Core strength will give you up eventually, and not all riders put 400 watts for hours to hold you ip to your position so you won’t overload your hands. Well that’s for your average fred anyway. If you constantly do 400+ watts then slam that saddle forward. Else, try to find a nice balance between holding your position up for hours without compromising the front end of your body which is the arms. As I’ve said, I also had my saddle far forward as possible. It feels great for the first few hours then eventually, my body hurts all over. My fitter then found a nice balance with my fore-aft and it did wonders a lot. Not saying my saddle is in between or all the way back, it is still in front with 0 offset seatpost, just not slammed all the way forward. The actual danger of getting your saddle way forward is the control on the descents. I am still putting my ass back of the saddle when there’s a 90 degree descent because fuck going on front of your saddle on that, I ain’t doing that even in a race lol.

What I am trying to say is, find a nice balance on your fore-aft. It may work for you or the other riders, but it ain’t for everyone. If your zone 2 is a nice 280 watts then I think you’ll benefit on slammed forward saddle. Else, a nice balance would be much better.


And you provided an example that was already banned by UCI. I remember that there was so many freds in my country who did that and they ended up crashing. Also saw a lot of accident vids because they try to ride like Froome. As Colby said, don’t copy the pros position, we ain’t pro.

I don't think I remember a single crash in the super tuck. Much like a lot of the UCI's "safety" rules, it's not really about safety.

And my point about the super tuck is that they are so much further forward than you're getting with a progressive fit. The super tuck is safe, and that's 20cm further forward than my position. Your claim that a progressive fit is dangerous is wildly inaccurate. And that's proven by the super tuck which is even further forward. If you think a forward saddle is dangerous, that's a skill issue, not inherent with the position. The position in itself isn't any more dangerous or compromising than a rearward position. The position doesn't make one safer than the other, the rider does. If a rider makes the forward position unsafe, the same rider will be unsafe with a rearward position. What's unsafe is going beyond your personal skill level.

The thing with the progressive fit is that it's still pretty rearward. You're at most, equal with the BB. I'm still 5cm behind. You seem to think this fit puts you in front of the BB or somehow shifts your weight forward enough to make it unstable, neither of which are true. You're still behind the BB. It's more about opening your hip angle to allow higher power output and more comfort. Like any fit change it'll take some getting used to. But to say it's unsafe or dangerous is just wrong. You're fear mongering.

So, considering a typical road fit, how did you guys adjust the bar position as you moved the saddle forward if at all? One would assume you also bring it forward buy maybe that's actually a bad idea in terms of shifting weights on the hands / triceps fatigue.

I increased my stem by 20mm, and probably should have gone 30mm longer. Dropped 1cm spacer. Saddle was raised so that the BB to saddle surface was the same. The best way to think of it is taking your old fit, then rotating it around the BB (gif below). It's a little more weight on the hands but not much. Does require a little more core strength but again, not a lot.

Exaggerated but shows the basic idea: https://imgur.com/tuyRbeX

I thought the weight on the hands would be too much but even 6 hour rides I'm fine.

With the topic of seat setback/fore-aft, don't just put your saddle as forward as you can as it can be very dangerous. Here's a very nice read regarding setting your saddle fore-aft position.

Pretty dated article. TT and Tri guys have their saddle way further forward. They don’t seem to have any issues. If anything, since I slammed saddle all the way forward I’ve had less discomfort than ever. Opens up the hip angle. More power, more comfort. I think more people should at least try it.

A few caveats before I get started:

1. My approach to overhauling my bike fit was completely janky and unprofessional. It took 4-5 weeks of frustratingly making small adjustments to finally land on a setup that felt like "Hey I think we are finally on to something..." -  I would not recommend doing this without a professional bike fitter unless you plan to go full idiot mode like myself. There's gonna be days where everything just feels completely wrong. From a time wasted perspective it would have been cheaper to just go see a fitter.

2. Regardless of how I look on the bike from an outsider's perspective, how actually feel on the bike now has been night and day. I expect folks to have a strong opinion against all of this. And that's totally cool. There's always room to learn.

My starting point was based on @hubba @Sakizashi @Dark17 advice from earlier in this thread. In fact, I read Steve Hogg/Brian Mcguigan blog as was recommended. What a fantastic deep dive. The blog post really gave me the foundation and logic to methodically change stuff around. Even if I wasn't perfect.

What did I change?
-Moved my cleats back about 8-10mm. Where the ball of foot is rather than in front of it. 
-Moved my saddle forward around 8-10mm
-Lowered my saddle about 2mm
-Kept the cleat shim on my right leg (leg discrepency)
-Removed my insole wedges from each shoe. (Originally due to foot pronation)

What were the effects?
-Smoother pedal delivery and higher cadence in Zone 3 and above.
-Significantly improved power delivery
-Increased foot stability
-No more occasional or random foot hot spots
-No more inner thighs rubbing the top tube or seatpost
-Hip angle more open
-Sit bones FINALLY sitting sqaure and stable on the saddle. On the exact part of the saddle where the sit bones are supposed to sit. Not the nose   

Overall I'm about 90-95% satisfied with my results. Somehow all of this also fixed my foot pronation issues without needing my insole wedges anymore. Including no more "jumper's knee" fatigue on my left leg from being a one-foot jumper in college - Perhaps having more foot and hip stability improved everything up the stack. Could small tweaks be made? Of course. But being able to feel super planted and stable now on 4-5 hour rides without any small hiccups appearing around hour 3 has been splendid. I really want to thank everyone in here for your help.

Have a great weekend.

Slowly joining the dark side? Sounds like you had some big changes in fit and fit philosophy since your original post here where you wanted to push your saddle further back. I was similar. It was such a weird thing to slam the saddle forward. I moved mine about 4cm forward in total. Yes, 4cm. But it’s been the best thing I’ve ever done in my cycling career. More power. More comfort. It took some time getting adjusted but I’m fully on board with the progressive geometry.

Does anyone know where I can get best quality clone SL9 with life time warranty from trusted seller. 
I also want a clone that is made in Taiwan as I see some are made there and has same quality with good QC as SL9 and stiffness the same .       
My budget is  f@ck all $0usd so if you can help let message me! 

Buying an SL9 clone is smarter than wasting your money on the real one. But sure enough there will be suckers eating up the marketing for no gain over the SL8 or SL7. But hey, at least it says S-Works so you can show off that you have money to burn.

I’ve used two of the ZTTO lightweight cassettes. And the problem is lack of consistent quality. The 11-34t version I got was terrible. Right from the start it never shifted well. I spent an hour indexing it with my Di2 and when I fixed the shifting on one side of the cassette it screwed up the other side. So when I could get up shifting crisp, the downshifting would suffer. Ended up returning it.

But…I have a 11-36t version that’s great. Near perfect shifting. I love it. It’s like 150g lighter than 105. Zero complaints whatsoever. If I could guarantee I got another one like this I’d buy more. So I guess just make sure they have a return policy. I actually need another 11-36t for the gravel bike so might pick one up.

I kinda disagree : the LIGHTCARBON looks much more aero. More aggressive.

Identical in terms of specs as it fits 40c tires apparently

Maybe a bit heavier than the FRAY but… for 1/4th of the price it is a no brainer

Yea, I actually don't like the aero aggressive look. If it had a round seatpost, that would be a big positive and I'd probably like the Lightcarbon more. But apart from price (which is not to be understated), I don't see why you would choose the LC over the Fray. Again, the price is a big part and should be part of the decision. It's just not part of my decision so there's nothing really that sets it apart from the Fray.

I guess put another way, if the price is the only differentiating factor, I'll go with the Fray. I was just hoping for a round seatpost.