Two new Winspace frames coming (soon?)

[stb]

Edit: Updated information as this is now on their website.


Hi there!

I am new around here, so let's get started 

This morning I noticed that Winspace updated their site with some pictures of two new frames that are coming (soon?).

The URL is not accessible anymore but I managed to snatch all the pictures Judging by the name of the image files, "Player #1" seems to be their Agile model that I remember seeing somewhere [1] else before (looking closer, it is written in the chainstay too ). No idea about "Player #2" though.

Update: The page is online here. Agile model can be ordered already. Looks like the C5 cannot be ordered yet.

I copy the original text overlay that they had on each image. Thoughts?

PLAYER #1 Agile: Fusion of Lightness and Quickness


Merging stiffness and elegance: Crafted with Toray T800+T1000 carbon and featuring a unique curved design, this creation is both robust and gracefully refined.



Horizontal Angled T-tail: Striking a perfect balance between aerodynamics and riding comfort. Tire clearance supports up to 32mm.


Sealed Axle design: The sealed thru axle design ensures a seamless appearance while maximizing aerodynamic performance.


Tangible excellence in performance: Precision-tuned aggressive geometry pushes the limits of performance with nimble control and on-demand acceleration, enhanced by the lightweight advantage of a T47 bottom bracket.



PLAYER #2 C5: Built for Steadiness and Toughness


Firm and Steady: The one-piece molding process delivers toughness, while the unique geometric design with the max tyre clearance of 32mm ensures a more stable riding experience.


Twisted T-tail Design: The slight twist in the tail design boosts comfort by smoothing out bumps, letting you ride further with ease.


Sealed Axle design: The sealed thru axle design ensures a seamless appearance while maximizing aerodynamic performance.


LONGER CHAINSTAY LENGTH: The extended chainstay length and precisely adjusted trail value improve the bike’s handling and steadiness.


[1]

Code: [Select]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qcVFxwAyg

[toxin]

Unfortunately it seem they are sticking with the triangular downtube on the agile, while doing it better on bike #2

[Stephiso]

According to their instagram it should be announced on Jan 20th so just 2 days away.

Looking forward to seeing both as i'm waiting for a new winspace frame!

[Velovelo]

@stb sounds like a sales rep from Winspace lol
Thanks for sharing though.
Anyways, frame looks great! Saw the DC performance video few months back.
This is sure going into my wish list.
Looking forward to user feedback.

[stb]

@stb sounds like a sales rep from Winspace lol

Far from it, I promise! 

Pure coincidence to be honest, I own a T1500 and wanted to check the geometry chart to compare my frame to another one I am interested.

Found out that they do not link to that frameset anymore but the URL can still be found with a quick search.

Then I saved a copy of the T1500 page for future reference and... ended up taking a snapshot of the entire website   

Hours later on another visit I realized that they removed the page with the new frames and decided to share it here 

[strayan_rice_farmer]

Unfortunately it seem they are sticking with the triangular downtube on the agile, while doing it better on bike #2

Could you enlighten me on why Triangle downtubes are seen as bad design these days?

Is it related to frame stiffness or how airflow interacts with bidons??

[toxin]

https://i.stack.imgur.com/zL0l2.png

On the right, 4th from the bottom vs 3rd from the top.

Obviously it'a bit more nuanced but I doubt Winspace have discovered some kind of secret while everyone else is doing kamm-tail and D-shape

[LL]

https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=y6qcVFxwAyg some more info on this frame. I am new around here also but I figured everyone saw this already. Remove the space after .com/

[Sakizashi]

https://i.stack.imgur.com/zL0l2.png

On the right, 4th from the bottom vs 3rd from the top.

Obviously it'a bit more nuanced but I doubt Winspace have discovered some kind of secret while everyone else is doing kamm-tail and D-shape

You need to look at the cross sections cut parallel to the ground. I am not really seeing much issue with the downtube shaping on the Agile and on the second bike the flat back shaping is a little sharp, but its got a rounded edge. I am not seeing what you are seeing. Not much of a triangle here.

