How do yall feel about the value of open mold road bikes vs mainstream brands?

[Takiyaki]

Looking around it seems like some mainstream brands have got pretty aggressive with pricing, almost to the point that they're comparable with open mold builds. I feel like a mid grade open mold build (i.e. not the dirt cheapest parts, but not top tier brands either) is about $2000-2500. Seems like there are a few carbon 105 disc bikes from brands like Giant for that much

Obviously the mainstream stuff isn't as custom.... for example I would pay a little bit extra for 38cm bars and lighter wheels..... but then you do get a higher level of customer service and warranty over the whole bike

Has the shift in prices swayed anyone at all?

[BalticSea]

You can build open mold frame with carbon wheels and Force AXS for around 2500-2700€. Haven't seen anything remotely close in value in EU. If you go with cheaper groupset (i.e. Ltwoo or Sensah hydraulic and chinese cranks) then you can stay under 2000€ mark.

[bremerradkurier]

Open mold rim brake frame plus Ltwoo/Sensah shifters killer app would be dedicated direct drive training bikes for Zwift or similar programs-carbon solves most of the corrosion problems, no issues with tire clearance, little to no safety concerns from frame breakage, no brakes needed, and any random old, not even true front wheel could prop up the front.

[jonathanf2]

I don't see myself buying a mainstream brand frameset, because I'm not a bleed hard cyclist. I don't care for brand legacy, I don't watch or participate in cycling as a sport and I'm neither a crit bro/gravel hipster. I build my bikes to meet my performance needs and price point. All I care about is becoming stronger and going from point A to point B faster than the last time. Bikes are just exercise and transportation for me.

[wwnero]

I don't see myself buying a mainstream brand frameset, because I'm not a bleed hard cyclist. I don't care for brand legacy, I don't watch or participate in cycling as a sport and I'm neither a crit bro/gravel hipster. I build my bikes to meet my performance needs and price point. All I care about is becoming stronger and going from point A to point B faster than the last time. Bikes are just exercise and transportation for me.

Wouldn’t you be better off by buying a $500 décathlon bike then?

[wwnero]

I think it all depends on the “look” you are going for and how much you want to plan to spend on all things that aren’t the frame. It would depend on the total build cost. If you’re looking for a “budget” build around the 2-3k mark then open mold would probably be the way to go and get a nice bike. If you’re planning to spend 5k+ on a bike, I would rather get a specialized/cervelo frameset and build it up. Another scenario to look at is if you’re someone that sells your bike after a couple years then you could resell a bike with shimano/specialized parts for way more then open mold / Ltwoo. Yes you may spend a bit more on the western brand after reselling both but probably not by that much.

[Takiyaki]

I think it all depends on the “look” you are going for and how much you want to plan to spend on all things that aren’t the frame. It would depend on the total build cost. If you’re looking for a “budget” build around the 2-3k mark then open mold would probably be the way to go and get a nice bike. If you’re planning to spend 5k+ on a bike, I would rather get a specialized/cervelo frameset and build it up. Another scenario to look at is if you’re someone that sells your bike after a couple years then you could resell a bike with shimano/specialized parts for way more then open mold / Ltwoo. Yes you may spend a bit more on the western brand after reselling both but probably not by that much.

The resale is kind of what prompted me thinking about this. I want to sell my current build to start my next one. It has some really nice components (some DA9000 stuff, Quarq PM), but I feel like I'm gonna have to basically price it as the sum of the components with the frameset for free to get it to move. A name brand bike of the same spec would cost more upfront but def have higher resale. So it kind of feels like a false economy unless you plan to buy and hold.

[patliean1]

Here is my analysis...

Point #1 - Of all the frames I've ridden and tested, only 4 have performed flawlessly and free of any quirks. From the build process to long term on the road: Yoeleo R12, Winspace T1500, and two Specialized Allez Sprints. While I don't believe having a UCI sticker is the absolute marker for quality, it's also not a coincidence these 4 frames have them. Build quality, details and functionality matters at this price point.

Point #2 - Neither a UCI sticker nor offering a unique frame design is an indicator of a frame's performance. Yishun R086D and VeloBuild VB-177 are great frames despite more or less being open mold designs. What I've learned with cheap frames is if the specs/design of a frameset looks too good to be true...it probably is. TanTan x38 (Scott Foil clone) and VB-168 (SL7 clone) were sluggish for me personally.

Point #3 - Buying experience. Having the only two flagship Specialized shop outside of California 20 minutes from my home, you can tangibly see why they are so popular. The shopping experience is like going to a premium car dealership. Might as well be for a $5500 SL8 frame. Trek's flagship shops are horrible. Never buying from them again. With Specialized you're not just buying a bike. You buying into the local community, you have a home base for local rides/coffee, and you're dealing with managers/sales reps/mechanics who are also cyclists themselves. I cannot overstate how important this is for the 95% of cyclists in the real world who don't spend time on YouTube/forums geeking out over Chinese brands like myself.

