TanTan/Seraph TT-X69 - The Real SuperSix EVO Clone? Alternative to LC017-D?

[patliean1]

Not much info as of right now. And TanTan's website is currently down.
They seems to be on a roll with their latest clones. Thankfully this "interpolation" of the SuperSix EVO doesn't have bus like aerodynamics.

Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/p/DDMKHifu9q_/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

YouTube: TT-X69 New
https://youtu.be/W0N2F6Cz9xQ?si=QAXM0y3aPlRExVaJ

[Sakizashi]

It looks like another seller is trending towards fakes. I find this to be rather tragic, but it's not surprising as it seems to be what people want as the market splits into actual high-end frames from China and low-end fakes.

[patliean1]

My prediction towards future market trends is

-Flagship spec Western bikes will remain constant and recession proof. If you have $9,000 to $14,000 to waste, you really aren't looking at more value focused alternatives.

-"Middle ground" bikes in relation to their more expensive SLR/S-Works/Lab71 counterparts will continue to lose market share in favor of premium Chinese brands. Tavelo, Winspace, SEKA, and Yoeleo will slowly replace SL/Expert level bikes in the next 5 years. Multiple American pro crit teams already race on Winspace/Tavelo frames. And Winspace is currently the title sponsor for their world tour-level women's program.

-Legitimate OEM factories pumping out more clone/homage frames. Like @Sakizashi said, these companies are simply following customer trends and demands. I don't really endorse fakes but I'd rather buy one from a factory than a dodgy AliExpress dealer. And honestly I'd take this SS Evo clone from TanTan over their SL8. Visually this frame has a far better chance of actually being stiff and robust than that SL8 clone.

If the square downtube on the LC017 bothers you, although the aerodynamic myths have kind of been busted, this X69 might be a better alternative. The paint quality wont be as good but will be cheap and probably ride the same 

[toxin]

I don't mind taking ideas, but just straight copying is 

Mildly surprised they went all the way and did a delta steerer.

Not sure which myths you think were busted

[neobiker]

The Light carbon frame is still 250g lighter if that matters to you xD.

As for the price, I found TanTan and Light carbon to be in the same ballpark, maybe I get too expensive offers from TanTan xD

[pandinoyoung]

the bottom bracket shell and the horizontal stays are not very beautiful

[Bonpensiero]

the bottom bracket shell and the horizontal stays are not very beautiful

Unfortunately true. Hard to spiff these parts uo. Looks ugly

[Lotnik]

Do they even have Cannondale logo? What the...?

[Sebastian]

Mildly surprised they went all the way and did a delta steerer.

Yes, I was surprised to see this, too. I'd hope that they would at least simplify some of the unnecessarily proprietary aspects of frames like these. Like they did with the TT-X38 when they chose not to copy Scott's 1inch fork steerer and go with a regular design instead. But I guess when they do a clone, they just go all the way.

[Sebastian]

-"Middle ground" bikes in relation to their more expensive SLR/S-Works/Lab71 counterparts will continue to lose market share in favor of premium Chinese brands. Tavelo, Winspace, SEKA, and Yoeleo will slowly replace SL/Expert level bikes in the next 5 years. Multiple American pro crit teams already race on Winspace/Tavelo frames. And Winspace is currently the title sponsor for their world tour-level women's program.

+1 on that. I mean it's been happening already. Canyon had 3 tiers of Aeroads 2 iterations ago, IIRC. You had the CF version in two specs: a low spec mechanical version and a higher spec version with electronic shifting + the highest spec CF SLX frames with top spec components.

That's now been rebranded and moved up the spec/price ladder one step. There's now only the CF SLX and CFR frames which are (allegedly) even higher in spec than what used to be the top spec frame material. The lowest spec Aeroad used to have a separate bar and stem. In the age of fully integrated cables, the bike is now only available with a one piece cockpit and electronic shifting. What used to be the 2nd tier bike at roughly 4-5000 USD/EUR is now the entry level for this model. For that money, you could obviously build a Tavelo/Winspace etc with at least similar or superior spec components and customize fit in the process.

