TanTan TT-X38 Build

[ejump0]

does this frame clears the magene p505 base pm? 

been eyeing this x38 vs tt913 for a lightweight tribike build for race abroad. 
in size 49-52, the geo about the same between these 2 frames, with x38 almost 600g lighter 

also for the headtube cable routing, how does it looks like(how its routed thru headset?

[Sebastian]

does this frame clears the magene p505 base pm? 

been eyeing this x38 vs tt913 for a lightweight tribike build for race abroad. 
in size 49-52, the geo about the same between these 2 frames, with x38 almost 600g lighter 

also for the headtube cable routing, how does it looks like(how its routed thru headset?

I'm using this frame with a Magene P505 on a Sram BB30 wide axle crank and a Token T47i BB. It just about clears the frame and works perfectly.

Cable routing is pretty standard. There's an aluminium C-ring to compress the bearings and the upper headset cap is open on the front of the headtube. So the cables and brake lines are fed through there and then enter the integrated cockpit. But you could just as well use any other stem and bar setup.
You can just about see the two brake lines running from the headset cover into the cockpit on this pic.

[armada]

does anyone have the size of the headset? it apears to have fallen out of the box and i would like to order a new one domesticaly

[Sebastian]

Here's my final review of this frameset after about one year of using it. I spread my riding across four different bikes, so I've done only somewhere north of 5.000 km on it. Still, that's plenty of riding to give a qualified verdict:

The geometry & fit:

It took me a long time to get comfortable on this bike and start to love it. Probably the longest ever. Part of that is down to the geo, I believe. In my particular case the seat tube angle and saddle position (plus finding a saddle I'm comfy with for this bike. The seat tube is steep - i mean really steep. That in combination with the chunky seatpost makes for a harsh ride - with 30mm tires, however, it's actually not that bad. But I need setback because I'm a big dude at 190cm with long limbs. Particularly my legs are long. And if you need setback, be aware that you'll quickly run out of room on this bike. I got my saddle all the way back and the clamp is also all the way back. And the saddle is still further forward than I got it on my VB-R218/Chinarello.

The geometry is not actually as aggressive as the looks might suggest - I found the bars to be too high for my liking even with a slammed cockpit. I needed to use the biggest frame size to get the desired reach and also, because I like the look of a slammed stem more than a tower of spacers. I do also think it makes for a stiffer interface all around to have the stem sitting more or less on top of the upper bearing and the expander reaching into the head tube. BUT the -10 stem wasn't low enough. So I ended up getting the Tan Tan bars and now I'm finally at the point where the fit is where I want it to be.

Long term durability

This bike has given me ZERO issues. I had a few hickups during the build which are more or less expected on super budget frames like this, but surprisingly little happened since then - no creaks, seatpost never slipped, BB is fine. The Thru Axles started creaking after hours of riding in heavy rain, but that's normal. I cleaned and greased them and all good.

The disc brakes were hard to get rub free initially but it worked. The front disc squeals no matter which pads I use - it might be the rotor or I might yet have to get it faced by a professional bike shop. But it's not super bad. Only real issue: The headset bearings are junk and you should probably not even bother using them. Because of the opening on the upper headset bearing's top cap, water gets in there when you wash the bike. The lower headset bearing had rust on it. It's still smooth but I reckon it's only a matter of time. And in fact on my Velobuild frame the lower headset bearing needed to be replaced in less than 6 months after riding in the rain. I think most of the headset bearings supplied with these budget frames are junk and at least the lower ones which are sujected to a lot more dirt, grime and water, should probably be best avoided.

The riding experience


So first of all, tire clearance is more than enough. My tires measure 31mm (Vittoria Corsa 28c on 25mm internal rims). Everything up to (actual measured) 34mm should be fine. The drive side chainstay will be the limiting factor.

I'm lacking comparison with other disc road bikes since this is the first disc bike I built (other than my gravel rig), but I'd say this probably rides as expected for a pure aero bike. It's devastatingly fast in a straight line - in fact the fastest bike I own. I score lots of PBs on descents which I put down to the aero attributes but also down to the brakes. I do brake harder and later with this bike, because I have the confidence to do so.
Steering is neutral, which is good for high speeds in a straight line while being tucked. Weight distribution is more front biased, which when climbing out of the saddle leads to the rear wheel skipping quicker than I'm used to. The BB is VERY stiff, which is good.

What struck me most is that because of the neutral handling, the bike doesn't actually feel as fast as it is. If you'd ask me to estimate my speed on this bike compared to my VB-R218, I'd reckon the 218 to be quicker. And yet it isn't - even if it's pretty close. The wheelbase is longer, fork trail slightly bigger and so it feels more muted. Therefore, it actually feels less exciting to ride at times. But once you appreciate the speed and the (for me) very comfy position, it's very enjoyable.