Point #4 - My online presence is such that I'd rather not be a walking billboard for expensive brands. I'm trying to be aspirational to the fitness but budget minded shopper. Although I really want to buy a Giant Propel or S-Works SL8 next season to see if the hype is real. I cant keep testing cheap frame forever.

Obviously I'm probably not the average cyclist. Swapping new bikes/frames constantly is painful. However, I've grown tired of regularly dealing with the quirks and customer service annoyances of the cheaper/open mold frames. No matter how many "Chinese" bikes I've tested, I always go back to my Winspace T1500.

Which brings me to Point #5 - The only thing holding me back from buying the Propel/SL8 today is that we starting to see more Chinese competitors to Winspace/Yoeleo in the $1500-$2000 range coming to the marketplace for the Western world. To me this is where the best value to performance ratio can be found. UCI-Approved, limited licensed frame design, fantastic paint details, competitive frame weight, and quality supplied hardware. I'm currently in talks to acquire a frame from one of these new brands 

[Dark17]

If I only have the money then I would just buy a Time bike and just ride with it until I see a new frame that I really like. But, I don't have the money so I would just get some quality Chiner frames and wheelset. I am really thankful to this forum as it opened up my eyes regarding "botique" brands that are just rebranded Chinese open mold frames. If not for this forum I would just buy another Storck frame which is just a rebranded Pardus. Pretty sure that they get their frames from a manufacturer in China and I would really like to know what their frame is

[neobiker]

I feel there is still a big gap in pricing between mainstream and open mold.

I can build a bike with 105 mechanical with a 1.3kg wheelset for less than 2000 USD. Good luck finding that with mainstream brands.

What I really appreciate as well is the customization: you can just chose your favorite color and paint, add a logo for frame and wheels, which you would never get otherwise, unless you pay a hefty price for mainstream.

[jonathanf2]

Wouldn’t you be better off by buying a $500 décathlon bike then?

That $500 bike is a $150-200 bike marked up. I just want a minimalist bike equipped for what I ride, which is climb and descend several times a week. I don't really nitpick the details. I crash it, who cares. I'll salvage the components and build something else.

[bremerradkurier]

At least in the US, there's always the option of getting a part time bike shop job for "bro" deals-40% off brand name retail pricing used to be pretty typical, and sometimes there are ridiculous closeout details, like back in '99 when Trek was blowing out Lemond 753 steel framesets for $135 to shop employees.

[Sakizashi]

I will soon be doing 90% of my miles on 2 custom Ti bikes. Not because I love Ti but because the geometries I wanted were not available at the time either designed or commissioned them and custom carbon seemed prohibitively expensive at the time.

The big western brands like Specialized and Trek are a step ahead in terms of the combination of high end construction methods and open molds dont seem to do any aero development. However a geometry that helps me get into the position I want is going to be more important than the aero gains from the frame assuming reasonable good construction. Therefore I am willing to cast a wide net.

Right now, the Trek Domane RSL is the off the shelf bike that is closest to the geometry I would want. A bike that had that kind of lower trail geometry with a long and low position + clearance for a 34mm-35mm tires would instantly be on my shopping list regardless of the name on the side (or not) if it was of reasonable quality. UCI approved would be nice too.

I should add that since the Domane RSL in my size (52) is sold out if my Ti Road bike disappeared today, the Elilee Blize with a -20 deg drop stem and some 3d printing magic would most likely be tbe bike i would build. Though an SL8 with their -12, 110mm stem would get me close, the look of that bike with the tarmac stem and the "speedsniffer" is horrendous.

[Froglover825]

I honestly think the best option is to go with a mainstream second hand frameset and then build it up with your own "chinese" components.

Anyone that is going for whole bike builds is a super fred at this point since I would have to immediately replace the bars/stems (44cm lmao) and cranks (175mm lmao).
I also have a lot of wheels already so the wheels/tyres that come with it would go sitting in the corner.
If it comes with a powermeter i'd have to sell it since i already have powermeter.
The saddle is also useless since it won't be my preferred saddle.

At that point i bought a whole bike and only using the frame and the groupset.

[Sebastian]

The UCI accreditation doesn’t really make a difference in terms of the safety standard or the inherent quality that the manufacturers need to adhere to. It’s more about whether the frame meets all the design rules that the UCI has if you want to race UCI sanctioned events. The reason that small manufacturers don’t do it is because it obviously costs money for not much in return. You can find the protocol here: https://archive.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/approval-protocol-eng.pdf?sfvrsn=c07e81c6_20

If you want to sell bike parts in the EU and most other parts of the world, these components need to meet the requirements of the ISO4210 test protocol. These are impact and fatigue tests that manufacturers often show in videos. But even that doesn’t say much. In the end, a consistent QC and a reliable warranty and customer service make all the difference IMO.