Full suspension AM ~140mm chiner for virgin builder.

[Janchi]

Hello,

I am an 25 year old biker. Currently seated on Trek Rumblefish Elite since 2013 (120/120mm). I am really satisfied with it. But asi it turned 8 years old, my adventurous mind want something new, something made of carbon and 1 by 12 .  So i looked up on the internet and found that this something is 4000+€(4800+usd). And also i want to try a bit higher travel. I've always wanted, but in 2013 was the world of bikes alot different and 120mm on 29er were considered AMish and almost crime for gravity oriented bikers. And than I found this forum, and immediately got excited about building my own bike. As I do all the repairs and service of my bikes myself, I think this task will be manageable for me (only press-fit is something i never did, because of having no tools and need to).

So my quest is now clear AM 29er ~140mm . Not afraid of technical trails and chasing XC hardtails the way up . Found good deal on new 2021 Marzocchi Bomber Z2 140mm so pulled the trigger as the first part of the puzzle. 

Got really excited about DengFu M08/TanTan FM08/LightCarbon LCFS713. Found all the topics here on the forum, but not much experience from longer term usage shared. I really like the linkage design as it is similar to my current Rumblefish. Compared the geometry with the bikes from mainstream manufacturers i considered (Scott Genius, Trek Fuel EX, Orbea Occam) and found that, its is very similar except higher stack vs. Scott and Trek (similar to Orbea) but they've got lower head tube so that's the difference I think. And shorter reach than all of them, but still 26mm longer than my current Rumblefish. So from paper riding experience I think it's suitable for me.

Dived a bit into the technical analysis and got headache from it .  Found conclusion that its nicely progressive but really couldn't make my head around the anti-squat and anti-rise. So much info on the web is going against each other. Should I care much abut these two parameters? I will almost certainly use Cane Creek DBair Inline to prevent disappointment from buying not right tune of shock from RS or Fox (don't want to fiddle that much like custom tuning shims etc.). So the Climb mode is present. I don't know how much of a deal the anti-squat is when climb mode is activated. 

Is there some other frame from some direct sale company? Don't want to go the Aliexpress way the first time I mess around chiner.

LC is a bit cheaper for the goods but have really outrageous shipping price (although it explicitly states that it includes the customs and taxes). But i really like the way the DengFu eshop (https://www.dengfubike.com/) looks and works. They also states that the DPD shipping option to EU covers the taxes for much better price than LCs offer. Have anyone in here experience with this way of acquisition of DengFu frame (not the usual one with email inquiry)?

Other components will be chosen later on the way. I want price conscious build. Drivetrain will be 12s Deore with som lighter cranks (SLX or XT). 4 piston Deore brakes. Suspension as I mentioned 2021 Marzocchi Bomber Z2 140mm and Cane creek DBAir Inline 210 x 50.

What do you think, is this frame good for chiner novice? The frame is relatively long time in production so I hope its time proven

Thanks!

[carbonazza]

All frames described here are good for a novice.
Avoid too-good-to-be-true counterfeit models. Take a brand that has good reputation here.
You will learn along the way, and ask questions here if in trouble.

To know if the FM936 would be right for me, I tried to understand the anti-squat things too.
But dropped the research and took the frame as I couldn't find an easy to understand or consistent theory.
I feel some bobbling from the shock(unlocked) when climbing, but I'm generally faster than with the hardtail.

[RobertRinAustin]

I like the Carbonda FM1002. It's a bit more travel at 150 mm, but has modern geo with 78° HTA and 64.5° STA. It's new, so not many reviews. I've ordered the AM831 on the group buy  which is the SC Hightower clone, VPP with 150 mm travel. Again, it's new, so only a few people have one, but they seem happy with it.

http://www.carbonda.com/mountain/full-suspension/134.html

[Julian]

Based on the info that lightcarbon show on their website, anti squat lies at about 90 percent at sag, which is not too bad. I'm not an expert myself, but from what I've picket up, 100 percent is the rough goal for pedal friendly bikes. In an ideal world, that means that when you push on your pedal, the inertia force that compress the rear suspension and the drive train's "pulling" force that extends the rear suspension are perfectly equal. But that never happens. Way too many things that change, like pedaling techniques, different sag setups, upper body movements, even the size of your chain ring has a huge impact.

So yeah, 90 percent should do the job just fine. A firm lockout will definitely help, if its not too rough.

I will add that you should also take a look at those new Carbonda models. I'm new to the scene myself, but they seem to pop up everywhere with great quality frames. The FM1001 should totally suit your needs.

[emu26]

The FM08 has been superseded by the FM10

http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=896

[Janchi]

Checked out the carbondas (FM1001 and FM1002) and they are nice. I think I will be good to go with the 135mm one. Its a shame that they are not available right now, as I don't want to finish my new bike at the and of this season. I am also 98% certain I want CC DBAir IL - so no trunnion mount option :/. But will stay open to them and wait for some real experience report.

I am a bit suspicious about FM10. As a successor to FM08 and I cant see clear benefits. Asy chainstay is in my option not worthy "update". All the branded bikes in this category are having symetrical chainstays nowdays (don't know why as it was pretty standard like my Rumblefish). Little bit more up to date geo. But there are some wired details like cable inlets - for me the solution on FM08 is prettier. Or the rear triangle - rear pivot - inner part on the chainstay and outer on the seatstay. FM08 chainstay "wrapped around" seatstay - this is the solution used by almost al the big name brands. The only one i found with similar solution is Rocky Mountain. The way the rear brake post mount is integrated looks on FM08 also way more "polished" than FM10.

Can't judge the these technical solutions as I am not an engineer, but they are a bit strange as an evolution. These are the things that hit my eyes.

For first time will not go the Alibaba Santa Cruz clone. But must say its tempting. 

I studied geos of these bikes a bit more. And for now the FM08 is the winner for me. Yes its not the lowest longest slackiest, but I think it will be good compromise between climbing and downhill capabilities. The only thing bothering me a bit is that geo drawings are with 564mm and my Marzocchi is even with 150mm - 550mm + 8mm headset so will be a 6mm lower than drawing. 

The rear travel I want is 140mm so shock will be 210 x 50.

[emu26]

I don't think the FM08 is available anymore.

[Janchi]

I don't think the FM08 is available anymore.

Is possible that TanTan stopped the production but LightCarbon replied that LCFS713 is available. Wrote to the DengFu question about availability.

[Janchi]

So i pulled the trigger on LightCarbon LCFS713. After I ordered they said that there are all 19 inch sold out. After few days they found one. Today i picked it up also with wheels. Everything nicely packed. Wheel looking great. Frame is looking to me as it was sanded from the paint. I think that was the time i was waiting to look for one. It is not bothering me much as i want to do mine pant job. But its not sanded 100% perfect.

The only other fault i found is the "lip" for upper bearing in the headtube there is some strange chipping. I don't think its an huge problem as it's not huge and to my eyes it's anyway not made of fibers, so it should not be structural.

What do you think? Should I try to account for some warranty?

Thanks.

[carbonazza]

...The only other fault i found is the "lip" for upper bearing in the headtube there is some strange chipping. I don't think its an huge problem as it's not huge and to my eyes it's anyway not made of fibers, so it should not be structural...

Contact the seller with the picture to warn them now.
And just check after a few months, if it stayed in the same state.
Most probably it will, but if not, dealing with the pain of warranty at that time.