Author Topic: Compatibility of this frame swap  (Read 475 times)

stanigator

Compatibility of this frame swap
« on: June 04, 2023, 04:07:57 AM »
Here’s the story. Earlier this year, I found out that my gravel bike frame has been totaled (crack near crankset). I made the mistake of buying the bike originally and upgrading the braking system. Nevertheless, due to the age of the gravel bike frame, it was deemed not safe to ride during a trip to a bike mechanic, and I ended up getting a comparable replacement gravel bike.
That being said, I still have a groupset and the braking system are essentially brand new. I would like to avoid wasting these two systems (i.e. complete a frame swap). Here are the links to what I had originally:
Frame (not sure if it even helps): https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?page_id=60174
Groupset: Shimano Deore LX (https://loveforbikes.com/what-happened-to-deore-lx-and-how-good-was-that/)
Brakes: Avid BB7
I have tentatively acquired this frame (VB-R-168): http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3147.0.html
While it looked good on the surface, I grew concerned about the possibility of having to buy everything brand new to accommodate this frame.
I’m planning to get this to help with the internal routing: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005009233823.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.d062f056bPcr4v&algo_pvid=cac47226-6dc6-4b8e-a021-1fbee0a59c09&aem_p4p_detail=202306020900593096233992127880005253462&algo_exp_id=cac47226-6dc6-4b8e-a021-1fbee0a59c09-0&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21CAD%2116.34%2110.45%21%21%21%21%21%40211bf14716857216593003070d082f%2112000031330886277%21sea%21US%21174257599&curPageLogUid=2lC2YyEbssdl&p4p_pvid=202306020900593096233992127880005253462_1&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite4itemAdapt
I plan to get a compatible bottom bracket and wheel set (something like these: https://www.theproscloset.com/products/giant-slr-1-carbon-wheelset-1)
Here are my questions:
1)   Given the details of my groupset and braking system, is it even possible to make them work with adapters?
2)   I’m aware that this frame doesn’t have the necessary parts for mudguards. Can an add-on be installed to accommodate mudguards? I would like to avoid getting crap on myself while riding.
3)   Is it even possible to install panier racks on this (not that people typically do this)?
Responses to those questions would determine whether it’s way too much trouble for me to go through with making this frame work. Thanks in advance!



s3si1u

Re: Compatibility of this frame swap
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2023, 01:13:27 PM »
Voting for way too much trouble. It almost sounds like you're trying to make an adventure/touring rig out of an aero race road frame.
Furthermore, Avid BB7s aren't compatible with the flat mount brake attachments on road bikes, and if you could make it work with adapters the braking performance would be atrocious.  Also, that looks like an older MTB groupset and I would wager compatibility would be a major headache at best. You would also need to acquire some STI drop bar levers and fiddle with compatibility there as well.

TLDR: It's way too much trouble. if you bought the 168, you'll need new parts for it. If you haven't bought it, I would look for something much, much less racey.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 05:26:06 PM by s3si1u »
Instagram: @aerosloth

coffeebreak

Re: Compatibility of this frame swap
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2023, 01:36:58 PM »
This is bad idea.

Though I must say, using post mount brakes with adapters on flat mount frame has no effect on braking performance. I am doing exact same thing (Deore MT510 with adapters on Salsa Journeyer) and it works without any handicap.

dsveddy

Re: Compatibility of this frame swap
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2023, 03:25:34 PM »
re: mudguards and pannier racks--no, there is no way to install bosses on the frame. Strap-on mudguards exist, but as you may know these are less-optimal than standard ones.

For the pannier rack, some companies like Tailfin and Old Man Mountain have developed axle-mounted racks, with a strap-on second point of contact. I have zero experience with them but I've run into some Tailfin users on forums who love them. They sure are expensive though.

As far as compatibility goes, I have a few concerns:

You said you have deore lx--what kind of shifters do you have? Stock flat bar shifters? Or shimano shifters like in the photo of the bike? Either way, the shift cable housing is not going to exit under the bar tape (if you have a drop bar), so you will probably have to get creative with how the shift cables enter the headset/spacer assembly. If you've ordered the separate bar+stem option, I think you should be able to route the cables pretty easy. My other concern is that shimano groupsets from the 00s were designed with low-ish spring tension for light shifting because cable housings were not routed under bar tape or other internal frame routing. You might have issues with getting good shifting given the increased friction caused by routing housing through the headset, but there's no way to know for sure unless you try.

What kind of crank do you have, and what bottom bracket standard does it use? If it's a 2 piece crank like the deore lx in the groupset picture you'll be fine. If it's square taper or some other old standard, you won't find a compatible press-fit bottom bracket unless it's something exotic/expensive.

Then there's the issue of the chainline. Rear wheel spacing is now 135mm (edit, I was wrong, 142mm wide actually!) wide instead of 130mm (edit: wrong again, road-disc QR is 135mm), which means your cassette will be 2.5mm (edit: now 3.5mm if going from 135 to 142) further outboard than it was designed for. Theoretically, this will make your shifting "less optimal". Shimano hasn't actually changed their chainlines in response with their modern groupsets, and people don't really complain about this problem much, so I wouldn't be so pessimistic. BUT, if you are running a triple like I expect, this new chainline does might mean your inner chainring might be about as inboard as your large cassette cog. This substantially increase cross chaining the system will experience, which in turn increases the risk of chain suck, where cross chain + bumps or hard pedaling causes the chain to catches the next crankset ring, and it tries to jump up, but then gets stuck between the derailleur and chainring. This used to happen on my 2007 scott scale with 3x9 deore LX+XT mix all the time. This is probably the #1 reason why I wouldn't go this route.

The brakes are fine with adapters IMO.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2023, 09:12:54 AM by dsveddy »

s3si1u

Re: Compatibility of this frame swap
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2023, 05:28:43 PM »
This is bad idea.

Though I must say, using post mount brakes with adapters on flat mount frame has no effect on braking performance. I am doing exact same thing (Deore MT510 with adapters on Salsa Journeyer) and it works without any handicap.

For the record, I'm not referring to performance purely based on the post mount > flat mount fitment, but more that this will be a fully internally routed frame with cable calipers and performance will be nowhere near what it was on the old frame. Also, it'll look ugly.  :P

dsveddy

Re: Compatibility of this frame swap
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2023, 09:23:09 AM »
For the record, I'm not referring to performance purely based on the post mount > flat mount fitment, but more that this will be a fully internally routed frame with cable calipers and performance will be nowhere near what it was on the old frame. Also, it'll look ugly.  :P

I tend to agree. Even if I can devise a scenario where everything "theoretically" works out, there is a lot of risk something turns out not quite right.

There are tons of compatible frames out there languishing in the basements of people and city bike co-ops. Those parts are probably better suited to a frame of-the-period.

And if you already have the velobuild frame, I can enthusiastically recommend LTWOO's R9 11-speed hydraulic groupset as a cheap option to finish the shift kit. ZRACE, Onirii, and Zeroing make great cranks. And SROAD makes unbelievably lightweight cassettes.

stanigator

Re: Compatibility of this frame swap
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2023, 02:06:30 PM »
Thank you everyone for the feedback. My thoughts exactly.