SEKA Bikes? Out of contact?

[StiffWeenies]

Still waiting on the frame to be shipped, looks like the lockdown has caused quite a long delay. Currently looking into a separate stem and handlebar that would work well with the frame. I'll be sure to post an update when I receive the frame.

If you want to use another bar/stem, you'd need to ask for their adaptor

[jungian]

If you want to use another bar/stem, you'd need to ask for their adaptor

Thanks SW! I'll ask them for one. Do you have any suggestions for stems that will look good with the frame and spacers?

[Chrisf10]

Did you build up the frame yet? How is it?

[jungian]

Did you build up the frame yet? How is it?

Yep, received the frame last week and built it up waiting to put more miles on it before creating a separate post reviewing the bike. So far so good though. Built it up with the new Di2 R8170, Elite Drive 50s w/ Schwalbe one pro tubeless in frame size large the total weight(not including pedals, computer, or rear light was just under 7.1kilos or around 15.8 pounds.

My only complaint has been the lack of communication from Cycling 100, however having already built a few Chinese bikes I had more patience than most on the weightweenies forum. Ended up taking 6.5 months from order to delivery, party due to covid lockdown, and partly due to lack of Large frame availability. I would be a bit hesitant to order now with the current political unrest especially in shanghai where they're made.

The build process itself had only one issue which was mostly error on my part. When running the hydraulic hoses it helps to fasten the hose to the brake and tighten the brake down. I thought I was having a strange issue with my handlebars turning themselves however this weas resolved when I connected both ends of the hydraulic hose. I did learn if connecting and securing everything doesn't solve the issue then either the cables are cut too short or the line is twisted causing tension. The new wireless Di2 was incredibly easy to setup and SEKA provides plenty of parts to accommodate Di2 or cable run builds.

How does it ride you may be wondering? Well I'm wondering the same haha. With only 1 ride so far I'm waiting on better weather and my weekends have also been occupied by skiing. Having said that the bike "feels" much stiffer than my vbr177 or Sworks SL5 Disc. This could be due to a multitude of things like wheels, handlebar, tire pressure, or that its a new thing and I want it to be good. Time will tell and I'll follow up with another review after some more miles.

[dsveddy]

Just preordered a large standard frameset in blue from Cycling100, despite the clear risk that this will take forever. With COVID lockdowns ending I imagine lead times are going back to normal. Was quoted "10-12 weeks"...we'll see about that. Fingers crossed I guess. It's still early in the season, so if all goes well I hopefully will be able to have this bike in time for May. I'm in my 15th season of amateur racing so I definitely have the mechanical chops to build it up, but I'm poor graduate student so I really am seeking to cut costs.

My current bike, a Tarmac SL5, is nearly 10 years old; it's high time I got something new, and the proliferation of LTWOO disc groupsets has really brought the cost of the build down. I have been painstakingly speccing out possible builds. For a while I considered the Elves Falath but that frame would have been about 250gr more than the Seka, but in the end only ~$300 less. Similarly I could have gotten a Yoeleo R11 or R12 for slightly less, but the yoeleo bikes aren't as beautiful, are essentially the same price. The R11 isn't quite as aero, and I believe the R12 slightly heavier. I might end up regretting not getting an R12 instead--we'll see.

Geometry wise, I currently run a size 56 on my Tarmac with a 110mm stem, 80mm bar reach, and ~0.5cm of spacer--which has always felt a little short for me. I have abnormally long arms relative to my height and run a very-forward saddle, so in general I need a lot of reach, something that is at odds with the Seka's geometry, and with Chinese frames and bar-stems in general. The combined frame+bar reaches of the "size 56" equivalent Seka, R12 and the Falath are all about 1cm shorter than my Tarmac, therefore the only way to get the geometry I really want is to get a 130mm stem, and Seka is the only company besides Farsports offering of a 130mm stem with 380mm bars. Some might retort that this isn't an issue when you run a separate bar-stem, but I really believe in the aerodynamics of a combined bar-stem, making the availability of a 130mmx380mm handlebar a key selling point for me with the Seka.

