Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - trcycling

Pages: [1] 2 3
1
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Wheeltop EDS GeX
« on: November 20, 2024, 08:10:23 PM »
Quote from: eeney on November 20, 2024, 02:30:03 PM
These are the reasons I went Wheeltop, I intend to upgrade one wheelset to 12sp and leave the other as 11sp.  I hoping that wheeltop, in the future, add a wheel/bike profile feature where you can setup different indexing for different wheels and then swap between easily.

With this flexiblity the Wheeltop isn't just cheaper, but it's also technical ahead of Shimano and Sram..... in this specific area. Downside of flexible configuration of indexing and gearing is that it can take a lot of work to get it perfect - as I am finding with my GeX ATM, some learning on my part. So for Sram and Shimano, if they want a great customer experience and minimize support calls, having it 'just work' Apple style is important for the wider consumer market.

An excellent example.

The setup issue you mention is one thing that gives me a moment's hesitation with the Wheeltop. Only per-sprocket tuning is powerful but a challenge. I'm hoping that normally it's just basically right in the first place.  The SRAM model of only a meta setting works ok. But if you have any sort of glitch for whatever reason, there is no way to adjust it. LTWOO's approach is pretty good IF you read the instructions  ;D   I did not read carefully and started tuning each sprocket. Yeah, no. They do it right and you are supposed to set it on a mid sprocket and only tune the separate ones if needed.  But I don't see a profile capability like you ask for there either. (It's a good idea)

2
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Wheeltop EDS GeX
« on: November 20, 2024, 02:05:43 PM »
Quote from: eeney on November 19, 2024, 11:53:46 PM
Yeah, I was close to buying the Sram outfit, but went with wheeltop. https://thebrig.com.au/products/sram-mullet-upgrade-kit-x01-force-etap-shifters?Title=Default+Title.

Only time will tell if it was the correct decision, at the moment I'm still working through the initial gear indexing which has been slow and frustrating.... note that the frustration may be from my lack of skills and learning as I go, I've only ever fit and tuned mechanical before.

I clicked through and was like "uh, that's a grand, not that cheap". Then I noticed the .au  :)  That IS a good deal. If only SRAM would support at least an 11s alternate configuration (it's only software).  :(   This is one of the key things for the Wheeltop and LTWOO options. They aren't forcing a full 12s upgrade but can be installed on an existing (and hardly obsolete) 11s cassette and wheelset.  By the time I replace a 10-50 cassette (2 in my case with two wheelsets), the price goes WAY up for the full upgrade. And one of the wheelsets has a freehub that doesn't support 12 so another wheel. Ugh.

So for a fresh build, I'd be looking at what the shipping and import costs from Australia to me are. But as an upgrade, it sadly doesn't work.

3
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Wheeltop EDS GeX
« on: November 19, 2024, 12:35:31 PM »
Quote from: gloscherrybomb on November 19, 2024, 02:52:15 AM
Does anyone have both wheeltop and ltwoo? I'm swapping out ltwoo for wheeltop and would like to leave the ltwoo calipers (makes life easier). The ltwoo with the wheeltop calipers will then go on my winter bike.

Any issues doing this? Anyone with both have a view on which calipers are better?

An indirect answer to your question: I'm running Shimano calipers with LTWOO (because they LTWOO ones wouldn't fit on my frame with their weird bracket). They work well. I've also read that Wheeltop work fine with Shimano (or other oil based) calipers. In fact, in China some sellers offer a kit without calipers (not the US store).  So, I see no reason why it wouldn't work.

That said, I'm wondering how the swap would be easier than moving over fully? Internal routing issues?

4
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Wheeltop EDS GeX
« on: November 01, 2024, 08:17:05 PM »
Oh, and I see that they bought Rotor. Interesting for long term viability and completeness of groupset eventually. I've heard that it gives them US and EU distribution as well.

5
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Wheeltop EDS GeX
« on: November 01, 2024, 07:32:20 PM »
First a disclaimer: I don't own one of these (yet?) but am doing some research and it seems to be evolving in interesting ways, at least for the US market.

