Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame

[Pigdog]

Here is my final build now. 8.1 kg including everything, bike computer, bottle cages (with hidden multitool), pedals, mount etc.

I think it turned out great.

Looks great! 8.1kg is excellent for the complete setup.

[vTuga]

I'm going to build my 168 with a SRAM Force AXS groupset, with a DUB crankset. What kind of bottom bracket would you choose? I was leaning towards the official Sram BB86 DUB BB, but I'm worried about the durability. Maybe I should go for a more premium BB, like Kogel, C-Bear or Ceramic Speed? What do you think?

[voshond]

I'm going to build my 168 with a SRAM Force AXS groupset, with a DUB crankset. What kind of bottom bracket would you choose? I was leaning towards the official Sram BB86 DUB BB, but I'm worried about the durability. Maybe I should go for a more premium BB, like Kogel, C-Bear or Ceramic Speed? What do you think?

From what i heard, C-Bear, Ceramic Speed, Kogel are all shit and overprized. Either go for Sram itself, Hambini or Token. Not sure Hambini has one, but they are also coming with quite a price tag. I heard good things about the token ones tho, but that was for the thread together design. the DUB diameter is a bit too big for the diameter of BB86.

If anything and what also Hambini recommends: try to stick to 24mm axles, they will actually be stiffer and give you more clearance. I know there are rotor aldhu cranks, with 24mm axles, that might be compatible with Sram? Maybe they even have 24mm versions?

[Kirkspants]

Those ceramic bottom brackets do not necessarily correlate to durability. Look at how XTR and Campagnolo Pro-Tech approach durability, with seal design and highest quality steel bearings. Ceramic bearings actually do require a fair amount of upkeep, which not many people commit to. For example, I’d look into Enduro Angular Contact series bearings.

[Kirkspants]

If anything and what also Hambini recommends: try to stick to 24mm axles, they will actually be stiffer and give you more clearance. I know there are rotor aldhu cranks, with 24mm axles, that might be compatible with Sram? Maybe they even have 24mm versions?

Agreed- you take a huge durability and longevity hit by trying to cram a ~30 mm spindle in a BB86 (Really, English/Italian/French even) sized hole.

[1Sigma]

Fork TA = 130mm
Dropout TA = 164mm

Just to make sure I wasn’t smoking, I pulled the axles to check

[vTuga]

From what i heard, C-Bear, Ceramic Speed, Kogel are all shit and overprized. Either go for Sram itself, Hambini or Token. Not sure Hambini has one, but they are also coming with quite a price tag. I heard good things about the token ones tho, but that was for the thread together design. the DUB diameter is a bit too big for the diameter of BB86.

If anything and what also Hambini recommends: try to stick to 24mm axles, they will actually be stiffer and give you more clearance. I know there are rotor aldhu cranks, with 24mm axles, that might be compatible with Sram? Maybe they even have 24mm versions?

Interesting. I didn´t know of Token. But from a quick search, I haven't found it for sale in Europe.

About the 24mm axles, I could try a Sram crankset with a GXP axle. I don't know if other options exist compatible with 12s sram axs groupsets.

[carbonazza]

I have a BB92 on my FM-936(same as BB86 but 6mm wider) while I had ordered it as BSA.
Being heavily Hambinized at the time, I was very disappointed(big spindle in small hole = very bad  )
But installed a DUB spindle anyway as I had it already.

After a year plus with the SRAM BB86/92 DUB and a heavy usage, races and mud, it is still surprisingly smooth.

On other bikes I tried GXP, BBinfinite(similar to Hambini), BB30, PF30, Wheels mfg and some Aliexpress PF by screw.
On all of these I was changing the bearings once or twice a year.

Moral of the story... for a DUB I would go every time with the SRAM, it is cheap and reliable.
And maybe look for something else only if unlucky, but probably the frame is then the problem (not concentric, or not circular holes) and any alternative won't probably work either.

[voshond]

Interesting. I didn´t know of Token. But from a quick search, I haven't found it for sale in Europe.

About the 24mm axles, I could try a Sram crankset with a GXP axle. I don't know if other options exist compatible with 12s sram axs groupsets.

I'm pretty sure the Rotor Aldhu 24 crank should work, you would just need to find the chainring, that works with a Sram Chain. Since it's modular, you can change it quite easily. Peak Torque made a video about their modular system and it was reviewed quite nicely in terms of manufacturing tolerances. There is a discussion about the topic here too.

there is also a token dealer locator: https://www.tokenproducts.com/dealer-locator

The reason on why i would avoid DUB, is that the space is just to narrow for good bearings. Also ceramic speed and cbear are quite shit for the price and ceramic bearings don't really make sense, since they are the harder material within a softer shell, so you will def. get grooves over time.

[vTuga]

I have a BB92 on my FM-936(same as BB86 but 6mm wider) while I had ordered it as BSA.
Being heavily Hambinized at the time, I was very disappointed(big spindle in small hole = very bad  )
But installed a DUB spindle anyway as I had it already.

After a year plus with the SRAM BB86/92 DUB and a heavy usage, races and mud, it is still surprisingly smooth.

