Rode a 29+ Trek Stache

[Carbon_Dude]

We had a bicycle demo at the local trail over the weekend, funny part was it was a Santa Cruz demo, not a Trek Demo.  However, one of the other guys showed up to the event with his Trek Stache 9 (29er+) and let me ride it while he did a demo ride on a Santa Cruz Hightower 27.5+ bike.  We rode a 10 mile loop, about an hours worth of riding.

The Stache was so much fun I am not seriously considering building up a Chinese 29+ hardtail for myself!

The Stache had the Bontrager Chupacabra tires that just gripped so well it was nothing short of inspiring.  I could take any line, bumpy or smooth, through a turn and it just didn't matter, the tires soaked up the rocks and roots.  The bike made the trail feel 50% smoother.  On the flat stuff the bike also felt very smooth, the tires even hummed along like an off road truck tire does on the street.  I've never "heard" my tires rolling along in the dirt on any other bike I've ridden.  The tires were dialed in at 14psi and worked very well at that pressure.  I'm sure if I added a bit more pressure it might feel different, maybe quieter.

The bike felt very maneuverable, not that much different than my 29er with 2.4" tires.  To me, it rarely felt like I was on a bike with 29"x3.0" tires.  I just felt like I was on a 29er that had tons of grip.  Loose sand, no problem.  Muddy spots, no problem.  The tires never slipped.  The only time you would feel anything is if you were turning just slightly at speed, that's when you feel a bit of angular momentum or gyroscopic effect from the bigger wheels.  I'm sure a set of carbon wheels would decrease that a bit as well.  The owner told me he weighed the Chupacabra tires and they were less than 900gr each.  He also said they don't wear fast, 1700 miles and still looked like they had 50% remaining which is good since they are a $120 tire.

There were two faults I would post about this bike.  One is the fork.  I'm not a fork snob, to me as long as it soaks up bumps any fork is fine.  However, the Manitou Magnum Pro fork was not very good.  On big hits it was just jarring, it did fine on small to medium bumps but the larger hits or small drops is where this fork is lacking.  If I were to build a bike, I would not choose this fork.

The second thing, and it's not really a fault, is the rear seat stays were wide enough that I could feel my calves lightly rubbing against them.  I could also feel the seat stays when coasting, I would kind of rest my leg against them.  It's not like my shoe heal was hitting the frame which would be a deal breaker.  This wasn't too bothersome, I think it's something that I could easily live with, but it was worth noting.

The frame was a 20.5" (XL) and I thought it would feel big but it didn't, it felt similar to my 19" -057.  The owner of the bike did say he changed out the stem to a 50mm one and put on carbon riser bars.  I'm 5'-11" so it made me wonder why it did not feel like an even bigger bike.  However, if you read the size chart on Trek's website, the Stache does have funny sizing.  I may get the chance to ride a Large Stache 8 this Friday as another guy from a local bike shop said he would bring one up to the trail for me to try out.

After riding the Trek Stache 9, I rode the Santa Cruz HighTower 27.5+ bike.  I was ready to give the bike back after just 10 min of riding.  It just didn't have half the fun factor for me.  However, the owner of the Trek Stache loved riding the HighTower and is seriously thinking of buying one.  To each his own I guess.

[bxcc]

So which 29+ Chiner frame did you order? 

[Patrick C.]

How was the 27.5+ so different?   Not as easy to roll over stuff, or something about the geometry?

[Carbon_Dude]

So which 29+ Chiner frame did you order? 

Have not ordered one yet.  I would even consider getting a Trek Stache frame if it did not have a PF30 bottom bracket.

[Carbon_Dude]

How was the 27.5+ so different?   Not as easy to roll over stuff, or something about the geometry?

Comparing the 27+ tire to a 29+ tire, of course the grip was better on the bigger tire.  I nearly washed out the 27+ front tire in a sandy corner where the 29+ didn't cause me a problem.  The 27+ just felt like a smallish 29er with a little more grip.  Not a huge difference although I am sure there was more grip than on my -036 with 2.4" tires.  Which is why another possible upgrade I may do is put on a set of 40mm wide 27.5 wheels on my -036, which may also fit on my -057.  So just having another wheel option would open up more choices on how I could setup either bike. 

