No6 wheels

[kubackje]

I saw
Norcal does say paid promotion...
Out of curiosity, I asked Peter from Xiamen Carbon speed for a similar setup to see if these wheels were magical or not. I wont share prices because i've already ordered quite a bit from him so i get special pricing; he can do full T800, 50mm 50mm (D50CU-33), 33/34mm wide (depends where you look on the rim), at 1310g w ceramic bearings, or 1320g w steel bearings (there's a material price difference between ceramic and steel, and i wouldn't buy ceramic myself because i'm yet to see any evidence it saves you even 1W, but i do know for a fact that bearings are more fragile, and last less).

So, given the n6 wheels are 45&50, we're at 1260vs1310, but the price difference is absolutely massive. I wonder how much Norcal is making from each wheelset he sells.
Idk where the 50g difference is, whether it's rim, hub or spokes. But i know that 80+kg me would save my money and accept the 50g penalty...

Rd270 is a very light hub. Does Peter have 40/50 combo ?

[James dean]

I saw
Norcal does say paid promotion...
Out of curiosity, I asked Peter from Xiamen Carbon speed for a similar setup to see if these wheels were magical or not. I wont share prices because i've already ordered quite a bit from him so i get special pricing; he can do full T800, 50mm 50mm (D50CU-33), 33/34mm wide (depends where you look on the rim), at 1310g w ceramic bearings, or 1320g w steel bearings (there's a material price difference between ceramic and steel, and i wouldn't buy ceramic myself because i'm yet to see any evidence it saves you even 1W, but i do know for a fact that bearings are more fragile, and last less).

So, given the n6 wheels are 45&50, we're at 1260vs1310, but the price difference is absolutely massive. I wonder how much Norcal is making from each wheelset he sells.
Idk where the 50g difference is, whether it's rim, hub or spokes. But i know that 80+kg me would save my money and accept the 50g penalty...

Can you share your thoughts on the wheels if you have ridden them? I’m not expecting these to be the next best thing to slice bread but wondering what your thoughts are.

Thank you

[Serge_K]

Does Peter have 40/50 combo ?

He does. In 33/34mm wide, he's got 35, 40, 50, 65mm depths.

Can you share your thoughts on the wheels if you have ridden them? I’m not expecting these to be the next best thing to slice bread but wondering what your thoughts are.
Thank you

I haven't ridden N6 wheels, nor carbon spoked wheels. I have 8k+ km on wheels from Peter though (55&58mm deep, steel spokes) and I'm super pleased w them. I've used Farsports wheels for many years, and couldn't tell them apart (afaik, T800 is what it is, sapim cx ray ditto, & a hub is a hub). In fact if you're using the same materials and specs, i really dont think anyone could tell wheelsets apart. I've bought 5 sets from Peter and we're all v happy with them.

[toxin]

What kind of spokes and hubs do xmcarbonspeed have available to get to that weight? No6 (farsports) rims should be about 70g lighter in total in those two setups

[Serge_K]

What kind of spokes do xmcarbonspeed have available to get to that weight? farsports rims should be about 70g lighter in total in those two setups

no idea, didn't ask. My knowledge of carbon spokes stops at "it's a (bladed) carbon spoke". Which, afaik, is pretty much all there is to it, no? It's stiff AF, a tad lighter than steel, and you don't want to break them.
I also suspect pretty much all carbon spokes ought to come from 1 or 2 factories?
Are there established good carbon spokes options, and bad ones?

[James dean]

He does. In 33/34mm wide, he's got 35, 40, 50, 65mm depths.

I haven't ridden N6 wheels, nor carbon spoked wheels. I have 8k+ km on wheels from Peter though (55&58mm deep, steel spokes) and I'm super pleased w them. I've used Farsports wheels for many years, and couldn't tell them apart (afaik, T800 is what it is, sapim cx ray ditto, & a hub is a hub). In fact if you're using the same materials and specs, i really dont think anyone could tell wheelsets apart. I've bought 5 sets from Peter and we're all v happy with them.

Can I ask what other wheels Peter makes besides number 6.

[Serge_K]

Can I ask what other wheels Peter makes besides number 6.

He doesn't make n6 wheels, toxin's been saying n6 gets their rims from farsports. I wrote that he can make a very similar spec for much less money.
Peter does OEM for brands we all know but i've been asked not to say because it's the sort of things brands dont like advertised in the open.

[James dean]

He doesn't make n6 wheels, toxin's been saying n6 gets their rims from farsports. I wrote that he can make a very similar spec for much less money.
Peter does OEM for brands we all know but i've been asked not to say because it's the sort of things brands dont like advertised in the open.

Thanks so much for all the replies although I’m so confused. Who can make a far less spec for less money?

Sorry

[Serge_K]

Thanks so much for all the replies although I’m so confused. Who can make a far less spec for less money?

Sorry

Peter from Xiamen carbon speed can make a spec very similar to N6 wheels (as per my previous post) for much less money.
Also, and obviously, if indeed it's Farsports that makes the rims /wheels for N6, then Farsports can probably make the same spec for less money, but i havent chatted with Windy in a long time because she's been on maternity leave so someone would have to confirm that.

[James dean]

Peter from Xiamen carbon speed can make a spec very similar to N6 wheels (as per my previous post) for much less money.
Also, and obviously, if indeed it's Farsports that makes the rims /wheels for N6, then Farsports can probably make the same spec for less money, but i havent chatted with Windy in a long time because she's been on maternity leave so someone would have to confirm that.