1) You can now buy via a US store https://wheeltop.us/products/wheeltop-eds-gex?variant=49584537895227. The price isn't quite as low as I saw on AliExpress a month ago but it is with warranty, a return option and free shipping. (Sorry to readers outside the US

2) Since the early videos and other reviews, they are now offering a double configuration of cage length and lever material. So you can get 51t compatible or not and/or CF levers or not. Cage doesn't change pricing but levers do at $40 (not bad if you have to have CF levers  :) )

3) There appears to be growing confirmation that the battery pack CAN be changed out. Not field swapped but replaced if there is an issue. Still haven't seen the part, but the fact that the mount is there and the latest instructions refer to doing so is encouraging. (I don't care how good it is, batteries fail and/or wear out and not being able to replace in any way was a dealbreaker for me)

4) The most important thing to ME is that it supports an 11s configuration in addition to 12s (and more). This adds a lot of flexibility for retrofit. SRAM and Shimano electronic systems demand 12s setups. Since I'm putting it on a bike that has two wheelsets, each with 11s 50t cassettes, that's a huge extra cost (two expensive cassettes and one wheelset doesn't support a 12s freehub so...) to go even a Rival AXS setup.  FWIW, I'm not finding a Rival shifter, GX MTB RD AXS setup for less than $800 just for those parts.

For some context,

I have 12s 2x Force D1 on a road bike and like it a lot. (And I stole the full groupset for $1k a year ago as a closeout) If I were building from scratch and didn't have to deal with 11s legacy, I'd be happy to build with that or the new Rival. I'm assuming the MTB RD works well given the experience they have. So no complaints other than price

I've also been running LTWOO eGR this season on the gravel bike. Same ability to support 11s and at the time was half the price of Wheeltop's current price so worth a punt.  The good: Setup is fairly simple in general. BUT the calipers don't mount quite the same as Shimano and require an adapter plate that wouldn't fit on my frame. Some Shimano calipers fit instead though and work well with the LTWOO levers. Also, because LTWOO uses a Di2 power model (battery in the frame), and the frame I'm installing it on is not set up that way, I've had to frankenbike the setup.  Battery status is a pain to monitor because the integration to the head unit is faulty (always at 'critical') and it is easy to fail to charge due to weak magnets and strange indicator lights. If you're interested, I've written more here https://trbike.blogspot.com/2024/05/ltwoo-egr-results-writeup.html

I'd love to read from someone who's actually installed the Wheeltop.




6
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: October 25, 2024, 01:53:15 PM »
Quote from: courdacier on October 25, 2024, 01:04:38 PM
the moment you decide to make it replaceable you need to add thickness to the screw-on cap, a rubber gasket and additional assembly steps at the plant. this way you can make it smaller, flimsier and also not have to do a 5-yr durability study.

Fair enough in theory. But in practice, the Wheeltop pack seems to be of comparable size to the SRAM removable packs. (not certain as I haven't seen in person). And more significantly, you forfeit the reassurance of being able to carry a spare. With AXS, I can easily keep a spare in my pack or swap batteries on a 2x if I run out while riding. Sure, they last long enough that it shouldn't happen if you pay attention unless you're in the boondocks for days. But in reality, it does and people are concerned about the possibility. Shimano's Di2 approach (and the LTWOO eGR) handles this with a large battery so it's really unlikely you will wear it out while in use. It doesn't protect from user error though.

To me, if the claims of 20k shifts per charge are accurate, the fixed, small battery approach on the Wheeltop seems like a good compromise. But I wouldn't trust it until that lifespan is verified. I don't get 20k shifts out of AXS or LTWOO. The spec is also not revealing the drain of simply existing. Keeping the radios alive (when they are) and the motions sensors (to turn it on) all the time.  IMO, that standby power drain is non-trivial in the total charge cycle. It seems like the reality of these electronic systems is XXX shifts and/or a month(ish) between charges whichever comes first and a tradeoff. Totally acceptable performance, but important to realize that time is a factor as well.