Other problems with the SC HighTower includes more suspension travel than I would ever need, more weight than I want, a terribly uncomfortable saddle, bars that are way too wide for trails that have trees, grips that would need to be replaced with some that I would like better.  Sure those last three items are easily replaced but why should I need to after spending $8k on a new bike? The bottom bracket and stem creaked, and the dropper seat post wasn't worth the weight, cost, and complexity for my riding style.

On the plus side, the suspension worked well and I got to demo an expensive bike on my local trails which helped learn more about the type of bike that works well for me.

In the end, I'd pick the Stache, or Chiner+ equivalent, since I already have an -036 that, with a set of 27.5 wheels and 2.8" tires, would come very close to giving me as good or better ride characteristics of the HighTower without spending a large amount of money.

[Patrick C.]

Even if the bike sucked, you could offer moustache rides to every lady at the trailhead

[Carbon_Dude]

Even if the bike sucked, you could offer moustache rides to every lady at the trailhead

I think that was funny but am not sure  .


Anyway, rode another Trek Stache today.  This time the 19.5" size instead of 21.5", much more my size.  Wow, that bike continues to impress me.  The 29"x3.0" tires just roll over everything, but not like a fat bike, the bike is still nimble with lots of control and no tire squirm.  I didn't need to even bother looking for the smoothest line over the rocks and roots (and this trail was extremely rocky and rooty today).  You just take the shortest line and roll over everything!  Very little loss of momentum and I'm sure as I ride a 29+ bike more, I will be just as fast as on my other bikes.

I was close to just buying a Stache from the shop that put on the demo, but the discount they offered was very small, basically would not even cover the sales tax.  So, I'm not sure at this point if I will be buying a complete bike or building.

If I build a 29er+ Chiner (probably the Workswell frame), I will be spending about $3,600 for all the parts but will have the bike fully customized.  If I buy a Stache 7, I'm in for about $2200 with a GX drivetrain and SRAM Guide brakes.  Not bad for the money but no carbon bits at all.  If I upgrade to a Stache 9, pricing is closer to $3500 but I would at least get XT brakes and an X1 drivetrain.  Decisions, decisions. 

Maybe I should order the Workswell frame and wait for the SRAM Eagle 1x12 drivetrain to be release in a few months  .

[Carbon_Dude]

...And the winner is!  The Trek Stache 7.



UPDATE:  So, for me, my new 29+ bike will not be a Chiner+ build.  I spent some time trying to decide but in the end went ahead and put in my order at my LBS for a Stache 7.  I know, I know, no carbon frame, no carbon wheels, no carbon seat post or carbon bars.  However, the price was very reasonable for what you do get.  I am sure I will end up ordering carbon wheels, post, and bars from Peter in the near future and sell off those parts to recoup some of the cost.

I bought the bike complete for a couple reasons:

1) I could not build a Stache 7 for $2150 myself.  Partly because I would be using upgraded components if I were to piece together a 29+ bike.  Sure the Workswell 29+ frame is cheaper but no matter how I would spec out my own build I'd be spending another $1,000 for a GX level Chiner+ or $1,600 more if I spec'd the bike out similar to my other bikes (XX1, XT).

2)  The Stache 7 does come with a SRAM 1x11 (GX) drivetrain which felt decent, not quite as snappy as my XX1 but good enough.  Avid brakes with 180mm rotors front and rear.  The Manitou Magnum fork also felt way better on the LBS Stache 7 demo bike that it did on the Stache 9 I borrowed from a friend and rode at the trail. 

3) I really liked the way the Trek rides.  The geometry of the Stache really works well (see, I made a pun there).  Despite being an Aluminum frame (which I thought I'd never go back to because of the harsh ride), the big tires already damp the harshness of the trail making the frame material less important for ride comfort.  The HT angle was exactly what I like, not too slack nor too steep.  The BB height was good, not easy to get pedal strikes on this bike. 

