter more in the long run than having a more impressive bearing spec on paper.

Thanks again for the detailed input.

Quote from: fhill on September 23, 2026, 01:10:33 PM
As someone, who really mistreats his off-road wheelsets, high pressure washing, bumps etc. Classic CX riding, honestly depending on the use case, normally the bearings rust faster than anyother things. Never had problems with spoke holes, freehubs etc.
It's always the bearing that makes problems like rough running first.
My recommendation would be, stainless steel bearings for road use, off-road hubs normal bearings as with the rougher terrain it's always more likely that they degrade faster than their road counterparts, no need for the stainless steel there.
Important in hub design to me would be that it's easy to replace all bearings, front hub normally is quite easy, rear hub bearings normally easy as well, but sometimes, the freehub bearings are a pain in the ass. (Newmen Fade Freehub, for example is absolute pain, as you've got to get the inner bearing through where the outer bearing sits..)

So my conclussion, easy serviceability should be priority number one, prio #2 hub design with bearings as big as reasonable, helps to have them live longer (esp. offroad), prio #3 the bearings you're choosing.

Cause if you mess up with prio #1 or #2, the customer is annoyed either with how long the service takes time or that they have to do it every 6 months. Normally not much people really care about the brand of the bearings. Also ofc ceramic bearings sounds nice on the spec sheet, but in my eyes people profit more if you put in a solid steel bearing they don't have to look at even once in the lifetime of the wheelset

That's a really interesting point about the bearing fit.

Press fitting is actually a very delicate part of hub design and assembly. Even bearings with the same nominal size can have small dimensional differences between brands, so in theory, if you wanted the fit to be absolutely perfect, you'd need to machine the bearing seat in the hub shell specifically around the exact bearing you're using.

This is also one of the reasons I think bearing choice and hub tolerances shouldn't be looked at separately.

I've also seen quite a few ceramic bearings that felt rough or slightly gritty immediately after installation. My suspicion is that ceramic bearings may be more sensitive to installation damage. The ceramic balls are much harder than the steel races, so if the bearing is pressed incorrectly, or the installation load passes through the wrong part of the bearing, the steel races may be more easily damaged or distorted.

I don't know if that's the main reason yet, but it's definitely something I think is worth investigating.

If you do end up opening the rear bearing later, I'd be really interested to know what you find inside, especially whether there is corrosion, dirt contamination, race damage, or anything else that could explain the roughness.

Quote from: Pedaldancer on September 24, 2026, 04:59:18 PM
For sure any kind of dirt influences the system. It's basically grinding.
I wanted to open the failed ceramic bearings... I am very sure I didn't throw them away, but just one day after the maintenance I couldn't find them. 
For the rear I try to be better..I usually open failed units to investigate what led to the failure.
I use 2RS sealed bearings, but I can't even tell you the brand
I have a good online shop, where I just order them and they are not specified with regards to the underlying company in most cases.. i don't go for the cheapest but also not the most expensive.
For the replacement I need to check if I have the correct sizes on my stock... maybe... but as I am perfect in procrastinating it could take a bit..i hate to exchange bearings.. sometimes they are too much pressed in which makes them sticky.. and if not pressed in enough the free hub touches them and you create  a fixie unintentionally. 



Just for information, the shop where I buy all bearings (don't know how shipping is to other countries) .. they have also an amazing amount of headset bearings for super reasonable prices. If there's "ACR" in the abbreviation, I am very sure it is Acros. It has been like this several times now.
https://www.kugellager-shop.net/

I've always thought water contamination could be one of the biggest causes of bearing failure. It's probably not just the water itself, once water carries fine sand, dirt or other contaminants past the seals and into the bearing, you can immediately feel the grittiness.

What I don't know yet is whether the ceramic bearing setup itself is more sensitive to this kind of contamination, or whether the bigger factors are the seals, grease, tolerances and steel races. That's something I think is worth investigating.

The fact that your front hub has been fine after switching to good steel bearings is also very interesting. For us, long term reliability matters more than simply having "ceramic bearings" on the spec sheet.

Thanks for sharing the actual mileage and riding conditions, this kind of real world information is exactly what I'm looking for.

I'd be very interested to hear how the steel bearings hold up after you've put some more mileage on them. If you happen to know the bearing model as well, that would also be useful, since the sealing design can vary quite a lot between different bearings.

Quote from: Pedaldancer on September 23, 2026, 01:06:56 PM
Well.. my H Work hubs came with ceramic bearing.. that was just for advertisement at exhibitions (I got a color swatch which is usually shown at exhibitions)
My conclusion: i had to change the front bearings in less than a year. After replacement everything is fine at the front. And today I spinned the rear wheel in my fingers... feels like i have a pepper mill..
This is now roughly 1,5 years , every good and bad weather, cycling trough winter. I kept care of good protection from water and salt with high viscosity grease, so that's not the issue... but that's a very fast dead I need to admit.
Of course if water enters the inner it's a sudden death. (Alson know that  )
Mileage is something around 5000km. I can't tell it more precise , as I use 3 wheelsets  on that bike and didn't track it too precise.