Thank you

[toxin]

The vast majority of non-bonded carbon spokes come from STREN, including all the western brands that use such carbon spokes (Cadex, Scope, Newmen, Black inc, Hunt and more). Winspace were one of the first to use them in mass production. Farsports make their own that they provide to some other brands. Lightbicycle might be making their own as well, not sure. I've heard conflicting things about CRW. CC Joe made it sound like they're a CRW in-house product but another wheel manufacturer says they also come from stren. Komcas (Superteam) has one design to make 1cm wide spokes that I haven't seen anywhere else. These spokes all require special hub and nipple interfaces due to the way the carbon fibres are locked with the metal parts. They are all much stronger than steel spokes and very impact resistant.

There is another type, which tries to emulate regular steel spoke interfaces by bonding the metal parts with the carbon in order to be able to use regular nipples and hubs. This type of design was implemented very poorly by Lightbicycle early on and their were spokes notoriously failure prone. Some customers recieved their wheels with almost all the spokes debonded from their intefaces out of the box. There is an improved version of this type of design that mitigates this by introducing barbs and some other stuff inside the metal bits to better retain the carbon. I haven't heard of failures with these but it is a fundamentally inferior design at the end of the day. I have absolutely no idea who makes them but they're available through Nextie, Aliexpress, EIE, Deerobust and others. They offer no advantage beyond compatibility with traditional hubs and I wouldn't use them over good steel spokes, tiny weight saving be damned.

No6 wheels are Farsports through and through, I could email Farsports right now and I could have my order in production by tommorrow with the exact same parts as No6 for a little more than half the price. They are not the only marketing brand doing this. I saw another yesterday and I thing there are at least another two I don't remember and probably several more I haven't heard of.

I was also asking because I don't see carbon spokes available on xmcarbonspeed website but I have a hard time imagining how they could get to that weight without them.

[James dean]

The vast majority of non-bonded carbon spokes come from STREN, including all the western brands that use such carbon spokes (Cadex, Scope, Newmen, Black inc, Hunt and more). Winspace were one of the first to use them in mass production. Farsports make their own that they provide to some other brands. Lightbicycle might be making their own as well, not sure. I've heard conflicting things about CRW. CC Joe made it sound like they're a CRW in-house product but another wheel manufacturer says they also come from stren. Komcas (Superteam) has one design to make 1cm wide spokes that I haven't seen anywhere else. These spokes all require special hub and nipple interfaces due to the way the carbon fibres are locked with the metal parts. They are all much stronger than steel spokes and very impact resistant.

There is another type, which tries to emulate regular steel spoke interfaces by bonding the metal parts with the carbon in order to be able to use regular nipples and hubs. This type of design was implemented very poorly by Lightbicycle early on and their were spokes notoriously failure prone. Some customers recieved their wheels with almost all the spokes debonded from their intefaces out of the box. There is an improved version of this type of design that mitigates this by introducing barbs and some other stuff inside the metal bits to better retain the carbon. I haven't heard of failures with these but it is a fundamentally inferior design at the end of the day. I have absolutely no idea who makes them but they're available through Nextie, Aliexpress, EIE, Deerobust and others. They offer no advantage beyond compatibility with traditional hubs and I wouldn't use them over good steel spokes, tiny weight saving be damned.

No6 wheels are Farsports through and through, I could email Farsports right now and I could have my order in production by tommorrow with the exact same parts as No6 for a little more than half the price. They are not the only marketing brand doing this. I saw another yesterday and I thing there are at least another two I don't remember and probably several more I haven't heard of.

I was also asking because I don't see carbon spokes available on xmcarbonspeed website but I have a hard time imagining how they could get to that weight without them.

Thank you for this your knowledge is amazing man. Love reading your posts.

[Serge_K]

I was also asking because I don't see carbon spokes available on xmcarbonspeed website but I have a hard time imagining how they could get to that weight without them.

The spec offered by XMC is 100% with carbon spokes. Basically i saw the norcal video, looked at the n6 link, chatted up Peter to see if he could build something similar and for how much. Carbon spokes is a feature, not just a way to reduce weight, so we picked the rim of the (almost) same depth, (almost) same width, same spokes (ie carbon), same hubs (ie ceramic bearings), resulting in (almost) the same weight.

[James dean]

The spec offered by XMC is 100% with carbon spokes. Basically i saw the norcal video, looked at the n6 link, chatted up Peter to see if he could build something similar and for how much. Carbon spokes is a feature, not just a way to reduce weight, so we picked the rim of the (almost) same depth, (almost) same width, same spokes (ie carbon), same hubs (ie ceramic bearings), resulting in (almost) the same weight.

@serge and @toxin.

If you were building a set of wheels to ride in winter 30-35 mm depth around 1200 granms 21 internal 28 external. Nothing fancy how would you build them. I need a set of winter trainers and can’t figure out where or who to use.

Thank you so much gentlemen

[toxin]

https://wheelsfar.com/hyper-disc-26mmwide-dt-swiss-240-new-exp-built-tubeless-wheel-set-24h-24h-p0184.html

Or

https://www.carbonbikekits.com/carbon-road-bike/carbon-road-bike-rims-wheels/28mm-width/700c-35x28mm-carbon-tubeless-hooked-hookless-road-bike-rim