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Messages - bioluminescent

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I've had the pleasure of riding an Emonda ALR and a Gen 8 Madone now. Even as a smaller rider where the frame matters more as a percentage of aero or weight or whatever, there was no way to look at my ride data and tell the difference between the alloy not aero bike and the WT race bike. You take that from 20-22mph to like 28mph, and yes, there is now a measurable difference, but it's not even 5% and still within the error of my ability to test things on a loop.

Really great point that the marginal gins are going to be outside our means of testing. I still like to think that you could tell major difference in ride quality between a more budget Alu, and an all out race bike. I own an older AL Domane, it's a great bike, but not something that eggs me on to sprint for the county line with my buddies. The issue is ride dynamics are really subjective and not easily quantifiable. I feel like there could still be improvement in ride quality over our classic lightcarbons and yishuns, which is why I started looking at replicas.

The idea of passing a fake as real just puts a bad taste in my mouth. I agree that second and third owners are probably going to be a lot less honest then the people on this forum...

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This topic is dangerous to discuss for me, mainly because I oppose replicas / counterfeit bikes. I have seen more than a few of them attempt to be passed off as the real thing, including in secondhand sales. Creators shouldn't have their IP ripped off--and that includes brands. Counterfeiting is not a legitimate form of protest or artistic impression. I also question where the money goes and what level of engineering goes into these frames when the objective is to make a looks-like copy rather than a product that stands up to use. Further, a lot of these sellers tend to come and go. All in all, it's a risk I wouldn't take on a frame.

With that out of the way. Here is the second disclaimer: I am about to engage in some armchair / principles-based engineering, which is never high-quality commentary. Generally speaking, the external shape of the structure will have more influence than the wall thickness and layup used on stiffness and strength. Square-like tubes are also easier to make stiff in a specific direction than round ones. Complex aero shapes present a problem to model, and companies will try to do a lot with the layup, but it's very much trying to optimize a tube shape that, from the outset, doesn't make for a good double triangle-based bike. Round tubes are light for their stiffness, are easy to make predictably because of the lack of corners in the mold, and are a relatively simple / known problem to work with. The SL8 has an aero-ish front triangle and a round tube-based rear triangle. The Aethos is a round tube bike. If you want a bike that is more likely to have a great ride feel, the answer is to go with a bike that uses mostly round tubes or a mix of round tubes in the rear triangle and square ones in the front triangle. The engineers are more likely to get that right than a design like the Canyon Aeroad.

My $0.02 is that if you like the Aethos look for another round tube bike. There are plenty of open molds (there is an ICAN) and Chinese branded frames (like the Bigrock climbing frame) that use primarily round tubes.

I agree the ethics of a replica frame are definitely questionable at best. As you pointed out, from an engineering standpoint the shape determines a lot of the frame properties. Assuming the replica got the shapes fairly correct, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to hope the second moment of area would be similar, even if they use worse materials and their layup isn't perfect. I'm a mechanical engineering student so I'm really curious how well the design transfers over to replicas, purely in terms of performance. I'm taking a design for strength and stiffness course this next quarter, so maybe I'll have a better insight in about 3 months LoL.

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Hi everyone,
I'm a long time lurker, so sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

I recently watched patliean1's SL8 video and it seems like there's a pretty major discrepancy in ride feel between open mold frames and high end western brands. My own experience borrowing a legit S-works aethos has led me to believe the same thing.

I've been wondering if people have experience with replica frames and how they stack up to the real thing. I realize reps are a bit contentious around here but I have no desire to pass it off as the real thing. I just wonder if reps might be the best bang for the buck (they're at least close enough in shape to get some of the aero benefits to the real frames). If, for the sake of discussion, a lightcarbon LCR017 is 70% as good as an SL8, is a replica maybe 80-90% as good for about the same price?

I've seen a few replica factors floating around and it seems like most people have a fairly positive experience. I've searched here and haven't really found any supersix or tarmac reps.

Just curious what everyone thinks!

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