7
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: October 11, 2024, 06:11:03 PM »
Quote from: AndrewSpearns on October 11, 2024, 05:50:34 PM
See the photo below. Will try to get the video uploaded this weekend. The 626RS cost me $3 each at a local bearing ship.

Thanks for posting the picture. Made me go look up bearing code differences :-)

Seems like this might be worth doing as preventive maintenance. How easily do the bearings slip in/out? Is it a fingers job or would I need the right drifts?


8
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: October 10, 2024, 01:27:13 PM »
Quote from: AndrewSpearns on October 10, 2024, 01:15:31 PM
I completed a 115km back country gravel event in Corner Brook, Newfoundland last week which was on terrain everywhere from tame to knarly, with some rain, mud, puddles, water crossings...

My RD didn't suffer from water ingress, but at the end of the event my watts were not making sense. When I got home, found that the two jockey wheels were completely locked up. They use 626Z bearings, which have metal shields and are not sealed like their 626RS counterparts.

I've sourced some bearings at the local Wajax but also have a request sent to LTWOO to warranty the jockey wheels. I've got maybe 1000km on this group since May.


By chance, did you take pictures?

9
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: October 04, 2024, 12:47:32 AM »
Quote from: Rapac on October 03, 2024, 06:36:03 AM
Thanks for the answers. That what I thought like for every normal electronic system. But sometimes, brands blocks the use of other capacity batteries (phones for exemple). Good to know, I'll go for a big capacity Vapcell then.

Bought my groupset by designer 80, they sent photos of packing before shipping. Nice thing to do.

Yeah, that kind of lockout depends on circuitry in the pack. In this case, they are providing the pack that you use (the tube with circuit board) and you add the simple 'dumb' battery inside. They don't have direct access to information about the battery itself (they could infer it perhaps)

10
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: October 04, 2024, 12:45:48 AM »
Quote from: highwind on October 03, 2024, 04:55:24 AM
Perhaps anybody actually owning this groupset can answer the following question:

At the end of the Trace Velo review of the prototype eGR, Luke mentions, that the default shifting configuration is on the two shifting levers on the right hand side (one for up, one for down - classic shimano-style) but it also can be changed within the app to be on the left hand side aswell.
Is it also possibly to configure it as SRAM-eTap-style shifting, so lever on the right hand side does upshifting, lever on the left hand side does downshifting (or the other way round)?

Very sadly, no. You can swap sides as you note. But as yet, it cannot be reconfigured. I've exchanged emails with LTWOO on this twice now and the first time they suggested that configuration options are in the queue. But it's been a half year with no updates so...

The second time (when I made specific suggestions of how it would be nice to reconfigure), I got a response that 'SRAM style' might run into patent issues.  I replied that they could just let us pick what each button does. Then they aren't shipping with a conflicting pattern.  ;). No response to that suggestion

So at the moment, the other switches are just backups or potentially future-proofing for a 2x configuration. 

If you'd like to suggest something, send a note to sales@lwtoo.com. They are reasonably responsive in my experience. (don't tell them I sent you)


11
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: October 04, 2024, 12:41:14 AM »
Quote from: amacal1 on October 02, 2024, 11:57:09 PM
The battery capacity is the battery capacity. If it's greater than 800mAh, then it will last longer. There is nothing I know of that tracks the battery usage and shuts it off after a certain usage threshold has been exceeded.

You should be mindful, though, that the 'stated' capacity of some cells may be... exaggerated.

