Author Topic: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix  (Read 2303 times)

binaryagent

Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« on: December 05, 2022, 07:10:40 PM »
YW



binaryagent

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2022, 09:39:53 AM »
Guess I should have clarified which problem with the headset this will fix. It won't fix the corrosion problem. Also, if your top headset bearing is worn out and loose this won't fix it.

However, if your headtube is popping because the top bearing and bearing retainer are moving around and the bearing retainer is slipping past the bearing ridges this will be a permanent fix... not a preferred fix, but definitely a permanent fix.

The ACR design came from FSA and Vision Bicycle Components. They might be the same company, not sure. The motivation for the hidden cables, I'm guessing, comes from the need to reduce wind resistance in triathlon bikes. Somehow, someone thought it would look clean on a mountain bike so they used the design there. In my opinion the ACR design doesn't work with mountain bikes because the headset bearings and head tube have to withstand much more force from the fork steerer tube and the ACR design doesn't allow for that. In my case, my front wheel slid directly into a tree and all of my weight and momentum put a huge amount of force on the top headset bearing and I heard a distinct pop. I thought maybe I cracked the frame. After that I started getting regular popping in the headset. When I inspected the headset I could see why it was popping.

The bearings and the head tube and the bearing retainer in the ACR design are kind of like the concave and convex washers of a brake bolt. They are able to slide within each other and only the angle of contact between the surfaces keeps them centered. If the retaining force applied is not straight down the steerer tube the parts will not be able to maintain correct positioning. Since the ACR top bearing retainer only makes contact with about 60% of the bearing surface it is not able to apply consistent force all the way around the bearing and so it tends to slide toward the lack of support. And since the lack of bearing retainer surface is at the front of the head tube where the most force is applied, there is not enough of a metal ridge to keep the bearing and the bearing retainer in place. When the bearing retainer is turned 90 degrees the bearing is held down with more force in the front and there is a metal ridge there to keep the bearing retainer in place. So now there is no movement between the pieces and no popping. The weakness in the bearing retainer is moved so that side forces can disrupt the positioning but the side forces applied to the head tube are insignificant compared to the force from front and rear - no risk there.

I'm including pics of the top bearing retainer. You can see where it had been slipping past the bearing and causing the popping.

There are other solutions from FSA and Ritchie but the FSA solution is not available and the Ritchie solution is cost prohibitive when $50 shipping from the UK is added.

I bought the FSA ACR replacement bearing and it sits lower in the head tube so won't move as much but decided that it was not necessary once I figured out the source of the problem. You can buy the bearing alone from Amazon for $22. It came without the black zinc oxide coating which is partially why I wanted it. I have another solution for the rust issue though.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RW5FQB4?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 06:43:00 PM by binaryagent »

binaryagent

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2022, 11:12:13 AM »
Additional Resources:

FSA Replacement Bearing:
https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/acb-bearing-1

Enduro Bearings shows that these are replacement bearings for the MR-127 bearing (these are thinner than the FSA bearing above and more like the Carbonda bearing):
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/products/acb-6808-cc $18
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/products/acb-6808-cc-ss $32
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/products/acb-6808-cc-sxd $109

Unavailable FSA ACR Retro Fit:
https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/no-55r-1-5-558 $45

Ritchie Headset:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/ritchey-comp-cartridge-drop-in-1.5-upper-headset ~$74



The FSA PDF doc shows the ACR specs for the head tube, bearings, etc.

BrokenTibia took a nice picture (attached) to show the difference in the Carbonda and FSA bearing. You can see why the FSA bearing would sit deeper in the head tube and would be more stable. The bearing retainer above the bearing is what really needs more stability though.


Eneen

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2023, 06:24:56 AM »
Looks like Carbonda uses 7mm bearings, maybe acros could fit:
https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/is52/is52-bearing-kit-integrated-cable-routing

Acros has also this compression ring:
https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/compressionring--ips-for-integrated-cabel-routing?c=219
Description says it's for ZS56, but looks like it is same one in both cases:
https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/is52/is52-bearing-kit-integrated-cable-routing
https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/zs56-headset-upper-part---integrated-cable-routing

This cover is pretty sleek and has seals, but not sure it could fit:
https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/is52-headset-cover---integrated-cable-routing

I'll try to design and 3D print cap with diagonal holes for wires, so they fit nicely and tight but after getting my frames.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 02:21:15 AM by Eneen »

FullCarbonAlchemist

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2023, 01:23:31 PM »
I was able to find the FSA No.55R from BikeInn recently, FWIW.

carbonazza

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2023, 03:28:32 PM »
Looks like Carbonda uses 7mm bearings...

