VeloBuild Headset Play Issue Using Separate Stem/Handlebar: Resolved.

[patliean1]

I also posted this in the VB-177 thread. Figured a brand new topic/thread would better raise awareness.

I have finally found an easy yet permanent fix for the headset play issue when using the separate handlebar/stem combo. Please bare with me as I'll do my best to be clear and concise. You do not need an FSA ACR setup, nor disconnect any hydraulic or shift cables.

#1 - This is NOT a design flaw on VeloBuild's behalf. The issue lies in the particular C-Clip they supply, which sits in the middle between the upper headset bearing and the black metal bearing cap (dust cover).

#2 - VeloBuild's C-Clip uses two tabs in order to lock the headset cap into place. The supplied spacers also use these same little tabs/knobs in order to lock the stem in place as well. The problem with these tabs is they are just deep enough (when locked into place) to subsequently recess the metal headset cap (dust cover) too far into the headset bearing. This is why there's always headset play no matter how tight the compression top cap bolt is. Those little tabs are about 0.5-1.0mm tall which, when recessed into the dust cover, make all the difference.

#3 - The solution? Using a C-Clip that DOES NOT have those little tabs. Using a totally flat C-Clip means the headset cap/dust cover will still be level/flush, but it wont recess into each other by the 0.5-1.0mm mentioned above. This also enables you to use a C-shaped shim if need be, although you should not need to. Not having the recessed headset cap is basically a shim in of itself since the headset cap will sit 1mm higher.

#4 - I found all of this out while building my Yoeleo gravel bike. I had the same headset play issue. Turns out Yoeleo's headset bearings for the top and bottom are slightly two different thicknesses. The thicker (red bearing) one needs to be on top, and I had them reverse. During troubleshooting Yoeleo send me a spare flat C-Clip, but the fix was simply switching the bearings around.

The Takeaway - Confirm the headset bearings are indeed the same size (they should be) and thickness for top and bottom. Buy/Order flat C-Clip for the top headset bearing. I no longer even needed to use a spacer above the compression plug top cap. Everything is flush, and no headset play even after a 30 mile ride earlier today on terrible Chicago roads.

Photo 1 - VeloBuild's supplied C-Clip with the two tabs
Photo 2 - The replacement flat C-Clip
Photo 3 - What the flat C-Clip looks like installed
Photo 4 - My final setup with no spacer above the stem top cap

EDIT - From the Carbonda 1056 thread: "In general these washers are between the slotted ring and the dust cover.
When you compress the bearings, the dust cover sometimes rub the top of the frame.
Adding one or more washers add some space to have only the seal making a light contact with the frame."

[FHS]

Thanks for the the write up Pat.

Yeah, this issue plagued me with my TanTan X-21, which is a clone of the VB-099.

I had a couple of threads going on my workarounds, which included a couple of new headsets, FSA ACR among them. I feel like there are just a number of design flaws with these Chinese head tubes that take threadless headsets. For me, the biggest one is all the slop around stack height for the different headset bearing/lock ring combinations.

In the end, getting the stack height right with the appropriate number of microspacers was the trick. Yes, the microspacers need to be modified, but the modification is a 2 minute job with a fine tooth blade on a hacksaw and block of wood for an entire stack of spacers. I settled on the FSA ACR bearings and lock ring, with the stock head set cover and spacers, mostly because that combination felt the smoothest and looked the cleanest. But, honestly, with the right number of microspacers, any combination of components solved the head set play issue.

On a separate but related note, when I built up my Giant Propel frame, it came with a microspacer that fit their overdrive 2 steerer tube. My experience with my Chinese frame definitely helped a lot with setting up the Propel's head set, but it was a nice touch from Giant to include the spacer.

[FHS]

"#4 - I found all of this out while building my Yoeleo gravel bike. I had the same headset play issue. Turns out Yoeleo's headset bearings for the top and bottom are slightly two different thicknesses. The thicker (red bearing) one needs to be on top, and I had them reverse. During troubleshooting Yoeleo send me a spare flat C-Clip, but the fix was simply switching the bearings around."

