Advice on fake frames

[abdbeg]

My frame is an Emonda copy, I was able to only have one short 50km ride so far.
Long term experience will need a few more months, but so far so good.
There is nothing crazy in terms of technology on this frame that I would expect to cause any problems.

The only negative is, that it uses a copy of the Trek "seat mast" instead of a traditional seat post. You can not easily find such "seat masts" as separate parts on Ali.
In my case I wanted to fit a saddle with carbon rails but the seller could not offer the adapter parts for 7x9 rails.
Finally I found the adapter parts from Kocvelo on Ali that work perfectly with the clone Trek "seat mast":
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005066568629.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.183.47521802HDOx8x

I would also be careful with the Isospeed copy, my guess is you need to really understand how that thing works before making a copy.

BR Chris

Thanks for the posting, sounds good, will wait for a long term review

[ChrisB]

Hey Chris, can you share your experience with us? How bike is holding, what kind of negatives do you have?

OK I pull this thread up again since there were several questions regarding copies of well known frames in the past weeks.

Finally I got some more KM's on the bike and can share some experience after 650km on the road.
The frame is a copy of the Trek Emonda 2022, which is a very accurate clone when comparing details from the original TREK manual.
As you would expect, the frame and components do not come with their own manual, so downloading the original manual is of big help during assembly.
So far everything is performing without issues and the ride feel is one of the best I had from a road bike so far.

Would I recommend a "Copycat" carbon frame?
Having the choice to buy a similar Chinese "open mold" from a reputable Chinese manufacturer it would be my first choice. I believe they will stand behind their quality and maintain good standards.
The risk of a "Copy" frame is the quality of the carbon material, lay-up, lamination and QA, that is not easy to recognize even after using an endoscope camera to check for obvious flaws...
With some experience building up Chinese bike frames and for me personally it is a reasonable choice.

BR Chris

[abdbeg]

OK I pull this thread up again since there were several questions regarding copies of well known frames in the past weeks.

Finally I got some more KM's on the bike and can share some experience after 650km on the road.
The frame is a copy of the Trek Emonda 2022, which is a very accurate clone when comparing details from the original TREK manual.
As you would expect, the frame and components do not come with their own manual, so downloading the original manual is of big help during assembly.
So far everything is performing without issues and the ride feel is one of the best I had from a road bike so far.

Would I recommend a "Copycat" carbon frame?
Having the choice to buy a similar Chinese "open mold" from a reputable Chinese manufacturer it would be my first choice. I believe they will stand behind their quality and maintain good standards.
The risk of a "Copy" frame is the quality of the carbon material, lay-up, lamination and QA, that is not easy to recognize even after using an endoscope camera to check for obvious flaws...
With some experience building up Chinese bike frames and for me personally it is a reasonable choice.

BR Chris

Thank you for your review! What's quality from the inside compared to the open mold brands? Like thickness, cleaness, voids and other factors

[Sebastian]

I would really like to know how these manufacturers get their hands on the molds for these frames.
I’d imagine that Trek, Pinarello and the likes got an exclusive license for these molds when they have them made. But maybe that license expires at some point?
Do they just buy these molds on the open market? Or do they really go through the trouble of reverse copying them?

[ChrisB]

Thank you for your review! What's quality from the inside compared to the open mold brands? Like thickness, cleaness, voids and other factors

I can only talk about the frames I have worked on so far:
- 1x TanTan Seraph / Gravel, Carbon
- 2x C-Wind / Gravel, Carbon
- PyTitans / Gravel, Titan
- Emonda Clone / Race, Carbon

On all of them the inside of the frame was clean and they only needed facing the break mount points from excessive paint.
There were no voids or other visible defects as far as I could tell on all the frames I checked.
The Emonda clone had some Resin overflow in the head tube area, where the tubes join, so I used some sandpaper to clean it up.
So far it seems I have been lucky with all of the frames, so no obvious flaws have surfaced during the build or the use so far.

On another note my girlfriend tried to buy a Bianchi Specialissima frameset from a different AliExpress vendor.
They happily took the money and made promises of when the frame would ship, but it never left China, even they had given her a tracking number.
After some time she cancelled the order and got the money back from AliExpress.
So buying a clone frame can be an issue...

BR Chris

[bremerradkurier]

I'd like to see humor replica frame brand labels, like Poorfellow instead of Pinarello, Dreck i/o Trek, Dwarf i/o Giant, Generalized i/o Specialized.

[matts]

I bought a knock off of a system six three years ago through Costelo (areosix is what its called on aliexpress) they used to be a big reputable seller. The frame is quite heavy, but I think it looks great and the handling makes me descend faster on this than on any bike I've yet owned. I use it for training and absolutely beat the hell out of it - I'm nearly 90kg. It's still going well and no complaints except there is nearly 2kg of carbon in the frame and insanely stiff. That's probably why it seems bullet proof.

Just got the Og Evkin frameset that looks like a madone. Og Evkin seems to have a good reputation and I've been happy with parts I've got from them. No isospeed, but it is clearly meant to look like a Madone. Haven't built it yet. Tolerances seem ok and carbon layup is far better than on the aerosix. It just feels much more refined and less agricultural. Unbelievably, I paid less for it. 550 euro including shipping and taxes. If I have a bit of bother building it I can live with that for the price.

I've got the Yoeleo R9, people think its a Aeroad when I'm on group rides. Its solid enough. I don't love it, but its reliable, light and good value for money. But, the build was not straightforward at all and Yoeleo was a bit sketchy to deal with considering they are supposed to be premium chinese carbon.

Saying all that, there are knock offs that I don't like the look of. Ads that don't show the full frame, or ads that are clearly pictures of the original frame. Seems like a scam.

My take on it is that you are crazy to expect great aftersales support or the refinement of the original or a build that doesnt require some problem solving. But that doesnt mean that you are buying a death trap unless you are very unlucky or you are deailing with a seller/manfacturer with no reputation.

[Username]

I would really like to know how these manufacturers get their hands on the molds for these frames.
I’d imagine that Trek, Pinarello and the likes got an exclusive license for these molds when they have them made. But maybe that license expires at some point?
Do they just buy these molds on the open market? Or do they really go through the trouble of reverse copying them?

Going by the impeccable quality of my DogmaF from ali, I'd say they walk across the road to the legit. factory, ask for the new moulds then walk back with them. Now if someone can go grab the new DogmaXC moulds please...

[paracord]

Going by the impeccable quality of my DogmaF from ali,

Do you have a build thread to share?