Hi all from nottingham.

[dudeskin]

hi everyone. i think i have convinced myself that i need one of these in my life now.
im really new to all this building lark so i dont really know what im looking at sometimes.


the main thing im trying to figure out, is where i should get one from for the UK, and then i will look into what models from place to place.

whats people gut feeling on what frame would be the best suited to someone who rides trail centers and want this bike to double up as a winter commute for when its too slippy for the road bike?
i know its as open as it can be, but im lost as to where to start at the moment haha.

thanks guys
joe

[MTB2223]

Hi Joe,

Nice to have you here.
I suppose you're looking for a new 29er with a Chinese frame as basis.

Tell us more:
- what mtb are you currently riding?
- how long are you?
- do you want a hard tail or full suspension?

Please before asking everything, take a look to all these topic in this forum. There's a lot of information.
And then make up your mind and ask !

[Carbon_Dude]

Hi Joe, you wouldn't happen to be the Sheriff of Nottingham, would you? 

All joking aside, welcome to Chinertown!

[dudeskin]

Aha, it was late and looking back, I missed loads out haha.

Any who, I'm a light guy around 145lbs ish plus gear, I'm around 5 10 in hight.
I only have a carrera kraken at the moment with some old marzochi air forks and Clarke S2 hydro disc brakes front and back.  Nothing special at all but I think I've out grown what It now in terms of what it will do without making it hard work for myself. Haha.

My brother has a Ragley Blue pig with some great gear and I'd like something if a similar level to try and keep up a bit better (the more the bike can do the less skill I need, that works well for me now haha).

I do want hard tail for sure, I just prefer it and it will be better for a commute when I have to on it.

I suppose I'm struggling with all these IP numbers and FR numbers I see all over.
I've read about 30 or 40 pages on the MTBR forum thread but it goes so far back etc I get lost in years of old posts. Haha.

I don't understand what these BB things mean, what's a BSA type or BB30 or whatever it's called?
I want to ideally run 1x9 or 2x9 gears. Not fussed about bottles but one holder would be nice.
Not sure what the headset stuff means either.
Or 145x12 axle too? Is that what I know as maxle? Haha.

Cheers

Sheriff of nottingham, man not in tights.

[Carbon_Dude]

If you want a hard tail, the popular frames are the IP-057 (I have one of those) and most recently the IP-256.

Both come with your choice of bottom bracket, I like BSA, which is also known as English or Threaded.  BB30 is a press fit style, not as easy to maintain in my opinion, and often prone to being a bit creaky.  BSA threads in easily but does need a special socket type tool to install.  There is lots of information on the web explaining bottom brackets.

You can order the headset from the same vendor selling the frame.  Neco headsets are pretty good.  You can upgrade later if you want a higher end headset.

IP numbers are generally from XMIplay.com, FM numbers are used by several other vendors, HongFu Bikes being one of them.  They are the same product, example, IP-057 = FM-057.

If you are going to also purchase new wheels, I like the thru axle option.  12x142 rear, 15mm front.  Main advantage is ease of wheel install and removal.  People talk about thru axles being stiffer, however, I could not feel a difference in riding between QR and thru axle.  For me, it's convenience of not having to re-alighn anything when the wheel is removed and re-installed.

You say you want to run a 1x system, check out SRAM XX1 or XX0, these are dedicated 1x drivetrains.  You can purchase the entire drivetrain from eBay for about $1100 USD.  Another good choice would be Shimano XT 1x10 with a Raceface wide/narrow chain ring & Wolftooth 40T rear cog.  This has also gotten popular to get a good gear range (slightly more limited than SRAM) but in 1x10.

[Sitar_Ned]

You say you want to run a 1x system, check out SRAM XX1 or XX0, these are dedicated 1x drivetrains.  You can purchase the entire drivetrain from eBay for about $1100 USD.  Another good choice would be Shimano XT 1x10 with a Raceface wide/narrow chain ring & Wolftooth 40T rear cog.  This has also gotten popular to get a good gear range (slightly more limited than SRAM) but in 1x10.

Just a few on thoughts on going Shimano 1x10:

- So far, the gear range is plenty for me. While I would eventually like to get the range available with the SRAM set-up, I can't currently justify the price difference for my type of riding. That said, that SRAM is just freaking awesome and if you want the best and lightest and are willing to pay... look no further than SRAM.

- I went mostly all SLX drivetrain. The only thing upgraded to XT are the shifters.. Not only have I read that they are noticeably crisper than SLX shifters, they also give you the option of shifting up gears in intervals of 2, while the SLX shifters are limited to up-shifting one gear at a time. With some bargain hunting, you'll be in a very capable 1x10 set-up for sub $500.

- Get the Race face front chain ring.. it's quite a bit cheaper than the wolf tooth and serves the same function. The wolf tooth is made in USA, but since you're on this forum.. it's a little late for that.

- I'd try it without the wolf tooth 40t rear cog at first.. like I said, it's plenty for me. You can always upgrade later if you find you need it, and by then there may even be more options to choose from.

- Make sure to get the rear derailleur with the clutch system, it makes a big difference, imo.

Oh.. and welcome!

[carbonazza]

Just a note about the 256 frame.
I took the PF30 bottom bracket version of that frame.

I live in Belgium, which I guess is on par with Nottingham for the wet weather.
And this summer is wet, it is as muddy as october right now.

The 256 frame allows some water/mud to enter the frame. I didn't spot yet the source.
But it results in a very quick contamination of the BB bearings.
I serviced the bearings once, to no avail.

