Quote from: zilcho on March 04, 2025, 10:26:50 AM
I believe the geometry complicates this solution. A combination of less than ideal ST and HT angles, reach, boost rear axle, and Q-factor, maybe some other features as well. The few I've seen were geared towards bike packing, which could work, but anyone trying to make a modern MTB tire gravel bike seemed to be dissuaded. Modern hardtails and the most modern, cutting edge gravel frames are areas that Chinese manufacturers have not moved to, and honestly are pretty niche markets even in the West.

Do you mind explaining what you mean by ST and HT angles and boost rear axle i'm new to a lot of this. I understand the concept of having adequate stack/reach in the context of a bike fit (being comfortable on the bike), but I don't understand how other aspects of geometry impact ride quality or experience.

Quote from: Scott1234 on March 03, 2025, 07:10:46 PM
The 3T Extrema uses Sram dub wide. More of a one-off frame. Maybe a similar frame could be made by Chinese manufacturers, but it's basically introducing a whole new bike category between gravel and mountain bike. Buying parts would be frustrating since "gravel crankset" and the thousands of results, don't fit.

The Yoeleo G21 only clears 53mm tires and has interference issues between chainrings and the frame, leading to buyer frustration. I did a quick search for Peak Torque, good channel, and when he tried to fit his crankset on and it didn't fit, he called the frame "dogshit". Yes he came around to liking it, after getting it to work.

Gravel bikes are based on road bikes, so 700c tires will max out around 50mm. There's a whole question whether we should all support more one-offs like Sram Dub Wide, to give us more preceisely what we want, or stick to established standards.

It's an interesting discussion because rather than Sram Dub Wide, mountain bikes are just a bit wider than gravel, so are a good component set, and actually cheaper than gravel parts. So what we want is mtb frames to adopt a more traditional triangle shape and rider position used by gravel bikes. Which is what the Salsa Cutthroat does, and a lot of steel touring bikes too.

While that is nice, for most gravel bikes, manufacturers have been keeping gravel bikes frames oriented to gravel bike parts, on the basis that they both fall under 'road' category. Paved road and gravel road. But also, sticking to road standards is sneaky as parts cost more and make more profit. For example, the invention of GRX. Or how gravel bikes don't use post mount brakes, when they worked fine. But requiring new 'gravel and road' flat mount, allows Shimano and others to use the exact same parts but charge more money, for a smaller niche market. More profit, for awhile, until the Aliexpress companies catch up and make parts that are just as good for less money.

That said, I could have been more polite, true @serge_K. Sorry. If you want to run wide tires, get one of these frames that clear 50mm, and fit a set of 650b wheels. Then pay attention to tire size and research some wider tires in the 2.2-2.4" range that are a bit taller than wide, and you're good to go. The bikes look awesome configured this way too.

So would it make more sense to get a MTB frame, install drop bars and a rigid fork?

I'm interested in building something like this as well. Lauf Seigla fits the bill!

Personally I found TPU tubes to be VERY fragile during installation and didn't work well when installing difficult to mount tires (cough gp5000 cough). I think I accidentally busted a couple when using tire levers, but never had an issue with latex. Having said that I carry TPU tubes in my saddle bags just in case because of their size and weight, but I would prefer latex or tubeless for the "daily"

Quote from: BalticSea on February 11, 2024, 01:58:14 PM
Farsport Hyper are 30mm external/24mm internal, available in wide variety of depths, can be specced with different hubs, steel or carbon spokes.

I have the 50mm DT 240 hubs & Sapim CX, no regrets so far, also I was able to customize nipples and no access holes for super easy tubeless setup. 

Anybody know if the firmness levels in the Aliexpress saddles are the same. I love the shape/look of my Ryet, but starting to desire something more firm.

Quote from: patliean1 on January 26, 2024, 09:30:14 AM
10. VeloBuild VB-168
9. Dengfu R12 (harshest on the list)
8. TanTan X38
7. VeloBuild VB-177
6. Yoeleo R12
5. 2022 Allez Sprint (most versatile)
4. Yishun R086-D
3. Tavelo Attack (lightest frameset)
2. Giant Propel Advanced Pro
1. Winspace T1500 (best value)

Notes:
-The Dengfu R12 is SUPER stiff. Stiffer than the 168, 177, X38, and R12. Perfect if responsiveness is important to you. However, even with 28c tires it's tough to live with everyday. Although  I've done 160km rides on it LoL. Dengfu discontinued it I think.

-I'm planning to rebuild my X38 this season. Originally I had to donor the SRAM eTap groupset for my Yishun build. It's a great looking frame, stands out among other Chinese builds. Makes for a good coffee ride bike, but it could not be my only road bike option. I just found the overall ride dynamics to be neutral and somewhat clumsy, even after initially thinking it was a super stiff ride. YMMV.

-Had I bought my Tavelo Attack before my Giant Propel...I probably would not have bought the Propel. The Tavelo offers 9/10 the dynamics of the Propel for half the price. However, the extra 10% is still noticeable. Having the support of a local bike shop/Giant dealer and essentially a "no questions asked" warranty policy has come in handy for me.

-The biggest disappointment has been both the VB-168 and the Yoeleo R12. The 168 (my particular frame) is a noodle. But the geometry works so well for me. Yoeleo advertises the R12 has a race bike. It is not. Big brand quality paint, 32-34c tire clearance, and great fit and finish. Packaging is some of the best in the biz, better than Giant and Specialized. But it truly is an endurance bike. For the price of the R12 you could almost buy a Yishun/LC frame and a set of wheels from Leon/Yuanan which is a far more compelling offering.

Hey Pat, can you talk a bit on why Elves didn't make the cut at all? I was pretty interested in the Falath, but ultimately decided the geometry didn't work for me. That being said I like how they're setup with a distributor in the US, feels more Winspace esque than some of the other b2b brands.