Worth noting that I believe the variability in batteries is what makes the 'gauge' in the app rather inconsistent. I assume it is calibrated for whatever LTWOO ships. Other batteries will have different performance curves (even better ones are not necessarily better for this purpose) and thus show a different % in the app.  A bit maddening the inconsistency of burndown I've seen. But if you charge regularly before you run out (still weeks), it shouldn't cause actual issue

(see separate post coming)

12
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: LTWOO eGR
« on: September 17, 2024, 03:22:44 PM »
Quote from: amacal1 on September 17, 2024, 02:23:35 PM
Yes, the jockey wheels. I was able to remove the wheel from the frame, but the bearing inside of the wheel was a closed, cartridge bearing. The bearing was rough, not just the wheel in the frame. Despite being a closed cartridge, I held my grease dispenser right up against the seal and managed to squeeze a tiny bit through the gaps. I could even see some watery/yucky discharge ooze out the other side. After that, it rolled much more smoothly. I can't imagine it's going to hold up very well for long, though. This was only for one wheel, the other seemed to be perfectly fine.

The good news is that jockey wheels are generally pretty interchangeable. You should be able to find a replacement without going back to LTWOO (Half of my bikes have non-OEM jockey wheels anyway because they look cool :-) )

13
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: GRX 820 or LTWOO eGR?
« on: September 13, 2024, 11:23:12 AM »
Quote from: rockerplates.de on September 13, 2024, 01:04:29 AM
the easiest way for shimano to react would be to open the software to the same standard as the chinese approaching it. open di2 two both worlds 11- and 12 speed would be a game changer...

Neither Shimano nor SRAM are going to do that any time soon. Being able to support different 'speeds' is truly trivial. They've probably done it in testing. But it is against their business model. They want to force full upgrades of drivelines. Mechanical systems at least have real differences between the derailleur parts. But electronic shift doesn't have that. It is also why Shimano continues to offer an array of groupset lines below 105 that differentiate themselves partly on the different 'speeds'.

Shimano is showing an interesting turn of late with CUES having some more flexibility and compatibility. But I believe that is strictly driven by a desire to reduce SKUs in their inventory (costs) not consumer flexibility.

This is a big reason I'm hoping LTWOO and Wheeltop (and Sensah maybe) have some success. They are using this flexibility as an entry point even though not that many people will actually need it (I say that knowing that the 11-12s gap is probably widely used like I am with an 11s bike getting eshift that otherwise isn't possible with Big S brands.). I'm not pooping on Big S and the other Big S. I have and like their product. But I don't like their product segmentation and pricing strategies and hope to break a hole.


14
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: GRX 820 or LTWOO eGR?
« on: September 12, 2024, 04:16:40 PM »
Quote from: jonathanf2 on September 12, 2024, 02:05:30 PM
Yeah, I think that's a big failure on LTwoo's part. My ER9 groupsets are working solid and I would probably get an EGR as well, but I definitely wouldn't recommend them to anyone who isn't bike competent. Also it seems 80 Design Store seems like the only seller that's taking personal responsibility for any issues. It's a shame too, because LTwoo whittled away being a viable alternative to the big brands by not offering a clear customer service path. I think reputation wise, they've taken a big hit internationally.

They should take a similar approach to Wheeltop. They could sell direct and say they will handle warranty issues only for groupsets bought from them. They can still have third party sellers who could sell groupsets at a lower cost, but those sellers would be responsible for covering warranty issues.
 

Good observation and recommendation. I'm rooting for LTWOO here. They clearly have at least a "good enough" first try with the electronic groupsets. And possibly better (verdict still pending IMO). The price/performance point they are hitting blows away the big three (well, sadly 2. something since Campy is a bit of an outlier lately) and will hopefully provide some downward pressure on pricing. But, if they don't get their go-to-market strategy and execution together, it won't help at all.

15
Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: GRX 820 or LTWOO eGR?
« on: September 12, 2024, 01:50:19 PM »
Definitely not making excuses for LTWOO, but did you send it via the retailer or directly?  I've gotten answers to questions from LTWOO but they do insist that support is supposed to go through the retailers.  In today's world, I think that manufacturers should be prepared for direct support along with channel support but that may be one of the issues.

Also on the failure, do I understand correctly that you believe the failure was the circuit board (or connectors) in the battery carrier?

Pages: [1] 2 3