Winspace T1550

[Raidennnnn]

Hello everyone! I bought a winspace t1550 gen 2 frame. And there are some flaws inside that bother me. There are carbon fibers sticking out inside the head tube. Also, the carbon in the bottom bracket looks weird. I would like to know if this is normal and if such things can affect reliability.

[Raidennnnn]

[BeR]

Again ? Same problem as another user.

It is not acceptable for the price.

[dolph]

My t1550 gen2 went out for shipping yesterday and I see 2 worrying topics about  winspace here. I m starting to regret paying a premium forma a brand that was supposed to be good. I should have gone for the quickpro with a small premium on pandapodium por save some money and straight from factory.

Winspace doesnt seem appealing anymore, the xray sh*t that they advertise just seems like a gimmick, and their QC only works for youtube/instagram cl*wns.

[Serge_K]

I'm not an expert, but i've bought a dozen OEM frames in the last 3y, and if i had to pay Winspace prices to receive that, i'd go ape shit.
Loose carbon strands in critical areas (headset & bottom bracket cups) isn't exactly reassuring. carbon fiber strands without the resin matrix have zero strength. So if the edges of the frame like that has such strands, critical areas of the frame potentially have compromised strength.
Now, that being said, you have a T47 BB, which kind of exists to allow shoddy manufacturing, which is exactly what you have here. As long as the metal shell is bonded to the frame, having loose strands around it scares me much less than if the BB were press fit. The headset bearing cups dont look pretty, but unless there's a clear oval (vs round) or a clear lip that's not of constant thickness and so on, i think you're safe.
The ugly patch in the middle of the BB area looks bad, but it doesnt look like you have big ass shards that weren't compressed like the frame we saw last week another user post. It's probably from manufacturing process, and just shows they suck.

Basically, if you look at the inside of the fake Ostro frames on this forum, and at these 2 winspace frames, i know who i'd work with... The level of irony in the fact sellers of fake products have products that look 10x tighter than Winspace...

Patlean mentioned that winspace may be struggling financially from supporting a racing team and being burdened with out of date wheels. that would make sense, and i would expect them to cut corners.

I'd stay away from that brand, because you pay a LOT more than what competitors offer (all over this forum), but they treat you like a$$ if you complain. And they have the audacity to say this is normal to receive such frames at the price point, so why take that trade? For anyone wanting to spend winspace territory money, i'd consider at the fake Factors on the thread here, and get it without a logo. Or get Peter's upcoming Gran Turismo frame, because it's likely going to be a similar price point with T1100, 40T, 30T fibers. The new van rysel aero frame uses T1100, T40 and T60, similar to the real Factor frames, so we're talking high end stuff. Much higher end than Winspace, btw.

[Raidennnnn]

I'm not an expert, but i've bought a dozen OEM frames in the last 3y, and if i had to pay Winspace prices to receive that, i'd go ape shit.
Loose carbon strands in critical areas (headset & bottom bracket cups) isn't exactly reassuring. carbon fiber strands without the resin matrix have zero strength. So if the edges of the frame like that has such strands, critical areas of the frame potentially have compromised strength.
Now, that being said, you have a T47 BB, which kind of exists to allow shoddy manufacturing, which is exactly what you have here. As long as the metal shell is bonded to the frame, having loose strands around it scares me much less than if the BB were press fit. The headset bearing cups dont look pretty, but unless there's a clear oval (vs round) or a clear lip that's not of constant thickness and so on, i think you're safe.
The ugly patch in the middle of the BB area looks bad, but it doesnt look like you have big ass shards that weren't compressed like the frame we saw last week another user post. It's probably from manufacturing process, and just shows they suck.

Basically, if you look at the inside of the fake Ostro frames on this forum, and at these 2 winspace frames, i know who i'd work with... The level of irony in the fact sellers of fake products have products that look 10x tighter than Winspace...

Patlean mentioned that winspace may be struggling financially from supporting a racing team and being burdened with out of date wheels. that would make sense, and i would expect them to cut corners.

I'd stay away from that brand, because you pay a LOT more than what competitors offer (all over this forum), but they treat you like a$$ if you complain. And they have the audacity to say this is normal to receive such frames at the price point, so why take that trade? For anyone wanting to spend winspace territory money, i'd consider at the fake Factors on the thread here, and get it without a logo. Or get Peter's upcoming Gran Turismo frame, because it's likely going to be a similar price point with T1100, 40T, 30T fibers. The new van rysel aero frame uses T1100, T40 and T60, similar to the real Factor frames, so we're talking high end stuff. Much higher end than Winspace, btw.

