Overwhelmed and not sure which rim brake frame to get

[Silock]

I have a set of 105 shifters and derailleurs, with an FSA crankset. I already have carbon rim brake wheels from Elite wheels and Superteams. My original plan was to just upgrade my current 2020 Specialized Allez (alloy frame with carbon fork), but the temptation to buy a new CF frame is pretty high.

Since I already have most of the things I need, I don't really want to splash the cash on a whole new groupset, new wheels and a new frameset, so I'd like to stick to rim brake.

The Specialized I have is endurance geometry and I'm a little trepidatious when it comes to buying a CF racing frame. I already run my stems slammed and with slightly longer reach, but I am a bit concerned that the geometry of these bikes just won't work for me. I'm also a bigger rider (88 kg), and riding the widest tires I can has done worlds for my comfort on the bike (28c currently).

All that being said, I'm just not sure what I should do. I'd like a frame that has some aero features, but obviously the fastest bike is the one that's the most comfortable for you for the longest. I'm just trying to grab some Strava KOMs around here and beat my own records. If the best fit IS a race bike, that's okay.

So, aero features, rim brakes, comfortable enough, and fits 28c tires. I'm just overwhelmed by how many choices there are. I'm not sure if the aero bikes are THAT much better for me than the lightweight bikes, considering I'm so big. I'm not sure those aero features are going to be the better choice when I can only get so small, and climbing is already not my strong suit. Sorry for this being so long. I'm just kind of at my wits' end. Would I be better off building up my current alloy bike with the 105 components, or is there a good enough frame out there that wouldn't be such a bad option for my situation?

[Serge_K]

Idk your riding or your FTP, but as unit myself (c.83kg), i'd recommend a disc brake bike with 50mm wheels, 60 if you mostly ride on the flat. Wide rims, at least 32mm, expensive tyres, so you can really get comfortable (even a 28C tyres would measure over 30mm) & aero (no exposed calbes, integrated cockpit, 36cm bars...)
I've been recommending the LT268, very cheap. A bit dated, not the lightest, but fast. Or go down the rabbit hole of finding something newer, lighter, and for what price. It was the best option i found when i bought these frames in 2023, but many models have come out since.
I own a supersix rim with campag carbon wheels; discs + wide rims are a different world of braking performance, speed & and comfort.
In fact a friend of mine, same size, weight, build, is still on his supersix. Same tyres & tubes. Anywhere but on steep stuff, there's a 20+ watts difference for the same speed. Assumption: our power meters read the same (we never tested that). He's on Assioma and i'm on Vector. His all setup is anti aero, mine is full aero. When we go downhill the speed difference is absolutely staggering.
You can get wheels for 500$, and a frame for 500$. You'd want full hydraulic braking. So basically you'd have to upgrade almost everything.
But that's only my 5 cents

Velobuild was having a clear out of some rim brake frames, last time i checked. You might get lucky there.

[Takiyaki]

TanTan TT-X39? SL7 clone, but with rim brakes and 32c clearance:

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4930.0.html

I will say this though- I recently did my first gravel build with 42c tires, and to be honest the difference in bump absorption between 42c @ 50 PSI and 25c @ 90 PSI on my road bike is not as huge as I imagined. So I wouldn't fret too much over a couple mm. Plus if you can get wider wheels you can run lower pressures on the same tire- though that will be tough with rim brakes.

Dont forget the option of mechanical disc either. Yes you will need new wheels but you can sell yours. That will open up your options for tire clearance substantially.

[00Garza]

TanTan TT-X39? SL7 clone, but with rim brakes and 32c clearance:

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4930.0.html

I will say this though- I recently did my first gravel build with 42c tires, and to be honest the difference in bump absorption between 42c @ 50 PSI and 25c @ 90 PSI on my road bike is not as huge as I imagined. So I wouldn't fret too much over a couple mm. Plus if you can get wider wheels you can run lower pressures on the same tire- though that will be tough with rim brakes.