Current build plan is:
-standard Seka frameset+bar+Token BB (1054gr frame, 370gr fork, 325gr bar, 165gr post, 105gr BB)
-LTWOO R9 Disc carbon (11-speed) groupset (1167gr brifters+derraileurs+calipers, 200gr cables+housing)
-Magene P325CS powermeter crank (730gr)
-YBN SLA-110 chain (249gr)
-SROAD one-piece CNC cassette (230gr)
-|||PRO brand rotors (308gr)
-ICAN Aero 35 disc wheels (1355gr)
-GP5000s tires (280gr x2)
-Specialized power S-works carbon saddle (160gr)
-No-name Supacaz imitation handlebar tape (50gr)

According to my calculations given quoted weights for everything is estimated at 7100 grams. We'll see about that! I'm guessing going from a M to a L will add ~200g+, and the accumulated error on quoted weights will add up to over ~300gr, so I would be very happy if it was anywhere close to 7.5kg dry.

MSRP for this build is right around $3700 including cost of shipping to the US (excluding saddle since that's taken from my old bike). A comparable bike like the soloist with ultegra is $4300--and that's without shipping, racing wheels or power meter--so add about $2000 to that to reach a similar spec.

Anyways, wish me the best of luck!

[Velovelo]

Any SEKA build updates guys

[s3si1u]

Any SEKA build updates guys

Have you checked out the Wright Weenies thread on Seka? There's of info and distribution updates on there, as well as many completed builds from forum members

[dsveddy]

I've been active on the weight weenies build thread! Completed my build a couple months ago, it's been great!

[s3si1u]

I've been active on the weight weenies build thread! Completed my build a couple months ago, it's been great!

Let us see! 

[Velovelo]

Is it possible to give a general ride summary / review here?
I saw complains online of seat post slipping?
Does the handlebars, Fork or Frame flex like some say the RDC version flexes?
What is the final weight and which frame version?

Also how much was the preorder amount paid since the website only states the "Payment Balance"?

Given all the online hype: Falath Evo or Standard SEKA Exceed which you'd go for after your SEKA experience?

[dsveddy]

Alright, I've added some action shots and I'll provide my review here.

You can find a spreadsheet of my build at this link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z20zeKtriG4WqEXxRvezuxrfo9ZRBZkz3rY3xrKfrCU/edit?usp=sharing

Re: version and weight, I have the standard exceed in midnight blue, size large, with 380mmX130mm barstem. When I first built it up, it weighed about 16.6lb (incl. pedals & cages). I have since gotten that down to 16.2lb by swapping out some parts and cutting down the seatpost. Check the spreadsheet for detailed weights.

Re: seatpost slipping, I have experienced problems with that myself, as well as creaking. I have gone into more detail on weight weenies, but basically the seat post as a lot of slop between the seat tube, and it makes it so the compressor has to do pretty much all stabilization. This is not an uncommon problem, and while most manufacturers put in a chunky compressor to solve this problem, Seka's is small and flimsy for weight saving. Furthermore, Seka's stock seatpost is VERY long, so at even normal post heights, you will hit the seat tube cutout changing the post angle, and this messes up the interface with the compressor. So you NEED to cut the post, both to avoid damaging your frame, and to ensure a proper interface. I have addressed this issue with lots of carbon paste, putting 3M protective film on the surface that doesn't touch the plug to take up that slack, and overtorqueing the screw a bit, and since dialing this in, I haven't experienced problems with slipping.

Re: Flex, my previous bike was a Tarmac SL5, bikes in general have gotten much stiffer since then. This bike feels stiffer yet more vertically compliant compared to my Tarmac. When I first got the bike, I sensed a lot of fork flex under braking. Since then I've tightened up the headset and haven't noticed it. Either I've gotten used to it or it was the headset. I do not experience fork chatter under braking like you do with some really flexy front ends.

Re: Price, preorder was $581USD, remaining was $1290USD. This is the final price billed to my card, which includes shipping/customs fees.