Conclusion


Looks are obviously a personal thing but I really like the color and the horizontal top tube combined with a -17 stem. It kind of looks classic, while the frame attributes are decidedly modern and aero.

IMO, this is not an allround bike. I have done very long rides on this bike (+220km / +130miles) and it's alright. I use it for everything, including gran fondos but I also race on it so I want to feel at home on it even on very long rides. But I'd argue that if you ride purely for enjoyment and if your main focus are epic and long days out with your mates and if you like comfort across all kinds of roads, there's probably more versatile options out there.

The one area where it definitely feels less inspiring is on very steep climbs. It's just not as nimble when dancing on the pedals. It's somewhere between my 218, which for some reason just really shines in those situations and my gravel bike, which feels a lot more sluggish, probably also because of the squishy big tires giving way when standing.

But it absolutely shines on descents. I mean it picks up speed super quick and it rails around bends, it behaves super predictive and I kind of feel I'd need a bigger gear than 52/11. I just spin out way quicker than I used to.

Buy this if you want to go fast and hard, if you race and if you enjoy a pretty uncompromising bike.

The biggest CON about this frameset might be the weight (if you care about that sort of thing). The frame is somewhere between 1100-1200g. The bike as pictured is just a touch below 8kg, including bottle cages, Garmin and front light mount and pedals. I think, that's already as light as it gets. I'm running a fairly light carbon crank, a monobloc steel cassette, a Super Record Hollow Pin chain, pretty light Xpedo pedals (I think around 270g) and 36g Ridenow TPU tubes. You could probably run an even lighter saddle, lighter tires and rotors. The wheels weigh 1450g so there's lighter options there as well. But this is never going to be a weight weenie bike. So while this is a great descender, it'd probably not be my first choice if I was living in the mountains. For the mostly flat terrain that I (have to) ride most of the time, it's perfect however.

Value for money


My main objective with this was to build the most price conscious equivalent of a modern aero bike that I could get. That included used parts bought on the German equivalent of Craigslist, for example the cranks and chainrings, the saddle, the brake calipers (which I used mainly cuz I don't like the look of the LTWOOs) and even the tires. It's a 580 USD frameset (incl shipping), sub 500 wheels, sub 500 mini-groupset, 250 for the powermeter + cranks, cassette, chain, rotors and finishing kit. Well, and I invested in another handlebar. The bike cost me somewhere between 2.000 and 2.500, which I think is remarkable value for money. The resale value is zero, that's just the way it is with direct 2 consumer china parts.

But I'm not afraid to race this bike and I thoroughly enjoy it.

[patliean1]

Superb long term review. Nice work!

[Serge_K]

The bike cost me somewhere between 2.000 and 2.500, which I think is remarkable value for money. The resale value is zero,

You built a speed machine, with electronic shifting, that ticks all the boxes (deep wheels, no exposed hoses, electronic shifting, 3d printed saddle, one piece cockpit, high end tyres).
You would sell this for 1k in probably 1 day, so it's 100% not zero resale.
The question becomes where's the market price. Having built 9 such bikes, and sold 6, there is demand for high end specs at low end pricing. I think it's fair to say that chinese carbon wheels are now ubiquitous and widely accepted. Why would frames be the opposite of that? A VB frame from 4 years ago with bladder moulding and shards of carbon everywhere inside isn't going to age well, for sure, but an EPS moulded frame with proven geometry and good tolerances has intrinsic value. You're not going to sell it to the dentist with a micro penis who beats his wife when he drinks, but plenty of rational people would, i'm sure, want to ride that at the right price, and it's not zero, especially if they get to test ride it and you provide support (for eg, helping them source a new er9 RD if the RD breaks).
that old song of zero resale like "chinese carbon is slave labour and you'll die if you ride it" needs to change.
i also recommend the book factfulness by Rosling, on the fact that societies tend to move forward, whether you pay attention to them or not. So what you learnt at school is often outdated, and by the same token, china 15 years ago is very, very different from china today.

[Sebastian]

Granted. I exaggerated. I didn’t mean literally zero. But having bought Chinese wheels used and having tried to sell a Chiner frame I can confidently say that at least at the moment resale value is not really a significant factir when making the decision to buy one of these. I rather trade them on to friends or upgrade my wife’s bikes with parts I take off of my bikes. But I agree, quality has improved significantly throughout the last decade or so.

Also markets differ. In my local riding group in Germany I’m the only one with a frame like this. Everyone still has a lot of prejudices against these kinds of products. And that is very much reflected when trying to sell one of these. But I’m doing my best to change that.

