LTWOO ER9 & ERX - Electronic groepsets

[jonathanf2]

Here's a hi res photo of the new V3 eR9 for those interested. Courtesy of 80 Design Store! 

[toxin]

Just need one of these guys to include some satellite shifter compatibility and I'll jump on.

[jonathanf2]

Just need one of these guys to include some satellite shifter compatibility and I'll jump on.

That would be a game changer if someone would develop universal satellite shift buttons that would work across all the Chinese electronic groupsets. They could literally "Deepseek" the whole electronic groupset market.

[Sebastian]

It shifts amazingly quick compared to mechanical.

I appreciate electronic groupsets. But they still feel kind of gimmicky to me.
I like the ease of building with wireless groupsets. The tunability is cool, too. But quick I’ve actually found none of them. Di2 is the quickest. I’ve only ridden 11sp Di2 though. Er9 is slower. And Sam Rival is sloooow.

I often wonder how many people riding electronic these days have actually had the chance to compare this stuff to a perfectly tuned top tier mechanical system. Compared to my Record 12sp mechanical, every electronic group I’ve ridden is slower. Particularly in the upshifts. Electronic has less chance for misshifts and is easier to build. True. But quicker it is not.

But the way that frames go, it’s a moot point anyway. Not long and only custom frames will still accept derailleur cables, I guess.

[BeR]

I appreciate electronic groupsets. But they still feel kind of gimmicky to me.
I like the ease of building with wireless groupsets. The tunability is cool, too. But quick I’ve actually found none of them. Di2 is the quickest. I’ve only ridden 11sp Di2 though. Er9 is slower. And Sam Rival is sloooow.

I often wonder how many people riding electronic these days have actually had the chance to compare this stuff to a perfectly tuned top tier mechanical system. Compared to my Record 12sp mechanical, every electronic group I’ve ridden is slower. Particularly in the upshifts. Electronic has less chance for misshifts and is easier to build. True. But quicker it is not.

But the way that frames go, it’s a moot point anyway. Not long and only custom frames will still accept derailleur cables, I guess.

Just a little click with the finger.
But the most thing I like is the semi-syncronisation shifting.

[toxin]

That would be a game changer if someone would develop universal satellite shift buttons that would work across all the Chinese electronic groupsets. They could literally "Deepseek" the whole electronic groupset market.

It doesn't even have to be anything special. Shimano wired buttons are literally just the simplest binary buttons possible. Press button = complete circuit. You can literally make them at home.

[Alastair_S1D]

Cassette tapes had "character" too, that little warble-y sound they would do with high frequencies and other such artifacts. Though it was funny to listen to my old Journey mix tape while Steve Perry belted over some high pitched synth, I absolutely don't "miss" that being the only way to listen to music in my car. And, though my mechanical Ultegra is very good, electric shifting is just better 99 times out of 100. And, probably better that last time, too, but occasionally a big mechanical "clunk" followed by a perfect shift is fun, so 1/100 ain't bad!

I think comparing a bike groupset to a audio standard is a little disingenuous don't you? Like audio cassette tapes looking back were proper trash. I don't see how anyone could look back at those with fond memories. Same with VHS and other standards that converted over to digital. I think a manual transmission on a car compared to a semi-auto paddle shift is definitely more accurate? Both are great, but one is definitely better with shift speed etc. But one definitely has more soul. And that's probably why the manual tranny soldiers on in the hearts of car enthusiasts. (I won't ditch me manual even if you held a gun to my head)

[jonathanf2]

I think being able to tune a mechanical groupset should be a requisite before going electronic! 

I still prefer my Shimano mechanical front derailleur though. I feel like it's the biggest weakness of the LTwoo system. Maybe the newer V3 eR9/X is better, but my Shimano FD was always spot on. No need for a chain catcher. A pefectly tuned Shimano FD, just works!

I forgot to add, I have no clue why Ltwoo uses a narrow wide jockey wheel on the lower cage. Using a regular jockey wheel on the upper cage causes the chain to jump off the wheel if dumping gears. After swapping to Ultegra jockey wheels in the proper orientation, I was able to get better shifting and I was also able to get the cage closer to the cassette allowing for smoother shifting with my 11-34t cassette.

[Alastair_S1D]

Maybe the secret sauce is in the Shimano chainrings. Because I am still using my R8000 crank after my conversion to eRX (v3) from R8000 mechanical and I find the front shifting to be at least as good or better. That being said I'm VERY particular about tuning my front mech and my R8000 was tuned very well.

[Sebastian]

I still prefer my Shimano mechanical front derailleur though. I feel like it's the biggest weakness of the LTwoo system. Maybe the newer V3 eR9/X is better, but my Shimano FD was always spot on. No need for a chain catcher. A pefectly tuned Shimano FD, just works!