Dont forget the option of mechanical disc either. Yes you will need new wheels but you can sell yours. That will open up your options for tire clearance substantially.

42s at 50 psi? I guess weight is a factor, but I run my 45s at about 30 psi. You could probably go a bit lower that 50 I think.

I was unaware there was a chinese rim brake frame that clears 32s. I'm kinda tempted to give it a go honestly.

[Silock]

Idk your riding or your FTP, but as unit myself (c.83kg), i'd recommend a disc brake bike with 50mm wheels, 60 if you mostly ride on the flat. Wide rims, at least 32mm, expensive tyres, so you can really get comfortable (even a 28C tyres would measure over 30mm) & aero (no exposed calbes, integrated cockpit, 36cm bars...)
I've been recommending the LT268, very cheap. A bit dated, not the lightest, but fast. Or go down the rabbit hole of finding something newer, lighter, and for what price. It was the best option i found when i bought these frames in 2023, but many models have come out since.
I own a supersix rim with campag carbon wheels; discs + wide rims are a different world of braking performance, speed & and comfort.
In fact a friend of mine, same size, weight, build, is still on his supersix. Same tyres & tubes. Anywhere but on steep stuff, there's a 20+ watts difference for the same speed. Assumption: our power meters read the same (we never tested that). He's on Assioma and i'm on Vector. His all setup is anti aero, mine is full aero. When we go downhill the speed difference is absolutely staggering.
You can get wheels for 500$, and a frame for 500$. You'd want full hydraulic braking. So basically you'd have to upgrade almost everything.
But that's only my 5 cents

Velobuild was having a clear out of some rim brake frames, last time i checked. You might get lucky there.

So, it looks like the LT268 comes in a rim brake version. I'm with you on the benefits of disc, but I just don't want to do that right now since I already have the 105 rim brake groupset and rims. I will eventually do a disc build with a top tier frameset, DI2, the works. But that day is not today. I want to get my FTP up closer to 400 before I do that, currently sitting at 325.

I was looking at the Velobuild ones, but most of them say the max tire clearance is 25c. Is that a lie? I'm not sure why they would be that low since they're direct-mount brake systems.

[Silock]

TanTan TT-X39? SL7 clone, but with rim brakes and 32c clearance:

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4930.0.html

I will say this though- I recently did my first gravel build with 42c tires, and to be honest the difference in bump absorption between 42c @ 50 PSI and 25c @ 90 PSI on my road bike is not as huge as I imagined. So I wouldn't fret too much over a couple mm. Plus if you can get wider wheels you can run lower pressures on the same tire- though that will be tough with rim brakes.

Dont forget the option of mechanical disc either. Yes you will need new wheels but you can sell yours. That will open up your options for tire clearance substantially.

I'm pretty comfy on 28s at the moment, so I could see how not going even larger is going to be that big of a difference. I do like that TanTan, but it doesn't seem to be quite SL7, but it does look like it might be slightly more compliant than the other frames I'm seeing.

[Sebastian]

I got a VB-R218 with direct mount rim brakes. I’m riding 28c tires which measure around 30mm. The frame and brakes easily clear those tires. I think you could get 32mm in there. It gets close at the chainstays but not the brakes. Rim width is more of a limiting factor IMO. My rims are 30mm wide. That’s the absolute max with my Campy calipers. Otherwise I’d have to start cutting down brake pads to still fit them in.

But on some frames the tire height can become an issue despite frame clearance and direct mount brakes if the calipers are mounted lower than usual.

But in general I’ve found that on modern/last generation rim brake frames, wider tires are actually not as much of an issue as most people think.

[ElRey]

Others here will be better placed to advise on specific China rim brake frame options, but if it helps to inform your thinking then:

- unless you specifically want a brand new frame then well worth looking on EBay and other marketplaces for used rim brake frame sets. I’m guessing you might be in the UK (‘wits’ end’) in which case there are some really good deals to be had on eBay rn for out-of-fashion carbon rim brake frames. Probably true in other countries too.