It seems the lower end market now more or less belongs solely to Chines D2C sellers. Either you buy an open mold or a straight up clone. But the established brands don't really offer anything at this price point. Except for aluminium frames maybe.

[fhill]

Interesting, but with being more than 1kg weight unfortunatly out for me.. and the delta steerer just kills it..

[patliean1]

Of all the road frames I've ever built and reviewed only two have came under 1000g for a size 56:

Tarmac SL8 Pro - 827g
Winspace SLC3 - 829g

I'd call myself a moderate weight weenie. But writing off a $600 frame because it doesn't weigh sub-1000g is concerning. Especially for an aero/all-around frameset. Irrespective of that delta steer tube.

I actually prefer my cheap frames to be around 1000-1100g anyway. It's a built-in insurance policy from the brands just in case I sprint or crash, the frame doesn't catastrophically explode underneath me.

Light, stiff, cheap. Pick two...but you can't have all three.

[fhill]

Of all the road frames I've ever built and reviewed only two have came under 1000g for a size 56:

Tarmac SL8 Pro - 827g
Winspace SLC3 - 829g

I'd call myself a moderate weight weenie. But writing off a $600 frame because it doesn't weigh sub-1000g is concerning. Especially for an aero/all-around frameset. Irrespective of that delta steer tube.

I actually prefer my cheap frames to be around 1000-1100g anyway. It's a built-in insurance policy from the brands just in case I sprint or crash, the frame doesn't catastrophically explode underneath me.

Light, stiff, cheap. Pick two...but you can't have all three.

I'm totally on board with you and I'm sure it's a good frameset, it's just that I want a new frame that's lighter and maybe more aero than my Tarmac SL6 copy from Delihea. And I just think this frame isn't the one for that purpose. I think for m purpose either the LCR 17 or the Tantan X68 or the new announced X67 are the ones to go
The deal breaker for me in the end is the delta steered

[Sakizashi]

-Legitimate OEM factories pumping out more clone/homage frames. Like @Sakizashi said, these companies are simply following customer trends and demands. I don't really endorse fakes but I'd rather buy one from a factory than a dodgy AliExpress dealer. And honestly I'd take this SS Evo clone from TanTan over their SL8. Visually this frame has a far better chance of actually being stiff and robust than that SL8 clone.

Given my stance in previous threads, I obviously harbor deep disdain for homages and copies. However, there is one aspect that really bothers me that has little do with protection or counterfeiting; it's the assumption that buying these from a "better" source or one that's made more cleanly will result in a product that's closer to the original in terms of performance and reliability.

One of the big problems with copying a high-performance frame is that the originals fly close to the sun with their designs because they need to try and get that performance edge. I know most people aren't using their bikes in race conditions, but they don't have access to WT or pro team quality mechanics as frequently as racers, either. Remember that the Factor Ostro VAM had a few broken steerers, the Dogma F a lot of cracked chain stays and seat tubes, the SL7 had an infamous recall. On the Cannondales, the pro teams are gluing in expander plugs to resolve headset compression issues and not using the top-spec frames.

Do you really want 1:1 look-alike copies of these designs made with different materials and layups?

If you check the threads on the copies it seems like many of the copies suffer from the same issues at a higher rate + get the regular issues with low cost frames in terms of poor headsets and inability to hold preloads which is yet another issue.

[neobiker]

Of all the road frames I've ever built and reviewed only two have came under 1000g for a size 56:

Tarmac SL8 Pro - 827g
Winspace SLC3 - 829g

I'd call myself a moderate weight weenie. But writing off a $600 frame because it doesn't weigh sub-1000g is concerning. Especially for an aero/all-around frameset. Irrespective of that delta steer tube.

I actually prefer my cheap frames to be around 1000-1100g anyway. It's a built-in insurance policy from the brands just in case I sprint or crash, the frame doesn't catastrophically explode underneath me.

Light, stiff, cheap. Pick two...but you can't have all three.

Time for a "go fund me" on the TT-X68 for review.