So what to do:
I will exchange the rear also with decent steel bearings and then everything will be absolutely fine. That's how it is on the front since I changed.

That makes a lot of sense.

This is actually one of the reasons I'm looking more closely at the bearing choice for our next wheel builds.

If the goal is long term reliability rather than marginal gains, it sounds like a high quality steel bearing with good sealing may be the more sensible choice for a bicycle hub.

I'm curious what others think though, especially people who have put 10000+ km on their hubs. For those riders, what has actually failed first over the long term: the bearings, freehub, spoke hole or something else?

I'd rather optimize the wheelset around the part that actually limits its service life than spend money on something that only looks better on a spec sheet.

Quote from: Pedaldancer on September 22, 2026, 06:16:29 PM
Ceramic bearings haven't been invented for the usage in a bicycle. Less well sealed because invented for high rpm (like turbine )... it's just not the right spot in a bike. Also the very hard ceramic is more likely to damage the steel parts of the bearing during mechanic shocks.
It's just much more expensive and not even better in the used environment.

If i was a turbine... but even 100 rpm is not fast. 

Seems like a lot of people prefer steel bearings over ceramic in here. 

Quote from: Rebel_Yell on September 17, 2026, 08:43:51 AM
Steel bearing and carbon spokes.

Thanks for sharing. SR270 sounds like a great model, I've heard a lot about it. I think H-Works has already shipped a lot of SR270s. 3,000 miles is a pretty solid amount of mileage, but I'm really looking forward to seeing how it performs after 6,000 miles We're planning to get our new carbon spoke models tested by riders covering 10,000 km (6,213 miles).

By the way, does your hub come with steel or ceramic bearings? We're still a little undecided about whether to use steel or ceramic, since steel bearings last longer, while ceramic bearings seem common on performance wheelsets.

Quote from: Rebel_Yell on September 12, 2026, 05:23:06 PM
Just an update on my Zen wheelset.  Had bike serviced and they checked on the SR270 (which are H Works) hubs and they said they looked incredible. Zero dust and needed nothing but to be closed back up.

Wheels have been incredible so far! Closing in on 3000 miles on them.

Agreed. The classic star ratchet system has two moving ratchets and two springs, while the new EXP system has one ratchet fixed into the hub body.

When the freehub is spinning:

In the classic ratchet system, the ratchet is flexible, and there is a gap between the ratchet and the hub body, so vibration is not transferred to the hub body.

In the EXP-style ratchet system, vibration is transferred directly to the hub body, causing resonance, which makes the sound louder.

That's why, even though the DT Swiss 350 and 240 EXP are both from DT Swiss, the 240 EXP sounds louder and sharper than the DT Swiss 350.

Because H-Works shares the same ratchet system as the DT Swiss 350, their sound is similar — low and deep.

The Elitewheels hub's ratchet system is similar to the 240 EXP's, so they sound similar, but Elitewheels sounds even louder and sharper than the 240 EXP.

I created an image so we can see the difference more clearly.

Quote from: fhill on September 12, 2026, 04:17:03 AM
Regarding the sound, I guess there's the general difference between the "classic" two ratchet set, like DT Swiss Ratchet, there's also already a little difference in sound to the EXP system, but if I understood correct, in the Elitewheels, the ratchet is already part of the freehub?

Hi,

Actually, you won't need to service the hub as long as no dust or water gets into the internals — you probably just need to open it up regularly to check for dust.

I think you describe the sound of the hubs accurately, and in a very interesting way. I've compared several hubs side by side — DT Swiss 350, 240, Elitewheels, H-Works and others. DT Swiss and H-Works sound similar: their tone is lower and deeper. The Elitewheels hubs really do sound like "screaming." It might not be proper to say this, but I personally like the sound of H-Works' traditional ratchet system.

Quote from: miwe35 on September 11, 2026, 02:21:17 AM
Hey,
until now I have just opened the hub in May after Traka. I put new grease into the hubs. But usually I do not service them often. I have nerver serviced my DT Swiss 350 hub for my MTB and it still runs like on day one.

Getting used to the sound takes a bit of time. When I ride with friends they always complain that they are too loud. I would say it is okay if you get used to, but the hub is more kind of a louder hub. I would say the sound is comparable to a DT Swiss 240 but as a "cheap version". The DT has a kind of "crisp" sound and on the other hand the Elite hub has more kind of an "screaming" sound. It is hard to describe but I would say the DT Swiss 240 hubs are loud but the sound is a unique "good" sound, almost like a sign of quality, whereas the Elite Hubs are just loud...

Yeah you can contact and ask me anytime!!

Kind regards
Miwe

Hi, thanks for sharing — good to see that. It's probably the first feedback on Elitewheels hubs; I was expecting to see more, since they have a larger presence in the market.

Can I ask a couple of things?

1. How often do you service the hub?

2. Do you like the sound of the hub?

Regarding the testing, I'll send you a private message — please have a look when you get a chance.