[lantz]

Granted. I exaggerated. I didn’t mean literally zero. But having bought Chinese wheels used and having tried to sell a Chiner frame I can confidently say that at least at the moment resale value is not really a significant factir when making the decision to buy one of these. I rather trade them on to friends or upgrade my wife’s bikes with parts I take off of my bikes. But I agree, quality has improved significantly throughout the last decade or so.

Also markets differ. In my local riding group in Germany I’m the only one with a frame like this. Everyone still has a lot of prejudices against these kinds of products. And that is very much reflected when trying to sell one of these. But I’m doing my best to change that.

Yeah, I'll say in a cycling market like Portland, OR where I live, I would have very little confidence in being able to get anything for my version of this bike. But, that's part of it - I agree that that narrative needs to change, but it's still some of the reality. I hope it continues to evolve, to be sure. I'm a huge advocate for this access and I pump it up every chance I get.

[pavlo.k]

I'm considering this frameset for my future build. What is the best place to purchase it? Tantan or on aliexpress? People mentioned quite a few quality problems with both suppliers

[Sebastian]

I’d probably buy from Tan Tan on Aliexpress (Seraph Store) and not from Sequel Sports (they sell on Aliexpress under the Ceccotti brand name).

From what I can tell Tan Tan seems to have more consistent quality. Which doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to get a flawless product. Note that both sellers sell the frame with different cockpits and vastly different stem angles. The Sequel cockpit has a -10 stem. The Tan Tan one has a -17 stem.

[Serge_K]

I'm considering this frameset for my future build. What is the best place to purchase it? Tantan or on aliexpress? People mentioned quite a few quality problems with both suppliers

i would email them and order by email, after you've asked them 1000 questions and made clear that if they send you a lemon, you'll give them hell.
Call it illusion of control, but in human nature, it's harder to fleece someone you've interacted with than a number on a nameless platform.
What we call fleecing in the west China calls standard business practice, quality fade is in the culture, trying tricks to get away with it is in the culture. Your best bet is to hedge that as much as possible.

[ejump0]

anyone here on tt-x38 with super wide innerwidth wheelset ~25mm? 
how do you like the ride with wide rim+tires. 

im looking at this frame + d50cu-33 wheelset. 
the cockpit will be using kocevlo 2 piece instead (i need metal stem to mount my controltech falcon mini+ full extension aerobars). 
and brifter will use some sensah just for mechanical disc brakes (for shifteng, i plan to use sram blips mount beside the brifter.


goal:
- this will be my roadbike for draft legal races, n road-specific touring bike, with clip on aerobars
- i plan to use mech disc brakes, so i can easily transfer my tt912 cockpit if im flying to races n wanna go faster than on my clipons
- groupset will be 1x 12 sram etap with just 2pair of blips (1pair on drops/base bar, another at aeroextension ends)

*unfortunately tantan is not flexible to create boss holes on toptube.

does anyone know what other frame has seat tube like tt-x38 (beside winow wr054)?

[lantz]

Here's my final review of this frameset after about one year of using it. I spread my riding across four different bikes, so I've done only somewhere north of 5.000 km on it. Still, that's plenty of riding to give a qualified verdict:

The geometry & fit:

It took me a long time to get comfortable on this bike and start to love it. Probably the longest ever. Part of that is down to the geo, I believe. In my particular case the seat tube angle and saddle position (plus finding a saddle I'm comfy with for this bike. The seat tube is steep - i mean really steep. That in combination with the chunky seatpost makes for a harsh ride - with 30mm tires, however, it's actually not that bad. But I need setback because I'm a big dude at 190cm with long limbs. Particularly my legs are long. And if you need setback, be aware that you'll quickly run out of room on this bike. I got my saddle all the way back and the clamp is also all the way back. And the saddle is still further forward than I got it on my VB-R218/Chinarello.

The geometry is not actually as aggressive as the looks might suggest - I found the bars to be too high for my liking even with a slammed cockpit. I needed to use the biggest frame size to get the desired reach and also, because I like the look of a slammed stem more than a tower of spacers. I do also think it makes for a stiffer interface all around to have the stem sitting more or less on top of the upper bearing and the expander reaching into the head tube. BUT the -10 stem wasn't low enough. So I ended up getting the Tan Tan bars and now I'm finally at the point where the fit is where I want it to be.

Long term durability

This bike has given me ZERO issues. I had a few hickups during the build which are more or less expected on super budget frames like this, but surprisingly little happened since then - no creaks, seatpost never slipped, BB is fine. The Thru Axles started creaking after hours of riding in heavy rain, but that's normal. I cleaned and greased them and all good.