- plenty of good reasons to choose a frame that’s compatible with existing components rather than one that requires you to start again. But worth considering st least if you’re likely to want to upgrade those components at some point - if yes it could make more sense to bite the bullet now. Debates about performance aside, disc brake bikes on the whole allow more potential for bigger tyre clearance (although the 32 on that TanTan is wild).

- if you’re riding your endurance frame slammed with a long reach stem (130+) then that suggests you could afford to ride a more aggressive frame, at the very least with spacers and a shorter stem. If you find your Allez too sluggish, too unresponsive, too sit-up-and-beg - then you may want to get a frame with a more aggressive geometry. If you like the characteristics just fine, then - based on what you’ve said - no great advantage i wouldn’t have thought.

- you don’t give much detail on the type and amount of riding you are / want to do. i’m currently 87kg. I’ve got race bikes with 25mm tyres and endurance geometry bikes with up to 33mm tyres. The latter type is definitely more comfortable but the former does just fine because they fit me. If I want to go on a fast club ride I’m on the race bike, for commuting and longer, more leisurely rides, I’m not. If I could only have one type I’d go endurance geometry - for me, the speed and responsiveness benefit of the race bike isn’t great enough to trump comfort.

Hope that’s at least marginally thought provoking. Good luck!
 

I have a set of 105 shifters and derailleurs, with an FSA crankset. I already have carbon rim brake wheels from Elite wheels and Superteams. My original plan was to just upgrade my current 2020 Specialized Allez (alloy frame with carbon fork), but the temptation to buy a new CF frame is pretty high.

Since I already have most of the things I need, I don't really want to splash the cash on a whole new groupset, new wheels and a new frameset, so I'd like to stick to rim brake.

The Specialized I have is endurance geometry and I'm a little trepidatious when it comes to buying a CF racing frame. I already run my stems slammed and with slightly longer reach, but I am a bit concerned that the geometry of these bikes just won't work for me. I'm also a bigger rider (88 kg), and riding the widest tires I can has done worlds for my comfort on the bike (28c currently).

All that being said, I'm just not sure what I should do. I'd like a frame that has some aero features, but obviously the fastest bike is the one that's the most comfortable for you for the longest. I'm just trying to grab some Strava KOMs around here and beat my own records. If the best fit IS a race bike, that's okay.

So, aero features, rim brakes, comfortable enough, and fits 28c tires. I'm just overwhelmed by how many choices there are. I'm not sure if the aero bikes are THAT much better for me than the lightweight bikes, considering I'm so big. I'm not sure those aero features are going to be the better choice when I can only get so small, and climbing is already not my strong suit. Sorry for this being so long. I'm just kind of at my wits' end. Would I be better off building up my current alloy bike with the 105 components, or is there a good enough frame out there that wouldn't be such a bad option for my situation?

[Silock]

Others here will be better placed to advise on specific China rim brake frame options, but if it helps to inform your thinking then:

- unless you specifically want a brand new frame then well worth looking on EBay and other marketplaces for used rim brake frame sets. I’m guessing you might be in the UK (‘wits’ end’) in which case there are some really good deals to be had on eBay rn for out-of-fashion carbon rim brake frames. Probably true in other countries too.

- plenty of good reasons to choose a frame that’s compatible with existing components rather than one that requires you to start again. But worth considering st least if you’re likely to want to upgrade those components at some point - if yes it could make more sense to bite the bullet now. Debates about performance aside, disc brake bikes on the whole allow more potential for bigger tyre clearance (although the 32 on that TanTan is wild).

- if you’re riding your endurance frame slammed with a long reach stem (130+) then that suggests you could afford to ride a more aggressive frame, at the very least with spacers and a shorter stem. If you find your Allez too sluggish, too unresponsive, too sit-up-and-beg - then you may want to get a frame with a more aggressive geometry. If you like the characteristics just fine, then - based on what you’ve said - no great advantage i wouldn’t have thought.

