Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes?

[Sakizashi]

LoL they approached me. And we are almost nearing the end of summer. Most of my bike review obligations have been fulfilled. I already sold my SL8 frameset too so the components and groupsets are just sitting in a box anyway. It will be an easy swap. My first question was about the new fork.

This however doesn't make me any less of a hypocrite or a shill. But hey, a man can change his mind, right? RIGHT?

Honestly, this thread and the Cannondale fake thread feel like astroturfing at this point. The clickbait titles, which seem wildly misleading at this point, and the feeling that your influencing is the thing that elevated TanTan from a suspect low-quality supplier to being the topic of the most popular thread on this forum add up to that.

[Sander2177]

LoL they approached me. And we are almost nearing the end of summer. Most of my bike review obligations have been fulfilled. I already sold my SL8 frameset too so the components and groupsets are just sitting in a box anyway. It will be an easy swap. My first question was about the new fork.

This however doesn't make me any less of a hypocrite or a shill. But hey a man can change his mind right? RIGHT?

Of course you can! 🤣
Happy to hear your thoughts whether you get paid or not I could not give a f$ck myself good luck. to you!

[glepore]

I take all "influencer" content with a great grain of salt. But in some respects its no different than what the old mainstream press did for years-they got sent stuff by advertisers to review, so same risk of bias. Only difference is generally they had to send the product back after review.

That said, I'm curious to hear what Patrick has to say.

The fork in the photo is pretty clearly the revised fork-it has full depth inserts, the early forks lacked the hub side integral reinforcement.

I'm not all worked up over the fork issues, Specialized went through it with the sl7 and the compression ring, Cannondale with the frame stops etc. Its not uncommon in the industry. Its been addressed, lets not blow it out of proportion.

[Sakizashi]

Most influencers do demand payment or referral codes with a kickback to generate content and then fail to disclose it. They are fundamentally different than cycling journalists in that regard, and most people have fallen for it.

While Patrick should disclose his business relationships if they go beyond providing a frame to review as a matter of serving the viewers on his channel, the way I see it, he can do what he wants, and I can call it out as shilling or astroturfing or marketing or whatever.

[Sakizashi]

I'm not all worked up over the fork issues, Specialized went through it with the sl7 and the compression ring, Cannondale with the frame stops etc. Its not uncommon in the industry. Its been addressed, lets not blow it out of proportion.

This is a false equivalence. Specialized went and fixed every bike they sold with the correct parts. I have no idea about the Cannondale controversy, but we can look at the DT Swiss recall, the SRAM loctite "recall" and heck even the Shimano crank issue as being more proactive than what TanTan is doing. And Shimano is still getting sued over their problems.

[cramy]

did you guys got the Di2 Rear derailleur ICR grommet with the frame?

https://www.performancebike.com/shimano-di2-internal-wire-grommet-4-6mm-ismgm01/p374449?v=308992

[patliean1]

Patrick, do you get paid to make content on Tantan? Because i have to agree with  Sakizashi here, you're going to be advertising for the "only" brand in recent memory that was shit enough to ship product that straight up disintegrated. That's reviving fears of shoddy chinese carbon for 5+ years ago. And beyond that, Tantan seems ultimately to be a low quality / high variability clone peddler, it's not a great company to associate with.

Nope I don't get paid. And I don't offer nor accept any sort of upfront "flat fee" from brands either. Never have thus far. TanTan like most frame brands I've dealt with doesn't offer affiliate links either. So really the only gross income I make is maybe the $15-$20 USD from YouTube ad revenue, and whatever the frameset is worth down the line when reselling - which is practically worthless on the second hand market. So I have a closet filled with old cheap framesets that nobody wants.

For myself I just love building new bikes. It's a fantastic therapeutic hobby. Doesn't matter whether if it's a $4000 frame or $400. Bikes are just fascinating to me. I have zero attachment or feelings to any particular brand. My passion is the main reason brands even deal with me. That and my engagement with viewers. Because statistically my YouTube/IG is very low level compared to the Hambinis/GC Performances/Peak Torques of the industry. However, the $300 I make monthly from YouTube isn't exactly enough to reinvest into constantly buying new frames/wheels from a completely unbiased perspective. Even if I raised capital via GoFundMe or Patreon to fund new projects, someone will always make a stink about. Not to mention the hours upon hours of my time each week.

Sure other YouTubers are probably making loads of money. I am not one of them. This whole thing is truly a labor of love. So until someone provides a financial solution that doesn't put me in the red according to my accountant for the past 5 fiscal years, influencing helps subsidized an already expensive hobby. I earn no net income. Watch my videos or don't. Either way it costs me money in the end.