Just a note specifically for #4...

Yeah, TanTan sent the same red and blue bearings, but I can't remember which one was thicker. I did notice the different thicknesses though, but just ran with one combination, I think thicker on the bottom and thinner up top, before switching them around.

In the end, it didn't matter. It was still pretty sloppy either way, which is why I tried different headsets with different bearing thicknesses. Just wish I would have known about microspacers from the get go. I finally took it in to my LBS. The tech there suggested the microspacers, thankfully.

[patliean1]

"#4 - I found all of this out while building my Yoeleo gravel bike. I had the same headset play issue. Turns out Yoeleo's headset bearings for the top and bottom are slightly two different thicknesses. The thicker (red bearing) one needs to be on top, and I had them reverse. During troubleshooting Yoeleo send me a spare flat C-Clip, but the fix was simply switching the bearings around."

Just a note specifically for #4...

Yeah, TanTan sent the same red and blue bearings, but I can't remember which one was thicker. I did notice the different thicknesses though, but just ran with one combination, I think thicker on the bottom and thinner up top, before switching them around.

In the end, it didn't matter. It was still pretty sloppy either way, which is why I tried different headsets with different bearing thicknesses. Just wish I would have known about microspacers from the get go. I finally took it in to my LBS. The tech there suggested the microspacers, thankfully.

I wonder if crescent shaped "C" shims are easily available to purchase. Regular shims are fine for externally routed cables, but obviously won't work with internal cables without disconnecting them first. Beings able to simply "slot" them in place would be a game changer.

[FHS]

That would be nice, but, honestly, they aren't difficult to modify at all. Like I said, I just took the blade I used to cut my steerer tube, taped a stack of microspacers together, set them on the edge of a block of wood, then hacked out the notch. Five minute job tops, including prep time. And, yeah definitely a game changer for me anyway.

[VeloBuild.Bikes]

I also posted this in the VB-177 thread. Figured a brand new topic/thread would better raise awareness.

Thank you Patliean1 for all the troubleshooting and your detailed assessment.

We have been working on resolving the headset play issue some customers with the separate bar/stem combo have experienced and are happy to announce that the issue has been resolved by increasing the thickness of the C shaped bearing press by 0.5mm.

All shipments since April have been sent with the new bearing press and we have also sent it to existing customers that have been affected and it has resolved their issues.

If you have the separate handlebar/stem and are experiencing this issue please contact us for a new C shaped bearing press by email at info@velobuild.com

New customer orders of the separate handlebar/stem will also include split spacers.

[timjen]

Hi Guys,

hope this is the right section here. I am very happy with my x21 except the sloppy front end.
To solve the problem I just bought a „The one“ stem/bar and a FSA ACR System.

Unfortunally the Stem doesn‘t fit on the knobbles of the acr top cap.

The C-Ring of the ACR System looks good, so i want to use this one - but how can I install „the one“ on this system?

[s3si1u]

#3 - The solution? Using a C-Clip that DOES NOT have those little tabs. Using a totally flat C-Clip means the headset cap/dust cover will still be level/flush, but it wont recess into each other by the 0.5-1.0mm mentioned above. This also enables you to use a C-shaped shim if need be, although you should not need to. Not having the recessed headset cap is basically a shim in of itself since the headset cap will sit 1mm higher.

Thanks for the detailed assesment! I have a 177 with the one piece bar/stem and have the same headset play issue. May I ask where you sourced the clip? Did you get it from Velobuild? I've emailed back and forth with Chris for some time now and he hasn't sent me one of their new designs. I'd be more than happy to look elsewhere and purchase my own if it's available somewhere!

[stu]

Thank you Patliean1 for all the troubleshooting and your detailed assessment.