Re: Elves falath evo or Seka, I would choose Seka. Take this all with a grain of salt since the Seka--being a semi-aero bike--has a different design philosophy/goals to the Evo, and I've never even seen an Elves in real life. But, based on all the build videos I've been watching from the usual youtubers, I really do not like the Falath Evo. I don't think it fulfills the goal of being an aero bike very well. If you really look at the tubes, lot of the design doesn't make sense aerodynamically:

The leading edge of the downtube is a semi-square face, when you want a rounded one. Same goes for the seat tube gusset. All leading edges on the Seka are rounded.

There's huge gaps between the seat tube cutout and the tire, even when running a 32mm tire. The Seka also has gaps, but they're smaller, not to mention that Seka isn't intending to shroud the wheels as much as the Evo is.

The Evo's headtube--the most aerodynamically sensitive area on the bike, is the widest I've ever seen, which runs counter to how western brands like Cannondale are doing everything possible to make the headtube as narrow as possible to minimize the frontal cross section. Seka's is much narrower, and even has an hourglass profile to minimize it even more.

I don't think the way the Evo's integration of the headtube with the top tube improves aerodynamics. TT bikes do it because the base bar is always designed to run slammed with the stem flush to the top tube. I think the way the Evo executes it actually presents more frontal area compared to a conventional, lower top tube.

The Evo's super-narrow downtube does next to nothing to shield the water bottle. I'm of the opinion that every aero bike should be designed with round standard bottles in mind. The reality is that sane people not racing a TT will ride with round water bottles, and the water bottle will spoil all the airflow coming off that narrow down tube on the Evo. In contrast, the Seka's downtube gently flares out as it approaches the bottle to shield it a bit more. The shielding isn't perfect (as on most bikes), but at least it's considered on the Seka.

All in all, I would not be surprised if someone put the Seka and Evo in a windtunnel (with 2 water bottles on each bike), that it turns out the Evo is not actually faster than the Seka.

Lastly, I think the fact that Seka is willing to show off their carbon under clearcoat while Elves paints over EVERYTHING says that either Seka's paint and finishing is just a tad better, or that Elves may even be trying to hide imperfections in layup. Seka's paint isn't exactly phenomenal (soft, scratches easily, comes with subtle scratches/swirls in the clearcoat), but it's very special to see the carbon underneath.

Coulmain made the point that for average riders, "aero optimization" doesn't really matter. My counter to that is that a) all of these un-optimized features add up, and b) if it doesn't really matter, then don't bother with an aero bike, or at least not one that postures as a super-aero bike. You pay for "aero features" in weight, comfort, impact resistance, and added engineering/manufacturing complexity that trickles down to cost. I think Coulmain weighed in a 52cm at over 1200 grams. If that's a 52, what could a 56 be? 1300g?!! Meanwhile a 52cm Seka Exceed Std is about 950 grams I think. That means the Evo is ~20% heavier! I have a hard time believing the Evo's aero gains--if there are any, are enough to offset that much of a weight penalty.

[Velovelo]

Very insightful review and what a great build! Congratulations!
Thanks for sharing your experience, helpful for finalizing my choice.

[Sebastian]

How hard/easy was it to route shifting cables through the headset on this frame? How do you like the full internal routing on this frameset in general?

[dsveddy]

How hard/easy was it to route shifting cables through the headset on this frame? How do you like the full internal routing on this frameset in general?

The frame was easy. I actually have more issues with the handlebar.

The headset routing looks pretty much the same as the Tarmac SL7’s. A cable routing kit is essential though, I can vouch for the one Trace Velo uses. Once set up correctly, shifting has been surprisingly smooth. I had a hiccup where I routed the front brake hose on the medial end of the left side headset cable housing guide, and the shift cable on the leftmost/lateral side of it. This caused the brake hose and front shift cable to cross under high steering angles. I fixed it easily by swapping them around. Beyond that, you get a lot space to work with in the bottom bracket area. There’s a door below the bottom bracket, and the T47 BB threads themselves are very open, making it easy to maneuver inside if the BB is not installed. Other plus of the threaded system is you can take out the BB pretty easily if you need to redo cables. The bike also comes with a cable stop for the downtube if you don’t want to internally route your shift cables.

The handlebar, on the other hand, is tough. The tube sections are small, so the bend at the stem/bar junction is very tight and difficult to route. The exit hole is also pretty tight, it’s hard to get the brake hoses to make the turn if you have a routing tool attached. It’s doable but there’s a lot of frustration involved. In general I think the bar would benefit from having a wider/deeper junction and maybe some sweep, like how the Vision 4D bars have.