- you don’t give much detail on the type and amount of riding you are / want to do. i’m currently 87kg. I’ve got race bikes with 25mm tyres and endurance geometry bikes with up to 33mm tyres. The latter type is definitely more comfortable but the former does just fine because they fit me. If I want to go on a fast club ride I’m on the race bike, for commuting and longer, more leisurely rides, I’m not. If I could only have one type I’d go endurance geometry - for me, the speed and responsiveness benefit of the race bike isn’t great enough to trump comfort.

Hope that’s at least marginally thought provoking. Good luck!

I thought about used frames, but those can be soooo sketchy. Not in the UK, so maybe I'm watching too many UK based content creators lol

I just don't have the wife-approved budget for anything besides a new frame at the moment. It would be irresponsible of me to do a whole new disc build right now, which is why I'm putting it off for a couple of years.

I don't think my Allez is too sluggish or unresponsive - it's just heavy and I feel like it's driving a brick through the wind. I often face some pretty hefty headwinds where I live in the US and it just doesn't do me any favors. I usually ride 500-700 miles/month, a mix of group rides and solo. No racing, but I love going fast (who doesn't?).

So I want something that's definitely faster than what I've got, but any reasonable upgrade would be fine. I just don't want to rattle the bones out of my body in the name of speed.

[rk]

I was hoping for more contributions on this query.
looking for a lightweight aero frame and also may need a spare set of wheels for rim brake so it goes up and downhill quickly
Really I don't care about tyre width. I'm quite happy with 25c @ 100psi for my 75kg body. Dropped down to 23mm for TTS, but happy with 25's.

After looking on this forum to no avail over the last year, I bought a custom Sarto rim-brake as my new top-end rather than going brand or chinertown, but interested in upgrading the winter bike. I'm worried about top end frames and wheels disappeaing for rim brake.

So if i am after a BSA BB frame and super lightweight 50mm wheels for rim brake any recommendations ?
I've never worn out rim brake wheels and done enough alpine/pyranean decents to be happy with old tech. Why downgrade ?

If I swap over wheels my 2nd bike with 9 speed dura ace weighs in at 6.9kg for a 25 year old ally frame. Should I stick or upgrade.
It looks like the whole of the top end bike industry and chinertown suppliers are going disk, but disk seems to me a solution waiting for a problem.

If the only reply's to this query are "upgrade to be benefits to disk", then thank you very much, I' ll just stop reading the forum, as chinertown is not for me. i thought there remained a niche for high quality rim-brake...

[acino]

Well, this is not a matter of whether the forum is right for you. Simply, the industry is heading to disc only brakes, especially as ebikes will be claiming larger and larger market share. It is inevitable and people will need to accept it sooner or later. I would also assume that at this point any rim brake chinese frames are done by old technologies, i.e. bladders.

[Sebastian]

If you’re looking for a cheap and reliable rim brake frame, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Velobuild VB-R066. It’s modelled after the Canyon Ultimate. Classic looks. Good geometry. Dirt cheap. They might however not have it in stock anymore, because demand died down obviously. But ask Chris. He might be able to help you. I think Lightcarbon also still has rim brake offerings. 

I totally feel your sentiment. Sure the industry goes disc. But some people are quite happy with what they have and might want to only upgrade wheels or whatever. It’s why I built myself what I consider my version of a peak rim brake bike. I had two wheelsets that I wanted to continue using. And a lovely 12sp Record mechanical groupset with direct mount brakes. And it’s just so nice to have a bike that pretty much just always works. I mean literally always. And you can just pop the wheels out, throw it in the trunk and off you go. No bent rotors or misaligned brakes.


But with all that said: Descending and wet braking on disc brakes is just the benchmark now. I’m fine with how my rim brakes work. But it’s not even a contest.

[Serge_K]

I was hoping for more contributions on this query.
looking for a lightweight aero frame and also may need a spare set of wheels for rim brake so it goes up and downhill quickly
Really I don't care about tyre width. I'm quite happy with 25c @ 100psi for my 75kg body. Dropped down to 23mm for TTS, but happy with 25's.