[JustinFox]

I actually feel for Patrick here.

I'm a retired graphic designer and photographer and I too am obsessed with bikes and cycling culture (building them as much as riding them).

I was just called out on the Weight Weenies forums for being in the industry and getting paid to do full blown marketing campaigns for brands and thus I am breaking the forum rules and should be registered as a trader.

In truth that upset me as to this date I have not received a single dollar from any brands. I have received small discounts from some brands in exchange for photos of their goods on my bike. I have received a couple of water bottles from a friend who asked me to take photos of her in her new MAAP gear (she's a MAAP Ambassador and the photos were used on her Instagram but MAAP never used the photos).

It's a double edged sword. On the one hand it must feel absolutely unreal for Patrick to get free frames and goods to review (personally I'd frikkin' love that and if you're being honest with yourself you probably would too). You can't underestimate what makes you happy, and I have no doubt at all that Patrick loves building up bikes. As a self confessed narcissist I also bet he loves the positive attention, but that said I bet he loathes the negative attention (which in reality will grow as his success grows), especially from fellow cyclists (we all love bikes, why can't we all just get along?!).

Can't say I like Patricks content (and that's OK), would never subscribe and do not place much value on his opinions, but I respect the obvious (to me) passion and obsession. He's very obviously into bikes and as someone who's also crazy about bikes and also spamming every forum/reddit/social media platform about bikes I have to say that IMHO most of the negativity is uncalled for and most likely comes from misunderstanding.

Patrick if you're reading this; From experience (I'm old AF) transparency is key (it'll help you sleep better at night!). With power comes responsibility so definitely take your power to influence a little more seriously as your channel and reach grows (if you inspired a kid to buy a replica frame and that kid dies because the frame blew up how would you feel?). As a fellow content creator, the more people pile on you the more I have your back. Keep doing what you love, more power to you!

[Ludo]

I am not to sure what is going on here. I watch most of Patrick vidéo, I am not a big roadie but I like the Guy and that’s my way to contribute/support. I don’t think he fails to say that he was sent a frame, or anything he tests, it seems to be in the open to me. He says here he doesn’t get paid either, his word are good enough for me, I don’t think we should expect anything more from him as far as transparency!
Patrick, you do you, you don’t owe jack to those who follow you and no more to those who don’t care for your content.
Peace!

[patliean1]

Every single cycling content creator that I consider either my counterpart or aspirational benchmark thinks I'm foolish for engaging with the internet community/forums. I speak to all these dudes on a regular basis offline. And you guys know all of these individuals I'm referring to.

Their argument is that internet folks don't represent the vast majority of paying customers for any given brand. I like coming here because affordable bikes keep my sanity. I've been here well before my YouTube channel was anything notable.

And speaking of notoriety...if you compare the (lack of) growth of my channel versus everyone else who started around the same time I did 4-5 years ago, I should have given up YouTube long time ago. 15k subs when everyone else now is at least at 30k-150k subs. Incredible. Clearly I'm doing something wrong. And clearly I don't make videos for money. Historically if you look at the very-well defined demographic of cycling in general why I would expect to be popular? There are hundreds of other channels people can identify with.

Whether ya call me a shill or just a chill guy, take solace in the fact I even make myself available to be called that. Quite literally I am at the bottom of the chain in terms of influence.

EDIT: I'll land my plane with this post LoL. This convo highlights why I like coming here. I'm a human being one-man show. Who just loves building bikes  Carry on...

[Sakizashi]

I kicked the hornet's nest, so I should clarify some stuff.

I chose my words carefully to reflect my thought that it "feels like astroturfing." I tried hard not to imply that was his intent when he started this thread 108 pages ago. That seems rather impractical. I do think @patliean1 is being annoyingly humble, or even unaware of his influence and clout and how it has affected this forum and the perception of TanTan.

[glepore]

I get why folks would think its foolish. But obviously, its not your means of support.  Its likely different for folks who need peeps to tune in. I honestly enjoy what you you have to say here, and while I look at your YT and Insta stuff, its more or less because of what you contribute here, otherwise it'd get lost in the YT jungle. And aside from one or maybe two channels, most of the YT stuff is garbage or mere self promotion. I don't think that's what you're up to.

But hey, I'm in my mid 60's and most of social media/influence/marketing is lost on me. Particularly the Hambini types who just shout about how smart they are.