[dsveddy]

I just wanted to update this thread with some recent discussion from the Weight Weenies Seka thread.

Seka has announced they have stopped sending frames to Cycling100, even those destined to fulfill open orders on C100. At the same time, there were people on WW with open orders who claimed to have been ghosted by C100 following requests to cancel their orders. A few users have shared that C100 has eventually promised to return order payments since the announcement, but it seems there are others who are still in limbo

Seka, on the other hand, is offering a 30% discount to individuals with unfulfilled orders with C100, which is a bit less than the cost of the deposit. The big catch is that they are only accepting payment via bank transfer for these orders. It remains to be seen if their upcoming webstore will also only accept bank transfers, or will accept more conventional forms of payment.

I urge people considering to buy from Seka's upcoming webstore to approach buying a frame through them with cautious optimism. While yes, much of the blame for the sourcing issues people have faced is pegged on Cycling100, Seka's retail store is also unproven. Fundamentally, what went wrong with Cycling100 is that they promised unrealistic lead times.
Seka's production is clearly dynamic. Users who order the same color frame seem to get their orders all at once, suggesting that Seka produces their frames in batches of one color and/or version.  I think Seka themselves are better equipped for quoting lead times than a retailer is, but ultimately it depends on their ability to maintain a stable production line and have good production forecasting. If they don't, then I would expect people's experience with Seka's store to mirror that of Cycling100. I am not suggesting that this will be the case, but I want to urge people to not assume that everything will be perfect going forward.

Because of this, I urge everyone to always use payment methods with buyer protection when buying bike parts internationally, and know your payment method's buyer-protection policies well enough to use them. I say "internationally" because these issues are not restricted to Seka, or even the Chiner-space. I've had to dispute charges from a European retailer before. Whenever you buy goods from abroad, you basically can no longer count on legal protections, because even if they are there, trying to use them is almost always more expensive than taking the loss.

Some of you may find what I say regarding buyer protection obvious. Based on the discourse I saw on WeightWeenies, it is not obvious to everyone, so I hope to broadcast this message as broadly as possible.

Forms of useful buyer protection:

AliExpress--when you buy on AliEx, you get 90 days starting the day your item ships (I believe the moment a tracking number is created) to make a buyer protection claim for non-receipt of your items. There is indeed a store carrying Seka on AliEx, the 10 week lead time is dangerously close to the 90 day protection window. Users from Weight Weenies have reported waiting 6 months or more for frames ordered through this store, which far exceeds the protection window.

Credit card charge dispute--if you use a major credit card like American Express and Visa to make your purchase, you have up to 120 days after the charge to start a charge dispute for non-receipt of goods. You can start this process by calling or emailing your credit card's customer service. Some CC companies like AmEx will be more likely to side with customers than others in cases where you dispute for receiving goods not-as-described, so choose your CC wisely and read their buyer protection terms and conditions before making a purchase.

PayPal--Buyers using PayPal have until 180 days after purchase to file a dispute for non-receipt of goods or goods received not-as-described. I believe PayPal have the strongest buyer protection in these cases. Incidentally, Cycling100 was actually dropped by PayPal for having too many disputes over delayed delivery during the pandemic.

For all of these choices, they depend on you actually filing the dispute on time. If you use one of these payment methods and don't have your frame in hand by the time the dispute window closes, you need to start your dispute no matter what, or at the very least contact your payment service's customer service and explain your situation if you anticipate receiving your goods just after the deadline.

Forms of payment with NO buyer protection:
-Debit cards
-Bank transfer
-Wire/money order
-Crypto

If you use any of these, you are at the mercy of the seller. Again, do not count on any other country's legal system to help you recover your money.

I look forward to seeing Seka's store open soon. I myself hope to buy a direct-mount hanger for my bike from them. But as they open, I urge everyone to approach buying a Seka with a conservative attitude.

Update 6/16/23:
Looks like C100 is actually refunding everyone for non-deliveries. Many users on WW now reporting receiving their refunds.