4)  The people at the LBS were really great to work with.  I know they want to sell bikes, but they went out of their way to make sure I was happy with my purchase.  They were able to kick in a reasonable discount to close the deal.  I haven't picked up the bike yet, it will be available next Thursday for me to pick up.  I asked the shop to go ahead and convert the bike to a tubeless setup since Trek already provides the valves and rim tape.  Going tubeless should bring the total weight down to about 28 lbs, which is 8 lbs heavier than my -057, but when riding I didn't feel the bike was that much heavier.

5)  I like the color .  Some people don't like a purple bike but to me, the color scheme looks sharp.  When I was talking to Candy at Workswell, she said she could not paint metallic colors which I thought was a bit disappointing as Peter's guy can and did do a metallic teal blue for my -057.

[Patrick C.]

Nice!  Now I'm worried I'll have to buy a plus frame or bike

[Carbon_Dude]

Just don't ride a 29+, ignorance is bliss.  Besides, you now have a 27.5+ which gets you half way there.

[jja]

Congratulations, I hope you enjoy it. Keep us posted on your experiences even if it's not a direct Chiner+.
Your 5 points are sound too. 1) I did the same when I first got into 29er and got a GF Rig. But as to (5) I waited for the black rig over the purple (which also had upgraded components). For 29+ I still want singlespeed so (2) is out. (3) and (4) are a no-go for me this time round. I had to wait for the second Rig to come out, I won't for Stache and the Trek LBS is now entirely unhelpful. I'd still like to ride a Stache, and ideally a Workswell right afterwards. I will probably go for the WW though and watch for a cheap Stache frame.

Have fun and thanks for the thread, it's been informative.

[Sitar_Ned]

Congrats of the new ride CD. Having never ridden a plus size tire I'm a bit surprised to hear it was such a noticeable improvement as to cause you to buy a new bike. I definitely will have to check one out if I get the chance.

Does this one have improved fork over the one you disliked so much?

[Carbon_Dude]

jja, for you wanting a SS 29+, it sounds like a Workswell frame would fit your needs well, although the sliding dropouts on the Stache frame does have an advantage for a SS setup.  Not to mention the SS Stache 5 is sold out right now, Trek is not taking any backorders.  Seems like Trek underestimated the popularity of this bike.

Ned, I hadn't really planned on getting another bike either, but you know how those demo rides work, when you find something you really like, an enjoyable test ride really pulls you in.  I was thinking about just getting a set of 27.5+ wheels to throw on either the 057 or 036 but the Stache was much more of a different kind of bike.  With 27.5+ wheels I think they make a noticeable improvement on a bike I already like and even be a little faster.  However, the Stache has an all new feel to it.  Loads of grip all the time, and a good riding position.  I don't know if I will be as fast on a 29+ but I sure will have a big grin on my face while riding it.

As for the Manitou Magnum fork, the one I rode on the 21" Stache 9 was either setup poorly or has something wrong with it.  The shock was too abrupt when you went over a larger root or a small drop.  I also remember the headset needed to be tightened down on that bike, and we did pull out a hex key and fixed it on the trail, however, it didn't change the jarring feel the fork had on bigger hits.

I did not experience the same issue with the Manitou on the 19.5" Stache 7 demo bike.  At the demo I took the Stache 7 out for a quick 2 mile loop, brought the bike back to the mechanic and asked if she would drop 2 psi air out of the tires and 20 psi out of the fork.  BTW, the LBS has a very nice looking Service Manager.  Just those two adjustments made a significant improvement in how the Stache rode.  I also adjusted the seat height, brakes, and shifter.  I had the demo bike setup almost as if it were my own.  I really felt comfortable on the Stache and could have ridden that bike for another couple hours.

After I gave back the Stache, I had a very tasty lunch at a food truck that was at the bike demo, and then took out a Fuel EX 8 and really didn't like it at all.  Like the SC Hightower I rode the previous weekend, I knew in the first mile it was not a bike I would want.  More suspension travel than I need, more slack HT angle than I like, I've moved on from a 2x10 drivetrain, and it just not all that comfortable to ride.  Even though many of the bike mags like the Fuel EX 8 29er and say it's a great bike for the money, it just wasn't what I was looking for and not half the fun to ride as the Stache.