ZTTO MTB M1 Boost hubs 28H 54T Ratchet

[carbonazza]

...lace these with a set of DIY dyneema spokes and carbon rim from Btlos ...

Do you have some more details about this?

[Aliexpress Test Pilot]

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/make-your-own-polymer-uhmwpe-spokes.1091276/

Look here page 19-20 some guy bent spoke ends and tig welded it.
then put it together using kitesufing line and some fancy eyesplices.

I've tested soldering and it works fine.  rope breaks before spoke end does >180kg.
a bit fiddly getting it to stretch out to the correct  length.  but about 1/2 the weight of a good spoke.
some prestretching is likely neeeded to set the eyesplices properly



inspired by berd spokes. but in my opinion a more elegant solution and a work around their patents. 
I've got a few spokes made up like this in my existing wheel build to see if they cause any problems or stretch badly causing out of true scenerio
I'm using regular dyneema kitesurfing line and haven't bothered with the DM 20 cause I have tons of the regular stuff laying around and am wondering if it'll creep badly or if it's good enough.

[carbonazza]

https://www.mtbr.com/threads/make-your-own-polymer-uhmwpe-spokes.1091276/

Wow... What a thread.
Thank you!

[emu26]

Spynergy were doing mountain bike wheels with PBO spokes years ago. I have had a set for almost 9 years with zero issues, they are almost indestructible. Coincidentally, I sold them, along with the Racer-X that had them on it just last week.  But we digress.

I am interested to know if these "boost" hubs are genuine boost spacing or if they are made up to boost spacing with spacers?

[tripleDot]

I suspect that the replacement ratchets  ztto sells could be different possibly better made than what is in those hubs. The hubs are pretty generic around AliExpress with many different names and logos

Ever consider matching these hubs with the ZTTO 56T rachet upgrade kit? Your high-torque & rough-trail ride review would compliment my long-distance & heavy-load review.

[Bajker]

Here's a detailed drawing of this hub.

[cst_jpr]

inspired by berd spokes. but in my opinion a more elegant solution and a work around their patents. 
I've got a few spokes made up like this in my existing wheel build to see if they cause any problems or stretch badly causing out of true scenerio
I'm using regular dyneema kitesurfing line and haven't bothered with the DM 20 cause I have tons of the regular stuff laying around and am wondering if it'll creep badly or if it's good enough.

You basically have to use DM20, its going to creep and lose tension over a period of weeks or months. Even if you happen to have SK78 or similar.
But please post a new thread if you have some results showing otherwise, or photos, etc.

[Funks]

Bearings:

The Rear Hub Driver (Microspline) uses 2x - 6802-2RS bearings.
The Rear Hub uses 2x - 6902-2RS bearings.
The Front Hub uses 2x - 18307-2RS bearings  (for DT Swiss Bearings: HSBXXX00N2148S)

I built a wheelset using these hubs, they look great so far but replaced the bearings proactively (Japanese Bearings, EZO, or IJK).  I used DT Swiss Spoke Calculator (which was spot on for these as well when I chose DT 240S Straight Pull, 28H for the front hub) to calculate spoke lengths.

Coupled this hub with the DT Swiss EX511 Rims (29er, 28H), Sapim CX-Sprint Spokes, and DT Swiss Squorx Pro Brass Nipples (ProLock).   If I were to do it again, I'd go with the SAPIM Double Square Brass nipples instead.   The Squorx Pro Brass nipples I got are colored black, I'm assuming the coating DT Swiss used added some thickness to the nipples and it was a pain to get the DT Swiss Squorx Nipple Driver to mate with some of the nipples properly.

[Funks]

Some feedback on this.   Took it for my first ride today, tried to put some power down goingnuphill with the hubs and the star ratchet broke.   Maybe I put on too much DT Swiss Grease on the mating surface when I assembled it?  Maybe the steel used on the star ratchets ain't up to snuff for the amount of teeth?   Anyways, once it slipped, looks like the teeth got damaged and it didn't want to engage anymore.

Had to hunt down a DT Swiss Genuine 54T Star Ratchet (pain in the ass to find in stock at our local bike shop) service kit (117$ ouch), and installed it. Climbed one of our local hills and it looks like it's holding just fine.