I too found the Ltwoo front shifting pretty agricultural. I made it work but it was nowhere near my Record front mech. That is a full group though so the front mech is paired with the crankset and chainrings from the same groupset. I ran the Ltwoo with a Sram crank with Zrace chainrings. Wasn’t impressed. I switched to Shimano chainrings which actually made things worse because the chainline sits even further outboard with those. Now with Sram Rival AXS it’s better but not by much. I wouldn’t trust this setup to shift well under load in a race situation. If you back off slightly and go easy on it, it’s kind of reliable. But I’ve had much better.

[Rebel_Yell]

I think being able to tune a mechanical groupset should be a requisite before going electronic! 

I still prefer my Shimano mechanical front derailleur though. I feel like it's the biggest weakness of the LTwoo system. Maybe the newer V3 eR9/X is better, but my Shimano FD was always spot on. No need for a chain catcher. A pefectly tuned Shimano FD, just works!

I forgot to add, I have no clue why Ltwoo uses a narrow wide jockey wheel on the lower cage. Using a regular jockey wheel on the upper cage causes the chain to jump off the wheel if dumping gears. After swapping to Ultegra jockey wheels in the proper orientation, I was able to get better shifting and I was also able to get the cage closer to the cassette allowing for smoother shifting with my 11-34t cassette.

Can you explain what you with the jockey wheels?  If previously did I must have missed it. Looking for best operations. 

[Rapac]

I too found the Ltwoo front shifting pretty agricultural. I made it work but it was nowhere near my Record front mech. That is a full group though so the front mech is paired with the crankset and chainrings from the same groupset. I ran the Ltwoo with a Sram crank with Zrace chainrings. Wasn’t impressed. I switched to Shimano chainrings which actually made things worse because the chainline sits even further outboard with those. Now with Sram Rival AXS it’s better but not by much. I wouldn’t trust this setup to shift well under load in a race situation. If you back off slightly and go easy on it, it’s kind of reliable. But I’ve had much better.

I use your Ltwoo groupset with a Sram gxp crank and 52-34 chainring combination and a dura ace 11-30 cassette . Pretty good ! The front is as good as di2 11 speed but less Than 12 speed. The trim adjust is a bad point tho, but I'm happy with it ! Thanks again

[jonathanf2]

Can you explain what you with the jockey wheels?  If previously did I must have missed it. Looking for best operations.

LTwoo in-spec has a 32t max cassette size. Running an 11-34t cassette on bumpy terrain while in the smallest cog would result in occasional chain drops. Sometimes when trying to build up speed on the downhill, I find myself in the highest gear setting (small cog). Ltwoo provides an 11t upper and 12t narrow/wide lower jockey wheel. I swapped out the Ltwoo stock wheels for Ultegra 11t upper and 11t lower jockey wheels. By doing so I was able to slightly move the upper jockey wheel closer to the small cog, which gave more stability on bumpy roads. Also the Ultegra upper jockey wheel has taller teeth. I noticed it keeps the chain aligned better when doing multiple shifts at once. On the stock Ltwoo upper wheel there's a chance the chain can jump off the upper jockey wheel if doing multiple shifts at once. I don't really see a point using a lower narrow/wide 12t jockey wheel.

[jonathanf2]

Maybe the secret sauce is in the Shimano chainrings. Because I am still using my R8000 crank after my conversion to eRX (v3) from R8000 mechanical and I find the front shifting to be at least as good or better. That being said I'm VERY particular about tuning my front mech and my R8000 was tuned very well.

I was initially using Senicx 3 bolt 2x chainrings, which require no adjustment compared to a Shimano chainring/crankset. When I installed my Magene PM, I had to get 4 bolt asymmetric chainrings. I tried aftermarket chainrings and they sucked. I swapped to Shimano chainrings and shifting is much better with LTwoo.

[Rebel_Yell]

LTwoo in-spec has a 32t max cassette size. Running an 11-34t cassette on bumpy terrain while in the smallest cog would result in occasional chain drops. Sometimes when trying to build up speed on the downhill, I find myself in the highest gear setting (small cog). Ltwoo provides an 11t upper and 12t narrow/wide lower jockey wheel. I swapped out the Ltwoo stock wheels for Ultegra 11t upper and 11t lower jockey wheels. By doing so I was able to slightly move the upper jockey wheel closer to the small cog, which gave more stability on bumpy roads. Also the Ultegra upper jockey wheel has taller teeth. I noticed it keeps the chain aligned better when doing multiple shifts at once. On the stock Ltwoo upper wheel there's a chance the chain can jump off the upper jockey wheel if doing multiple shifts at once. I don't really see a point using a lower narrow/wide 12t jockey wheel.

Thanks for the explanation!!