LTWOO RX hydro sets

[kbernstein]

Both 11s and 12s available in carbon+alloy blades?
Why are the calipers branded ZRace? Are they the same with another logo and different pads? They look pretty good but they seem to have a philips screw for the pads. Which is still an improvement over Shimano's flatheads. It's a minor detail but it pisses me off that those still exist.

I know the shifters have the same pull ratio as shimano, does that mean you could use GRX mechs even for 12s? Has anyone tried pushing the LTWOO rear mech capacity? Rated for 32T is pretty awful especially for gravel.
Edit: I double checked and they are rated for 36T

[00Garza]

Both 11s and 12s available in carbon+alloy blades?
Why are the calipers branded ZRace? Are they the same with another logo and different pads? They look pretty good but they seem to have a philips screw for the pads. Which is still an improvement over Shimano's flatheads. It's a minor detail but it pisses me off that those still exist.

I know the shifters have the same pull ratio as shimano, does that mean you could use GRX mechs even for 12s? Has anyone tried pushing the LTWOO rear mech capacity? Rated for 32T is pretty awful especially for gravel.
Edit: I double checked and they are rated for 36T

The listing I see from Ltwoo official store explains the reason for using the Zrace calipers. Basically more compatibility and weight savings.

"Notice
In order to avoid SHIMANO's patent, LTWOO's Hydraulic Disc Brake Caliper uses a 70mm spacing mounting seat, and then installs it through an adapter, so that not only the Caliper is heavy, but the adapter is also very heavy, and the most important thing is that for some frames It is still not compatible, so we replaced the Flat Mount Caliper of ZRACE XG, so that the whole set can reduce weight 120g! and can be compatible with all flat mount frames and Forks.

And it can be installed on the frame of Post Mount and IS Mount through ZRACE's Flat to Post / IS Adapter."

No idea if 12s is compatible. Ltwoo's gravel rear mech is rated for up to 50t I believe.

[dsveddy]

2x11 R9:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199439314.html

1x11 GR9:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199325832.html

2x12 RX:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199358686.html

They're finally selling the Ltwoo shifters w/ ZRace hydraulic calipers without the derailleurs. Prices are still a bit high since the full groupset was selling for about $200 alloy and $260 carbon at the last Anniversary sale. Hopefully for the next AliEx sale they should sell for much less. 12 speed still seems to be selling for quite more.

As an R9-carbon earlyish adopter, I believe buying a set of these + an ultegra r8000 F/R derailleur set is THE move. I paid ~425USD for my R9 set, plus $45 for the ZRace caliers, plus ~$100 for ultegra derailleurs. I would have immediately jumped at this bundle deal instead if it had been available 2 months ago.

[BalticSea]

As an R9-carbon earlyish adopter, I believe buying a set of these + an ultegra r8000 F/R derailleur set is THE move. I paid ~425USD for my R9 set, plus $45 for the ZRace caliers, plus ~$100 for ultegra derailleurs. I would have immediately jumped at this bundle deal instead if it had been available 2 months ago.

Do their rim brake shifters still have plastic arms + internals as seen in Trace Velo video? How is the shifting? Debating between Sensah Team Pro and Ltwoo R9 shifters

[dsveddy]

Do their rim brake shifters still have plastic arms + internals as seen in Trace Velo video? How is the shifting? Debating between Sensah Team Pro and Ltwoo R9 shifters

Yes, the shift lever arms on the R9 are plastic. To boot, they are riveted in, making them irreplaceable. In terms of weight, this doesn't actually change anything, and I actually think the shift smoothness/crispness is decent, despite me running full-internal routing on the shift cables.

I'm not sure what you mean with the internals being plastic--AFAIK all the mechanical shifting bits are stamped steel, and the brake hydraulic housing (edit: I meant hydraulic piston assembly) is machined metal. Really, you get what you pay for, and with the LTWOO stuff you definitely are trading quality in for weight.

I think it's important to do the cost analysis--put all the parts, weights, and their costs in a spreadsheet, and compare. At the time I bought my stuff, ultegra groupsets were scarce, and I couldn't find them as a set without the cranks, which was important to me since I needed a crank-based power meter. When I ran the math, the R9 groupset was going to be less than half the price of going to Ultegra R8000 hydraulic for comparable weight. This math can change even more dramatically if you compare bundle deals, You can get a full Ultegra build kit for ~$1000USD, which is about exactly what I spent on my R9 groupset + power meter crank + ybn chain + sroad cassette + onirii rotors + bottom bracket.

In the short months since, it seems market pressures have eased dramatically and you can now easily find parted-out ultegra groupsets on AE for pretty cheap. For example, you can easily find R8020 brifters+calipers for $500 and a derailleur set for $120USD. At that point, the LTWOO R9 Carbon+ZRACE brifter set is only saving you ~$200, and I really do believe that Ultegra is bringing $200 worth of added value in terms of quality.

So in summary, I really think the LTWOO R9 set should be reserved for aggressively minimizing costs, and it will do that job well. If you can afford the extra $200 though, I would spring for the Ultegra set

[jonathanf2]

I know the shifters have the same pull ratio as shimano, does that mean you could use GRX mechs even for 12s?