I was just looking today about stainless steel bearings.
Found these that were 7mm too.
Hopefully to have them resist a bit longer to rust, the top one.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvdnnrJ

Eneen

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2023, 02:08:51 AM »
I've just received info from Acros, that this cable routing compression ring is same one for IS52 and ZS56:
https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/compressionring--ips-for-integrated-cabel-routing

What's diameter of headset cover from Carbonda?

EDIT: just received additional info from Acros. Sent them FM909 headtube drawing and they said their parts will fit. Their cap is sealed and rubber grommets are available as separate part for 5E so I guess I won't bother with 3D printing that involves prototyping. However Acros uses 42x52x7mm upper bearing that are rare (marked as AC4252 or ACB4252H7) and not cheap, but are stainless so no rust problem at all. Maybe I need to look for Orbea of Focus bearings, they use Acros headsets.

FYI here's list of parts from Acros.
Top cap: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/is52-headset-cover---integrated-cable-routing
Matching spacers: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/spacer-set,-fiber,-od34
Whole kit: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/is52/is52-bearing-kit-integrated-cable-routing
Upper kit: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/is52-upper-part-for-integrated-cable-routing-icr
Compression ring only: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/compressionring--ips-for-integrated-cabel-routing
« Last Edit: January 17, 2023, 07:53:40 AM by Eneen »

Eneen

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2023, 06:58:50 AM »
As I will have two frames to put headsets to so I decided to design cap/spacer prototype. Here it is:

Version with holes will split, so one won't need to cut cables while replacing upper bearing. As both, spacer and cap from Acros are plastic, I think it is more than enough when I print it with carbon infused filament.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 10:00:36 AM by Eneen »

ftajiri

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2023, 06:36:21 AM »
a lot of pain for a gorgeus look.. cabling going through the bearing is a nightmare

binaryagent

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2023, 06:57:21 AM »
FSA 55R 1.5"/558 in stock. Total with shipping $56.97.

https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/no-55r-1-5-558

carbonazza

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2023, 07:16:15 AM »
a lot of pain for a gorgeus look.. cabling going through the bearing is a nightmare

What nightmare ?!?
Removing the bar tape if any, opening the hydraulic circuit, maybe put back a new olive, and rebleed if unlucky, come on  ;D
Putting a stainless steel bearing on top could certainly help delay the pain.

binaryagent

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2023, 09:24:27 AM »
FSA 55R 1.5"/558 in stock. Total with shipping $56.97.

https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/no-55r-1-5-558

I received a promotional email...
"Take an easy 25% off with Promo Code “FSASPRINGCLASSIC” at checkout!"  April 2 - 23.

ElRey

Re: Carbonda ACR Headset Fix
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2023, 03:19:45 AM »
Hi all

Just wanted to say @binaryagent thanks a lot for this post. I’ve just built up a Carbonda 1306a (see post in that topic) and based on your post I chucked the headset upper that came with the frame and put in the Ritchey 1,1/2 to 1,1/8. (Easily sourced here in the UK.) Fits nice and flush. For those interested in this kind of thing it weighed 76g for the 1,1/2 bearing, the adaptor ring to 1,1/8 and the dustcap. The bearing on its own is about 30g from memory


Additional Resources:

FSA Replacement Bearing:
https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/acb-bearing-1

Enduro Bearings shows that these are replacement bearings for the MR-127 bearing (these are thinner than the FSA bearing above and more like the Carbonda bearing):
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/products/acb-6808-cc $18
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/products/acb-6808-cc-ss $32
https://cycling.endurobearings.com/products/acb-6808-cc-sxd $109

Unavailable FSA ACR Retro Fit:
https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/no-55r-1-5-558 $45

Ritchie Headset:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/ritchey-comp-cartridge-drop-in-1.5-upper-headset ~$74



The FSA PDF doc shows the ACR specs for the head tube, bearings, etc.

BrokenTibia took a nice picture (attached) to show the difference in the Carbonda and FSA bearing. You can see why the FSA bearing would sit deeper in the head tube and would be more stable. The bearing retainer above the bearing is what really needs more stability though.