I contacted the seller of my XX1, and will return the BB to them/SRAM.
May be the bearings were not properly sealed, or of poor quality.
But I'm afraid it is the whole SRAM PF30 BB that is poorly designed for wet weather.

In the meantime, I found bbinfinite.com which seems to have the perfect design for this problem.
And ordered the last one they had in stock. I'm waiting for it.

All this to say, if you choose a 256 frame (which is a great frame, by the way).
Take a BSA BB, as carbon_dude suggests.

And consider investing into a compatriot Hope bottom bracket, they say "BB that stands up to British weather":
http://www.hopetech.com/product/threaded/

[WorkingHPRs]

Hi Chap,
I am down Devon and slowly putting together a pile of parts before pushing the button on an IP-256SL with a BSA/English bottom bracket, personally I would steer clear of a BB30 type bottom bracket for MTB use in the UK.

If going single speed at the front you can pick up a complete X1 groupset off of ebay for £350 new (I did).

I found doing a spread sheet with a list of the required components means I can remember what I still need to find.

Good luck!

Mike

[dudeskin]

Cheers guys. You have no idea how much you have cleared up for me. All of you.

Makes it easier to understand threads when you know what people are on about.

Defo going to go for the BSA BB then, I have friends that have the tool so that sounds easier Han press fit. I've removed lots of beating from motorbike swing arms and it's a pain so I'll avoid more of that. Haha.

I've not got a massive budget really. It was either build one or find something similar on the cycle to work scheme and pay it off over a year tax free. But this way I get a better bike.

I'm really unsure on either 057 or the 256. I prefer the seat tube area on the 057 I think. Looks stronger to me. I think it may be cheaper too so that's good haha.

Having looked on ebay why is it so cheap to buy a 3x10 rather than 2x10 or 1x10. Crazy. I don't want that many gears haha.

Are wheels standard figment with the appropriate axle sizes?

Sorry for odd reply, on my phone and it's takes ages.

[dudeskin]

Also, how do you actually buy a frame? Had a look on Iplay one and can't see any cart or anything. Haha

[Vipassana]

You will need to send an email to Peter at Iplay.  He will work up a custom order for you with all of the product details and shipping costs.

peter@xmiplay.cn

[Carbon_Dude]

29er wheels are fairly standard.  Generally you can choose 28 spoke or 32 spoke, more spokes are stronger but weigh a bit more.  The width of the rim is also a choice, 24mm, 30mm, 35mm are common widths in carbon rims these days.  If you go aluminum, there may be some other widths depending on mfr.  You will want tubeless compatible rims either way, trust me on this.  If you don't go tubeless now, you will in the future.

If you have XMIplay build your carbon wheels you will have additional choices for spokes, nipples, and hubs.  You can also talk to Peter about those options.

A set of carbon wheels from a Chinese vendor will set you back at least $600 USD or so.  If your budget does not have that amount to spend on wheels there are lots of good choices in the $300-$500 range but they will be heavier and/or not as stiff.  Also, if you go with SRAM XX1 or XX0 drivetrain, you will need an XD free hub for the rear wheel, so take that into consideration.  If you have the Chinese vendor build you a wheel set you can spec out the XD hub to start with saving you about $90.

[dudeskin]

thanks again.
i got a price back from Peter, around what i expected.
still seeing if i can afford to build one now or have to get something ready made for a while.
my budget is around £600 to £700 all in, and the frame is around £330 on its own with shipping.
not sure that enough to even build it or not.

not sure what that relates to so i am still sorting out basic specs and prices, then having to worry about weight last.
id love to be able to make it front sus below 11kg, or 10kg would be amazing but not sure id be able to.

anyone else build a budget one? i know its a contradiction, cheap carbon bike, even though its Chinese haha

looked at the Mavic crossride wheels, seem ok and they run aroun £180 front and back new.

[Carbon_Dude]

My IP-057 with higher end components and 1x drivetrain came in at 19.5 lbs (8.85 Kg) with pedals so I would think you could do a budget build and still be in the 10-11 Kg (22-24 lb) range.  There have been some budget builds but maybe look at finding some used parts on eBay or local sales.  I would highly recommend that if you are wanting a carbon framed bike on a budget, to take your time find the deals and build something you like rather than settling for something else.  Doing so will save you money in the long run.

[Patrick C.]

£700 will probably require you to find used parts, and you will probably be closer to 11-12 kg unless you go with a rigid fork.  The cheapest Rockshox 29er fork will save you over $300/£180, but it also weighs almost 800 g more than an air spring fork (2320 g vs. 1550 g). 

Tires are probably the cheapest area to save weight, but you have to keep paying.  The cheaper ones are around £15 but over a kg due to wire beads.  More expensive ones come in at up to £50 each and wear out faster, but will save as much as 400 g per tire compared to the cheapest ones.   

For new parts, you can get a full Deore group (including brakes) from Merlin Cycles for about £220.  Not sure how much VAT you have to pay, but that will add a bit.  Wheels will be another ~£110, with cheaper ones adding 200 - 350 g depending on what you're comparing to.  That still leaves the seat, seatpost, bars, stem, and other bits, but they will be minor after the frame, fork, group, and wheels.

             £
Frame        330
deore           213.75
fork           78.13
Wheels        109.38
Tires         43.75
   Total      775.00


You may be able to save a little going with an ebay frame, but I don't know enough about them to say which is closest to the -057 or which sellers are good.