On other bikes I tried GXP, BBinfinite(similar to Hambini), BB30, PF30, Wheels mfg and some Aliexpress PF by screw.
On all of these I was changing the bearings once or twice a year.

Moral of the story... for a DUB I would go every time with the SRAM, it is cheap and reliable.
And maybe look for something else only if unlucky, but probably the frame is then the problem (not concentric, or not circular holes) and any alternative won't probably work either.

Yes, I think I'll go for the SRAM DUB. I was looking up the Rotor Aldhu 24, and it would be double the cost of what I can get a Force AXS DUB crankset. That's a lot of bottom brackets.

[patliean1]

It's Chinertown's favorite know-it-all, reporting for duty...

-So I had a Kogel Bearings ceramic DUB to BB30 bottom bracket on my Allez Sprint for 6,500mi/10,500km before I sold the bike. The bearings still ran super smooth just as the first day I installed it. No issues with durability. The original reason for installing the Kogel BB was because the standard $50 SRAM DUB bottom bracket completely crapped out on me in less than 500 miles. I was actually warned by a few peers not to use the SRAM DUB BB and..well...$60 down the drain.

-I also now run a Kogel BB86 on my Winspace T1500. So far 1,700mi/2,700km and no issues. Kogel Bearings almost always offers a "free" set of oversized ceramic pulley wheels with every purchase of a ceramic BB. If not for the visual bling bling, this at least mitigates some of the cost of the BB.

-I also run Wheels MFG outboard BBs on all my other bikes (road/gravel/trainer). This in my opinion is the BEST value in bottom brackets on the market today for the price. One thing to note: People have a tendency to over-torque the pre-load adjuster on their crankset which not only prevents the bearings from running as smoothly as they should, but also will destroy the bearings faster than you realize. Just barely finger tight is all you need. Only just enough to remove any crankset play and not a degree turn more.

-Is a $200 bottom bracket worth it? Probably not, and especially not without a "free" set if pulley wheels. But you can actually feel the difference in smoothness when pedaling, albeit marginal. You can't go wrong with Wheels MFG though. They really specialize in that sort of thing.

[vTuga]

It's Chinertown's favorite know-it-all, reporting for duty...

-So I had a Kogel Bearings ceramic DUB to BB30 bottom bracket on my Allez Sprint for 6,500mi/10,500km before I sold the bike. The bearings still ran super smooth just as the first day I installed it. No issues with durability. The original reason for installing the Kogel BB was because the standard $50 SRAM DUB bottom bracket completely crapped out on me in less than 500 miles. I was actually warned by a few peers not to use the SRAM DUB BB and..well...$60 down the drain.

-I also now run a Kogel BB86 on my Winspace T1500. So far 1,700mi/2,700km and no issues. Kogel Bearings almost always offers a "free" set of oversized ceramic pulley wheels with every purchase of a ceramic BB. If not for the visual bling bling, this at least mitigates some of the cost of the BB.

-I also run Wheels MFG outboard BBs on all my other bikes (road/gravel/trainer). This in my opinion is the BEST value in bottom brackets on the market today for the price. One thing to note: People have a tendency to over-torque the pre-load adjuster on their crankset which not only prevents the bearings from running as smoothly as they should, but also will destroy the bearings faster than you realize. Just barely finger tight is all you need. Only just enough to remove any crankset play and not a degree turn more.

-Is a $200 bottom bracket worth it? Probably not, and especially not without a "free" set if pulley wheels. But you can actually feel the difference in smoothness when pedaling, albeit marginal. You can't go wrong with Wheels MFG though. They really specialize in that sort of thing.

I've also looked Wheels MFG as a good option, but the price for the BB86 DUB BB is very close to the C-Bears with ceramic bearings (120-140€). Don't know it the Wheels MFG are worth it at that price, it starts to go into premium territory.

[VanDungLe]

I'm going to build my 168 with a SRAM Force AXS groupset, with a DUB crankset. What kind of bottom bracket would you choose? I was leaning towards the official Sram BB86 DUB BB, but I'm worried about the durability. Maybe I should go for a more premium BB, like Kogel, C-Bear or Ceramic Speed? What do you think?

Like the other person said, your best option would be a Hambini bottom bracket+24mm crank. That being said, if you're a cheap skate like me, i'd get a Thread-fit design BB for 24mm spindle from aliexpress (from brand like GUB, ZTTO,...), swap out the original bearings, change it to NSK/SKF bearings (i forgot the dimension, but just make sure the inner race diameter is 25mm), get a plastic shims for 24mm spindle like for Shimano BB (you can also get this from Aliexpress) and done, you'd get the best bang for buck BB imho. Although Hambini doesn't like that design because of its stiffness (or lack thereof and i agree with him), i dont really care. It works.for me lol.

[vTuga]

I'm looking into the Rotor crankset but with the vegast 24 cranks instead of the Aldhu 24. It's 100€ cheaper. Don't really know the difference between the two. If its just the weight (30gr dif) than the vegast should be fine.

[1Sigma]

Here is my final build now. 8.1 kg including everything, bike computer, bottle cages (with hidden multitool), pedals, mount etc.

I think it turned out great.

That’s a clean machine!