Also downtubes aren't leading edges that hit clean air and don't seem to do much for the aerodynamics of bikes (See Tarmac SL8) and tubes like the ones on the Winspace aren't that different than what Ridley used on the Noah, Kanzo Fast and Falcn. Those bikes, despite their faults test pretty well aerodynamically

Generally not a fan of Winspace mostly because I find their marketing over the top and over emphasizing the uniqueness of features that either aren't unique or benefits that don't seem to make sense, but I don't see anything here that makes these bikes obviously better or worse than other bikes.

[toxin]

They've rounded out the transition and trailing edge a bit on the agile compared to the t1500, but the air still hits a a flat surface. Literally every serious aero bike has an airfoil(-ish) leading edge. I don't know what kind of bar setup they had but for a supposed aero bike the Noah Fast tested pretty shit in tour protocol and has a more rectangular than triangular downtube. The Falcn has a standard kamm-tail (closer to D shaped tbh) downtube.

And tour tested the SL8 with integrated aerobars 1 watt faster than the SL7 with a separate bar and stem. According to spesh themselves the new integrated bar is 3-4 watts faster (consistent with comparisons between one-piece and two-piece cockpits from various third party tests). Therefore it's an entirely logical inferrence that the SL7 frame is faster than the sl8.

[Sakizashi]

They've rounded out the transition and trailing edge a bit on the agile compared to the t1500, but the air still hits a a flat surface. Literally every serious aero bike has an airfoil(-ish) leading edge. I don't know what kind of bar setup they had but for a supposed aero bike the Noah Fast tested pretty shit in tour protocol and has a more rectangular than triangular downtube. The Falcn has a standard kamm-tail (closer to D shaped tbh) downtube.

And tour tested the SL8 with integrated aerobars 1 watt faster than the SL7 with a separate bar and stem. According to spesh themselves the new integrated bar is 3-4 watts faster (consistent with comparisons between one-piece and two-piece cockpits from various third party tests). Therefore it's an entirely logical inferrence that the SL7 frame is faster than the sl8.

The Agile has a different profile than the T1500. Besides, to give color to the absurdity of judging a bikes aero-ness by its pictures. The Noah Fast Disc in 2019 with its rectangular downtube tested at 213W. The Madone Disc back then was at 212w. The Sl7 was at 210w. Are you really claiming that you can judge 3w in Tour's test by eye? We also don't have a clear picture, like a cutaway showing the profile of the tube, so you are doing that via these angled pictures of the bike.

I would also be cautious re: the inference that the SL7 with a rider and the one piece Roval bars would be faster than the the SL8 set up the same way. You cant just add up these numbers that way and guess. Its also worth noting that Tour, despite having done the test you mentioned called the SL8 with its round-ish downtube as the best bike they have ever tested. They know the limitations of their testing protocol and how it applies to the real world and ran with the following byline: "The new Specialized Tarmac SL8 shows no weaknesses in the exclusive S-Works version and almost logically earns the best TOUR rating in history."

As far as I care to judge, until someone sticks these bikes in wind tunnel with a control frame, its not obviously aero or not aero.

[Stephiso]

The pictures are live in their website. However no order page or price available yet

[Velovelo]

Far from it, I promise! 

Pure coincidence to be honest, I own a T1500 and wanted to check the geometry chart to compare my frame to another one I am interested.

Found out that they do not link to that frameset anymore but the URL can still be found with a quick search.

Then I saved a copy of the T1500 page for future reference and... ended up taking a snapshot of the entire website   

Hours later on another visit I realized that they removed the page with the new frames and decided to share it here 

Ok, cool then
Thanks again for the detailed sharing

[c74]

Noticed that the geometry of the Agile is up on geomterygeeks, but is it trustworthy?

https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/winspace-agile-2024/

[Macedingle]

The second bike is called the C5