[Willos]

Patrick, do you get paid to make content on Tantan? Because i have to agree with  Sakizashi here, you're going to be advertising for the "only" brand in recent memory that was shit enough to ship product that straight up disintegrated. That's reviving fears of shoddy chinese carbon for 5+ years ago. And beyond that, Tantan seems ultimately to be a low quality / high variability clone peddler, it's not a great company to associate with.

What better quality and lightweight frame would you advise to buy as an alternative? Which brand are more trustable?

[dovh]

What a read since my last visit! Looking forward to Patric's review. It would be interesting if he could get more background info from TanTan about this frame but i doubt they will share anything more.

Quick update from me. I replaced the fork and everything is working properly. It actually fits better than the old one, with a smaller gap between the top of the fork and bottom of the headset. Since I had to disconnect the hose anyway, I also swapped the headset spacers and top cap for original SL8 ones, which fit much better than TanTan's. See attached pictures.

quick response to the question in between that mayhem 

did you guys got the Di2 Rear derailleur ICR grommet with the frame?

https://www.performancebike.com/shimano-di2-internal-wire-grommet-4-6mm-ismgm01/p374449?v=308992

Yes, it was in the packet with other accessories.

[Lanzerman]

So, I've been lurking here for some time and sometime in early May I placed an order for a X68 with complete Ultegra di2 groupset and a set of 50/65 Falcon pro turbo from Light bicycle. The wheels are 34mm wide and I run Conti GP5k 30C that expand to 33mm. It is absolutely not a weight weenie build, focus has been on a mix of aero and comfort for endurance riding without explicitly trying to weigh the bike down. Don't have a good scale to weigh the bike but the bathroom scale says it's around 7,7kg. This is without wrapping the handlebars though.

The pros with Tantan is the comparatively low costs for both frame and groupset 2100$ inc. shipping to .se. Also the possibility for custom paint. I think the cons would be pretty much everything else though.

I ordered the frame painted matte red and matte black with a long gradient along the top tube and down tube. Gradient is good and is actually better in reality than what it looks like on the pictures. However it was not matte but painted in gloss.  Paint was ok on the frame, the fork has a few marks, some small like specks of dust in the color and one larger where it looks like something has touched the fork before the paint dried. Thankfully it's at least on the back of the fork. Brake mounts have some over spray and front brake was hard to install. Had to do a lot of filing to be able to install it in the first place and in the end I got help to do a professional facing for the front brakes.
Tantan also sent the wrong handlebars. I'm a small guy, frameset is size 49 and Tantan sent me 400x90 handlebars instead of the 380 I've specified. On my old bike I run 360 so this was already a compromise. And they're absolute a$$holes to deal with when it comes to something like this. If it is mentioned that they've made an error - the emails won't be answered. If I ask for at least some kind of discount for ordering a new handlebar - the emails won't be answered. I've been reluctant to install the wrong size handlebars for a while but now I've just installed them so I can at least ride the bike.
Also I didn't calculate seat post length and min insertion so now I've got about 85mm insertion. X68 should have 100mm insertion but SL is at 75mm. Since I'm a small light guy I'm not stressing over it and anyway Tantan doesn't want to talk to me about selling me a longer seat post or narrower bars.

Has anyone tried to fit Yoho seat post to the X68? Or can someone recommend any other SL8 style seat post that will fit?

It is unlikely that Tantan will receive more money from me so I've ordered the new HBR17 in 360x100 from LightCarbon. More expensive but it looks promising IMHO. I like that it is available in narrower size and I also like that it has some flare - if nothing else it will at least contribute to a sporty look. It is also available with spacers/adapter for SL8 if you ask nicely.


So far I have only made 4 rides and less than 200km on the bike and it sure is different from my old bike. The old is a repaired Focus Cayo (2013-2014 or something) with 35mm alu rims and mechanical 10s. Even if the new bike only is "current" the leap from the old bike is large enough to make it feel like I'm in the future now. The bike wants more speed and tighter corners so I think we'll have some good times together.

Paint job didn't turn out exactly like I wanted it but I think the way it actually turned out isn't bad either. Together with the wheelset I like the visual appearance and I think the new handlebars will also contribute to a sporty/racy look. Overall I'm happy with the bike and don't regret buying it although some of the experience with Tantan has been frustrating. Only drawback is now I can't blame the bike - now it is clear that the motor is the limiting factor. I think that if LightCarbon LCR018-D had been released before I bought the X68 I might have bought that one instead and made a build leaning more on comfort (and "aero looks") than actual aero. Would be interesting to build an endurance bike with deep section rims for 38-40c slicks but that's an entirely different project.