The disc brakes were hard to get rub free initially but it worked. The front disc squeals no matter which pads I use - it might be the rotor or I might yet have to get it faced by a professional bike shop. But it's not super bad. Only real issue: The headset bearings are junk and you should probably not even bother using them. Because of the opening on the upper headset bearing's top cap, water gets in there when you wash the bike. The lower headset bearing had rust on it. It's still smooth but I reckon it's only a matter of time. And in fact on my Velobuild frame the lower headset bearing needed to be replaced in less than 6 months after riding in the rain. I think most of the headset bearings supplied with these budget frames are junk and at least the lower ones which are sujected to a lot more dirt, grime and water, should probably be best avoided.

The riding experience


So first of all, tire clearance is more than enough. My tires measure 31mm (Vittoria Corsa 28c on 25mm internal rims). Everything up to (actual measured) 34mm should be fine. The drive side chainstay will be the limiting factor.

I'm lacking comparison with other disc road bikes since this is the first disc bike I built (other than my gravel rig), but I'd say this probably rides as expected for a pure aero bike. It's devastatingly fast in a straight line - in fact the fastest bike I own. I score lots of PBs on descents which I put down to the aero attributes but also down to the brakes. I do brake harder and later with this bike, because I have the confidence to do so.
Steering is neutral, which is good for high speeds in a straight line while being tucked. Weight distribution is more front biased, which when climbing out of the saddle leads to the rear wheel skipping quicker than I'm used to. The BB is VERY stiff, which is good.

What struck me most is that because of the neutral handling, the bike doesn't actually feel as fast as it is. If you'd ask me to estimate my speed on this bike compared to my VB-R218, I'd reckon the 218 to be quicker. And yet it isn't - even if it's pretty close. The wheelbase is longer, fork trail slightly bigger and so it feels more muted. Therefore, it actually feels less exciting to ride at times. But once you appreciate the speed and the (for me) very comfy position, it's very enjoyable.

Conclusion


Looks are obviously a personal thing but I really like the color and the horizontal top tube combined with a -17 stem. It kind of looks classic, while the frame attributes are decidedly modern and aero.

IMO, this is not an allround bike. I have done very long rides on this bike (+220km / +130miles) and it's alright. I use it for everything, including gran fondos but I also race on it so I want to feel at home on it even on very long rides. But I'd argue that if you ride purely for enjoyment and if your main focus are epic and long days out with your mates and if you like comfort across all kinds of roads, there's probably more versatile options out there.

The one area where it definitely feels less inspiring is on very steep climbs. It's just not as nimble when dancing on the pedals. It's somewhere between my 218, which for some reason just really shines in those situations and my gravel bike, which feels a lot more sluggish, probably also because of the squishy big tires giving way when standing.

But it absolutely shines on descents. I mean it picks up speed super quick and it rails around bends, it behaves super predictive and I kind of feel I'd need a bigger gear than 52/11. I just spin out way quicker than I used to.

Buy this if you want to go fast and hard, if you race and if you enjoy a pretty uncompromising bike.

The biggest CON about this frameset might be the weight (if you care about that sort of thing). The frame is somewhere between 1100-1200g. The bike as pictured is just a touch below 8kg, including bottle cages, Garmin and front light mount and pedals. I think, that's already as light as it gets. I'm running a fairly light carbon crank, a monobloc steel cassette, a Super Record Hollow Pin chain, pretty light Xpedo pedals (I think around 270g) and 36g Ridenow TPU tubes. You could probably run an even lighter saddle, lighter tires and rotors. The wheels weigh 1450g so there's lighter options there as well. But this is never going to be a weight weenie bike. So while this is a great descender, it'd probably not be my first choice if I was living in the mountains. For the mostly flat terrain that I (have to) ride most of the time, it's perfect however.

Value for money


My main objective with this was to build the most price conscious equivalent of a modern aero bike that I could get. That included used parts bought on the German equivalent of Craigslist, for example the cranks and chainrings, the saddle, the brake calipers (which I used mainly cuz I don't like the look of the LTWOOs) and even the tires. It's a 580 USD frameset (incl shipping), sub 500 wheels, sub 500 mini-groupset, 250 for the powermeter + cranks, cassette, chain, rotors and finishing kit. Well, and I invested in another handlebar. The bike cost me somewhere between 2.000 and 2.500, which I think is remarkable value for money. The resale value is zero, that's just the way it is with direct 2 consumer china parts.

But I'm not afraid to race this bike and I thoroughly enjoy it.

Fuck yeah, lovely review Seb!

[c.etzo]

anyone here on tt-x38 with super wide innerwidth wheelset ~25mm? 
how do you like the ride with wide rim+tires. 

here with the peter's waved rims 34 external 25 internal hookless and GP5000TLR 32mm
tested for a ride of 70 km and seems very good

[Takiyaki]

Awesome review Seb, you just set the standard for reviews here.