I did an experiment running a 12 speed chain with a stock 105 RD. One issue you might encounter is that the jockey wheels might need to be swapped out in order to accommodate the slightly thinner 12 speed chain. You could swap them out for 12 speed compatible jockey wheels instead. Though I did the same experiment with a GRX 812 RD and the jockey wheels cleared a 12 speed chain just fine, so it could be dependent on RD and even the chain you use.

[BalticSea]

Yes, the shift lever arms on the R9 are plastic. To boot, they are riveted in, making them irreplaceable. In terms of weight, this doesn't actually change anything, and I actually think the shift smoothness/crispness is decent, despite me running full-internal routing on the shift cables.

I'm not sure what you mean with the internals being plastic--AFAIK all the mechanical shifting bits are stamped steel, and the brake hydraulic housing is machined metal. Really, you get what you pay for, and with the LTWOO stuff you definitely are trading quality in for weight.

I think it's important to do the cost analysis--put all the parts, weights, and their costs in a spreadsheet, and compare. At the time I bought my stuff, ultegra groupsets were scarce, and I couldn't find them as a set without the cranks, which was important to me since I needed a crank-based power meter. When I ran the math, the R9 groupset was going to be less than half the price of going to Ultegra R8000 hydraulic for comparable weight. This math can change even more dramatically if you compare bundle deals, You can get a full Ultegra build kit for ~$1000USD, which is about exactly what I spent on my R9 groupset + power meter crank + ybn chain + sroad cassette + onirii rotors + bottom bracket.

In the short months since, it seems market pressures have eased dramatically and you can now easily find parted-out ultegra groupsets on AE for pretty cheap. For example, you can easily find R8020 brifters+calipers for $500 and a derailleur set for $120USD. At that point, the LTWOO R9 Carbon+ZRACE brifter set is only saving you ~$200, and I really do believe that Ultegra is bringing $200 worth of added value in terms of quality.

So in summary, I really think the LTWOO R9 set should be reserved for aggressively minimizing costs, and it will do that job well. If you can afford the extra $200 though, I would spring for the Ultegra set

Ah, sorry for the confusion, IIRC right in Trace Velo video it was noted that one of piwces under the levers were made out of plastic and he was concerned that it may break during shifting under load.

I do agree with your point regarding value. To be fair, the only groupset parts that I am considering getting from China are cranks (not a fan of Shimano cranks, Sram cranks are too confusing eith their different standards, Campagnolo are straight rubbish, other cranks like FSA are confusing too) and shifters

[carbonazza]

...Campagnolo are straight rubbish...

I have one and I wouldn't say it is rubbish. What did you experience that badly ?

[Tijoe]

...(not a fan of Shimano cranks, Sram cranks are too confusing eith their different standards, Campagnolo are straight rubbish, other cranks like FSA are confusing too) and shifters...

How can a crank set be "confusing"   All they are is a LH, RH crank arm, an axle and a bottom bracket.  Yes there are 5-6 current BB widths, and sizes, but that is specified by the frame manufacturer and what type BB and width they require, when you purchase the crank set that fit your frame.

(I have become a fan of Race Face in the past 2 years because they have many flexible configurations and combinations of their cranks, I can purchase about any combination of their cranks to fit whatever bike I am building.)

[dsveddy]

Ah, sorry for the confusion, IIRC right in Trace Velo video it was noted that one of piwces under the levers were made out of plastic and he was concerned that it may break during shifting under load.

The fact that the levers are completely plastic and riveted in is worrisome for me. Francis Cade on youtube broke his left side shift lever (the carbon variety, no less!) on his first upshift. So they are indeed pretty fragile compared to western-brands' levers. But not so fragile that they are unusable, they just have a lower upper threshold on load; you have to make sure you have good cable routing and baby them on loaded shifts.

Like I said, you get what you pay for. LTWOO is not doing anything magical or nice like taking a smaller margin compared to Shimano. You are very much trading quality for price while preserving low-weight.

[jonathanf2]

I'm currently traveling right now, but when I return I plan to install my R9 alloy hydraulic shifters with my 105/Ultegra RD/FD. On initial inspection, both the brake and shift levers seem to be made of alloy. I think this will be the version to get if durability is a concern.

[elmtree]

I just got my alloy r9. Shift lever is definitely plastic, but looked metal on initial glance. One thing to watch out for when shifting before putting tension on the cable is the little cable ends getting bent the wrong way in the housing. Mine came a bit curved the wrong way and wouldn't shift. Can't wait to mount it

[BalticSea]

I have one and I wouldn't say it is rubbish. What did you experience that badly ?

I just don't understand why would they use a two piece spindle instead of one piece. They just made it more complicated, more expensive to manufacture for no good reason.

[carbonazza]

I just don't understand why would they use a two piece spindle instead of one piece. They just made it more complicated, more expensive to manufacture for no good reason.

Bearings are pressed on the spindle.
A setup that ensures a proper alignment compared to BB cups that sit in general in poorly machined and/or not aligned frames.
The load is then spread more evenly on the two bearings.
Making them live longer.

In the industry, this is an assembly when more precision is required, and to handle better both radial and axial load.

A crankset is always in two pieces anyway.
On others cranksets, on the junction between the crank arm and the spindle gets an orthogonal and heavy load, while here the arms and half spindles are one piece.
Which in theory ends stiffer, if we can ever feel it with our tiny hundreds watts capable legs 

[00Garza]

Finally got the 1x11 GR9 installed, but I think I have a faulty shifter. Can’t get the indexing right and it seems to miss shifts.