We have been working on resolving the headset play issue some customers with the separate bar/stem combo have experienced and are happy to announce that the issue has been resolved by increasing the thickness of the C shaped bearing press by 0.5mm.

All shipments since April have been sent with the new bearing press and we have also sent it to existing customers that have been affected and it has resolved their issues.


Interesting.  I received a VB-R-177 ordered in May with the old-style C-ring (thinner, with the prongs) and have not been shipped a replacement ring.  I will email you.
The C-ring supplied has the headset play issue described by others here. The problem is two things:

1.  The prongs on the C-ring prevent compression of the system
2.  The half-round form of the C-ring allows play.  It should be a 270 degree sector minimum.

Also the headset supplied had only one 52mm bearing plus compression ring and a smaller bearing with compression ring and circular dustcap.
I have ordered an FSA ACR to compare.

[s3si1u]

Thanks for the detailed assesment! I have a 177 with the one piece bar/stem and have the same headset play issue. May I ask where you sourced the clip? Did you get it from Velobuild? I've emailed back and forth with Chris for some time now and he hasn't sent me one of their new designs. I'd be more than happy to look elsewhere and purchase my own if it's available somewhere!

Update: there was a bit of miscommunication/language barrier but it turns out Chris had already sent me the new half ring along with a warranty saddle, but USPS dropped the ball and returned to sender. Not long after touching base, I received the package as he had already resent it.
That being said, I haven’t needed to install the new half ring since I found a combo of compression plug/spacer/top cap that has removed any headset play and has worked well for the last few hundred miles. I don’t see the play coming back, but if it does I’ll go in and replace the half ring. This is the only issue I’ve had with my 177. I think a minor issue like this is to be expected with open molds and are solved with a little diy know-how.
I appreciate reading everyone’s experience with open molds and Velobuild, good or bad. Personally, I’m happy with Velobuild’s follow-up and service considering they’re on the other side of the planet and not a major manufacturer. They are certainly better and more helpful  than the maker of my gravel bike, which is a local US company and based quite literally 20 minutes away from me.

[Chewy4u]

I can further the debate for the need of a new style of compression ring or perhaps a 270° compression ring.  Went as far to file down the "tabs" on the original (new style) c-ring along with adding 4, 0.25mm micro spacers and still had substantial headset play. Currently awaiting new Deda 270° c-ring to verify if this will work.

[Chewy4u]

Issues with the vb-168... Went as far to file down the "tabs" on the original (new style) VB c-ring, using a 2" compression plug and adding 4, 0.25mm micro spacers, still had substantial headset play. Currently awaiting new Deda 270° c-ring to verify if this will work


Update:
The new 270° round Deda c-ring work. I tried both, the Deda 36° and 45° angle. Both work.

The original VB half-ring was ~1.12cm wide and had quite a gap between the head tube and headset assembly.

I reduced the Deda by 3.76mm (from the top!) and sanded til smooth.  Since the Deda were plastic I used 1, 0.25mm micro spacer as a protective layer. Now there are no gaps by the head tube  and the assembly is flush.

In conclusion, IMO the more diameter of the 270° round c-ring creates more surface for proper compression.

See attached... The VB original is center sans "tabs".

[fvega]

I had local machinist make me a couple of identical replacement spacers I specified how much thicker I want them. It was not expensive. k.dayconcepts@gmail.com, no I am not making any commision just providing an option.

[Sikter89]

Does anyone has a link where one can buy a compatible compression ring, preferably in Europe? I still have headset play which makes me very nervous while riding and don't seem to find a way how to resolve it (tried very long compression plug, steerer is cut adequately).
Also what I noticed when I tighten the top cap it slides bit to the back - does anyone have the same situation maybe? Could it be a hint what I'm doing wrong?

[zxcvbnmjm]

@Sikter89

have you read this thread? There may be some solutions there that werent mentioned here

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3781.msg38354.html#msg38354