[Funks]

Personally, if I were to build future wheel sets with these guys, I'd proactively replace the bearings, the ring nut with the DT Swiss Metal version (HXDXXX00N1131S) 7$, and replace the star ratchet springs as well (2x of HXDXXX00N1087S) about 3$ each, if you are using ZTTO's star ratchet.   Lastly, see if you can snag these with the 36T ratchet instead of the 54T.   Or best yet, snag the DT Swiss 24T Star Ratchet kit (HWTXXX00NSKTFS) which comes with new springs, and the special grease for 44$.

as for bearings

It uses 2x 18307-2RS bearings up front hub (DT Swiss sells replacements - HSBXXX00N2148S).   DT Swiss calls these 6903-2RS but they aren't.   Real 6903-2RS bearings are 17x30x7, not 18x30x7.

[Confused]

@Funks Do you think the springs are what led to your star ratchets failing?

[cst_jpr]

Personally, if I were to build future wheel sets with these guys, I'd proactively replace the bearings, the ring nut with the DT Swiss Metal version (HXDXXX00N1131S) and replace the star ratchet springs as well (2x of HXDXXX00N1087S) if you are using ZTTO's star ratchet.   Lastly, see if you can snag these with the 36T ratchet instead of the 54T.   Or best yet, snag the DT Swiss 24T Star Ratchet kit (HWTXXX00NSKTFS) which comes with new springs, and the special grease for 44$.

as for bearings

It uses 2x 18307-2RS bearings up front hub (DT Swiss sells replacements - HSBXXX00N2148S)

Uses 2x 6902-2RS bearings on the rear hub main bearing (replaced these with EZO Japanese Bearings).   The free hub I bought it with is the microspline variant which uses 2x 6802-2RS bearings).   The HyperGlide variant of the free hub uses 2x 6902-2RS bearings.   Will find out what the XD variant uses.

At that point its cheaper to just buy the DT hub: https://www.bike24.com/p281576.html
but thanks for posting the relevant part numbers.
18307-2RS = 6903-2RS. nm

[Funks]

Be careful with 6903-2RS bearings as the standards says they are 17x30x7.   The 18307 are 18x30x7  The question is, why does the rubber seals on genuine DT Swiss 18307 bearings on them say 6903?   Who knows.   Good luck trying to use a real 6903-2RS bearing (17mm bore) and making it fit correctly on an an axle that needs 18mm bore.

As for not buying a DT Swiss 350?   Well, I got the ZTTO M1's for about 95$ shipped.  With better bearings, you are looking at (+57$), the DT Swiss Metal Ring NUT (+10$).  162$ (front and rear set) ain't bad at all specially if you can get the M1 with the 36T ratchet from ZTTO.    Pretty sure that's half the price of a DT Swiss 350 pair while being as light as the 240.   Money saved can be used to buy actual tools to service the hubs.   

The parts that will break on this hub (ratchets, bearings, hub driver) are all replaceable with DT Swiss 240, 350 components and those are available at local bike shops which is what piqued my interest.  Good luck trying to find replacement pawls, parts, and etc for other type of hubs out there when something breaks on your bike and you really want to get back riding the next day.

[Funks]

@Funks Do you think the springs are what led to your star ratchets failing?

Don't really know why the teeth sheared, maybe it's the springs?  (those are cheap though at 3$ each).   Maybe I put on too much DT Swiss Grease (didn't think so)?   Maybe it's the metallurgy of the star ratchets ZTTO sells?  Or maybe 54T just might not be reliable enough for someone that weigs 215 lbs.

Either way, the DT Swiss 54T ratchet that I have been holding up so far on the M1.   I do carry the genuine 24T (best bang for the back for a genuine star ratchet as it comes with the special grease as well, and 2 springs) one in my bag though as I don't fully trust these 54T ratchets (regardless of them being genuine DT swiss or a clone).

I'm building two more wheel sets with these hubs (one 29er, and another 27.5), and will also re-lace my XC bike's wheel with the ZTTO DR190 which has the same guts as the M1s (for older, non boost bikes, J-Bend, ISO 6 bolt disc).   They are all getting bearing replacements, spring replacements, metal ring nut replacement, and finally the 36T clone ratchets (from ZTTO or otherwise).    Will post in the future how they hold up.

[cst_jpr]

Be careful with 6903-2RS bearings as the standards says they are 17x30x7.   The 18307 are 18x30x7  The question is, why does the rubber seals on genuine DT Swiss 18307 bearings on them say 6903?   Who knows.   Good luck trying to use a real 6903-2RS bearing (17mm bore) and making it fit correctly on an an axle that needs 18mm bore.

Thanks for catching that, was just about to order the wrong one. Quote from reddit: "there is no number for 18mm so fulcrum (and DT swiss) choose the closest number possible for their custom bearings." wow.. can they not just print the metric dims instead for all bearings, so much simpler.

Agree that the compatibility aspect of the hub design is great.