Quote from: miwe35 on September 10, 2026, 02:13:08 AM
Hey,
I am riding the Elitewheels Edge 3.0 all year long. I have had no issues with these wheels. Once a spoke loosened but nothing with the hub itself.
Since this year I use the Edge 3.0 for every condition like long hard gravel roads (f.e. Traka 560) and also for other long distance races on gravel or road. I would say this year around 8000km just on the Elite husb and no problems at all.
I am a tall rider 193 cm with around 92kg.

I would be interested into testing a wheelset, please let me know if I can help you somehow.

Best regards
miwe

I'm considering using the SR308 for our future gravel wheelset. H-Works said the HW321 is built to last， you can pass it on to your grandson， but it's pretty heavy in today's market.

And yes, I think the traditional ratchet system would be easier to service. Sound is another factor, though，H-Works sounds more like DT Swiss. The Elitewheels hub is much louder and sharper than H-Works. Elitewheels' hub supplier said this is due to their hub design: the ratchet directly contacts the hub body, so it can't be changed.

I'm not sure if I've got this right, but a rider who likes a quiet hub usually dislikes a loud one, whereas a rider who likes a loud hub should also be fine with a quieter one. So a quiet hub is probably the safer choice for most riders, right?

Quote from: Sander2177 on September 09, 2026, 11:19:55 AM

Yep H-Works have 3 steel spoke gravel/road  hubs

I remember the video H-Works sent me of them submerging the hub in water leaving it for a period of time cannot remember how long and then removing end caps etc to show they were still dry not super scientific but good enough for me I'm contemplating and other winter wheels build I will probably use this hub again if I do.

SR318 24/24 spoke 290g
SR330 24/24 spoke 326g
SR308 28/28 spoke 301g
And they also have now a carbon spoke hub HW321 21/21 336g 2:1 laced.


All I know is I was speaking to someone yesterday and they mentioned Elite hubs use a conical ratchet where H-Works use the more traditional ratchet which would I imagine be easier to service if people are concerned with that.

Oh thanks, sealing performance is definitely something we need to consider, given all the wet and muddy conditions out there.

I'll also check with the H-Works guys. Carol from H-Works mentioned that they take sealing into account when choosing bearing types.

I actually sent a wheelset to Sander2177 for long-term testing. He owns so many wheelsets that his feedback as a rider carries real weight. He was the one who found the bearing issue, so once the hub model is finalized, I think I'll send him a new wheelset to test.

Quote from: gribs on September 09, 2026, 10:20:53 AM
I'm guessing from their naming conventions they're just a slightly heavier version. Sander2177 on here had had them suggested as a well sealed unit for British winter so I copied his build. They appear to be as well built and sealed as the Hope or DT Swiss hubs I have on my mountain bikes.

Thanks for confirming – M330 at ~95kg system weight is good data for us to know.

I'd actually be keen to see how those hubs hold up long-term  , so if you wouldn't mind, please keep us updated here if anything happens (or doesn't!) down the line.

Cheers!

Quote from: aerog33k on September 09, 2026, 08:27:07 AM
Yes you are right, I should probably give the hubs some love. I mostly focus on my road setup so the MTB tends to get left without much care 
It is indeed the M330 and my system weight is around 95 kg.

Hi, is the SR318 a similar model to the SR308 on their website? A gravel model? It's on our list as well. Looking forward to more updates from you in the future if you'd be willing to share

Muddier races will be a tough test for the hubs – definitely curious to see how they hold up!

Quote from: gribs on September 09, 2026, 07:05:46 AM
I've got H-Works SR318 hubs with CX-ray spokes which were built into a wheelset last October by Zen that are still running perfectly after ~3k km for UK road miles. I'm ~100kg. I'm considering using them for cyclocross this winter for the muddier races.

Hi, thanks for sharing – that's an impressive track record across so many brands.

Regarding your question: the failure was on a prototype from a new hub supplier. We've worked with DT Swiss and Taiwan-based hub manufacturers for years, but this new one was meant for our carbon-spoke build. The issue was a bearing defect on the prototype wheels, which caused wheel play after installation on the frame. The supplier claimed it was a bearing defect specific to that batch.

This experience really made me realize how critical supplier reliability is – quality control matters just as much as hub design. At this point, I'd prefer to work with OEM factories that already have large volume real-world deployments and proven reliability. That's why I've narrowed it down to the two main hub suppliers in China. I've also visited H-Works' factory, and their quality control seems quite precise. Still, I want to hear from end users before committing – firsthand data is the best data.

Quote from: aerog33k on September 09, 2026, 05:43:49 AM
I've ran H-works hubs with CX-ray on my XC mtb and they've been great, I have used them for everything between gravel to even some downhill tracks. Had them for 3 years (although I primarily use my road bike), haven't serviced the hubs at all and I have no complaints.

Appreciate the feedback – 3 years without maintenance is tough on hubs

If I may ask, which model were you running? Was it the M330? Also, what's your system weight roughly?

Quote from: aerog33k on September 09, 2026, 05:43:49 AM
I've ran H-works hubs with CX-ray on my XC mtb and they've been great, I have used them for everything between gravel to even some downhill tracks. Had them for 3 years (although I primarily use my road bike), haven't serviced the hubs at all and I have no complaints.