After looking on this forum to no avail over the last year, I bought a custom Sarto rim-brake as my new top-end rather than going brand or chinertown, but interested in upgrading the winter bike. I'm worried about top end frames and wheels disappeaing for rim brake.

So if i am after a BSA BB frame and super lightweight 50mm wheels for rim brake any recommendations ?
I've never worn out rim brake wheels and done enough alpine/pyranean decents to be happy with old tech. Why downgrade ?

If I swap over wheels my 2nd bike with 9 speed dura ace weighs in at 6.9kg for a 25 year old ally frame. Should I stick or upgrade.
It looks like the whole of the top end bike industry and chinertown suppliers are going disk, but disk seems to me a solution waiting for a problem.

If the only reply's to this query are "upgrade to be benefits to disk", then thank you very much, I' ll just stop reading the forum, as chinertown is not for me. i thought there remained a niche for high quality rim-brake...

Do you have friends irl? You post ONE message, and you somehow manage to send a strong "i dont want to interact with that person" vibe.
The wheels question is quite easy. Even artisan wheel builders in europe making super lightweight stuff often use "light bicycle" rims. Whether you buy rims in China or entire wheels will depend on your budget, and you can easily get quotes from both worlds (there are artisan wheel builders on youtube, they're easy to find). if you want run off the mill light stuff, the usual suspects can give you quotes (peter, farsposrts, yuanan...)
Frames are different, and because virtually nobody wants to ride rim bikes anymore, while you can find dozens of models on websites (flybike has a ton, for eg), idk how good the layups are, if they use EPS moudling, if it's old stock made with techniques from 5 years ago, and so on.
And given your tone, there's a good chance you'll be unhappy no matter what people say here say, so...

[Takiyaki]

I was hoping for more contributions on this query.
looking for a lightweight aero frame and also may need a spare set of wheels for rim brake so it goes up and downhill quickly
Really I don't care about tyre width. I'm quite happy with 25c @ 100psi for my 75kg body. Dropped down to 23mm for TTS, but happy with 25's.

After looking on this forum to no avail over the last year, I bought a custom Sarto rim-brake as my new top-end rather than going brand or chinertown, but interested in upgrading the winter bike. I'm worried about top end frames and wheels disappeaing for rim brake.

So if i am after a BSA BB frame and super lightweight 50mm wheels for rim brake any recommendations ?
I've never worn out rim brake wheels and done enough alpine/pyranean decents to be happy with old tech. Why downgrade ?

If I swap over wheels my 2nd bike with 9 speed dura ace weighs in at 6.9kg for a 25 year old ally frame. Should I stick or upgrade.
It looks like the whole of the top end bike industry and chinertown suppliers are going disk, but disk seems to me a solution waiting for a problem.

If the only reply's to this query are "upgrade to be benefits to disk", then thank you very much, I' ll just stop reading the forum, as chinertown is not for me. i thought there remained a niche for high quality rim-brake...

Maybe try asking your question w/o being so abrasive and pretentious. It is possible to ask about rim brake stuff without insulting disc brake stuff. Youre not some kind of hero or renegade for keeping rim brake going.

[jefflinde]

So, it looks like the LT268 comes in a rim brake version. I'm with you on the benefits of disc, but I just don't want to do that right now since I already have the 105 rim brake groupset and rims. I will eventually do a disc build with a top tier frameset, DI2, the works. But that day is not today. I want to get my FTP up closer to 400 before I do that, currently sitting at 325.

I was looking at the Velobuild ones, but most of them say the max tire clearance is 25c. Is that a lie? I'm not sure why they would be that low since they're direct-mount brake systems.

I have the velobuild r066 or whatever they called their endurance rim brake bike. I have 32c schwalbe ones and it clears fine. My frame is the non-internal routed frame but tire clearance should be the same on the newer one.