Thanks for the detailed answer. I expected a good frame for that price. Let's see what winspace says

[BeR]

I'm not an expert, but i've bought a dozen OEM frames in the last 3y, and if i had to pay Winspace prices to receive that, i'd go ape shit.
Loose carbon strands in critical areas (headset & bottom bracket cups) isn't exactly reassuring. carbon fiber strands without the resin matrix have zero strength. So if the edges of the frame like that has such strands, critical areas of the frame potentially have compromised strength.
Now, that being said, you have a T47 BB, which kind of exists to allow shoddy manufacturing, which is exactly what you have here. As long as the metal shell is bonded to the frame, having loose strands around it scares me much less than if the BB were press fit. The headset bearing cups dont look pretty, but unless there's a clear oval (vs round) or a clear lip that's not of constant thickness and so on, i think you're safe.
The ugly patch in the middle of the BB area looks bad, but it doesnt look like you have big ass shards that weren't compressed like the frame we saw last week another user post. It's probably from manufacturing process, and just shows they suck.

Basically, if you look at the inside of the fake Ostro frames on this forum, and at these 2 winspace frames, i know who i'd work with... The level of irony in the fact sellers of fake products have products that look 10x tighter than Winspace...

Patlean mentioned that winspace may be struggling financially from supporting a racing team and being burdened with out of date wheels. that would make sense, and i would expect them to cut corners.

I'd stay away from that brand, because you pay a LOT more than what competitors offer (all over this forum), but they treat you like a$$ if you complain. And they have the audacity to say this is normal to receive such frames at the price point, so why take that trade? For anyone wanting to spend winspace territory money, i'd consider at the fake Factors on the thread here, and get it without a logo. Or get Peter's upcoming Gran Turismo frame, because it's likely going to be a similar price point with T1100, 40T, 30T fibers. The new van rysel aero frame uses T1100, T40 and T60, similar to the real Factor frames, so we're talking high end stuff. Much higher end than Winspace, btw.

Where did you find the carbon layup of the Van Rysel. What is T40, T60 compared to 1100, 1000... ?

[Blueberry]

exposed fibers is 100% sus, that should not happen. That dent you see in the bb is a normal relic from their EPS molding process though, my winspace bottom bracket had a big chip in that bb area and they sent me several photos saying "it's part of the molding process" that show exactly you pictured. The issue for me was what my BB did not look like their photos.

I attached the image they sent of their normal BB and my chipped BB. You can see in mine, the chipped area goes all the way down to the drilled hole in the bottom of the bb. Their normal, smaller dent is further back in there and looks a lot more like your frame. Your headtube definitely looks bad, but the bb is okay.

I had a miserable time dealing with their customer support, I hope your experience is better than mine.

[Serge_K]

Where did you find the carbon layup of the Van Rysel. What is T40, T60 compared to 1100, 1000... ?

One of the van rysel guys mentioned that during an interview i saw on youtube. GCN one, from memory.
40/60 i think is T or M. So i think T40 is M40 or 40M. It's all quite confusing and few people really know the ins and outs of the topic, i think - and certainly not me. T in T800 is for Toray. I think the M is for Mitsubishi. But i think Mitsubishi is making Toray fibers. I understand 40T and 30T is similar to T800 and T700. But more expensive and better performance. So 60T is probably like T1000.
Anyhow, it's apparently what expensive frames are made of (the high end stuff, like Factor, Sworks, Pinarello). Giant, Merida, Cube, Orbea, all these, afaik, use lower grade stuff, probably very similar to what our OEM frames have.
Also, does any of this really matter, or is it a flex? idk. But it's probably the tricks pulled to shave the last 50 or 100g off a frame, and it's probably why you have a jump in price, because T700 & T800 is everywhere, but T/M40/60 isn't.

[Sakizashi]

One of the van rysel guys mentioned that during an interview i saw on youtube. GCN one, from memory.
40/60 i think is T or M. So i think T40 is M40 or 40M. It's all quite confusing and few people really know the ins and outs of the topic, i think - and certainly not me. T in T800 is for Toray. I think the M is for Mitsubishi. But i think Mitsubishi is making Toray fibers. I understand 40T and 30T is similar to T800 and T700. But more expensive and better performance. So 60T is probably like T1000.
Anyhow, it's apparently what expensive frames are made of (the high end stuff, like Factor, Sworks, Pinarello). Giant, Merida, Cube, Orbea, all these, afaik, use lower grade stuff, probably very similar to what our OEM frames have.
Also, does any of this really matter, or is it a flex? idk. But it's probably the tricks pulled to shave the last 50 or 100g off a frame, and it's probably why you have a jump in price, because T700 & T800 is everywhere, but T/M40/60 isn't.

I think Toray and Mitsubishi still have a JV that owns a plant in Jalisco, MX, but for the most part, they are different companies and do not supply each other. Toray isn't exactly a large company, but it isn't small and sells a lot of other textiles and plastics. However, the M65 / M46 designation is a Toray one, and the grades of Mitsubishi fibers are different, and they don't map to the Toray products.

https://www.toraycma.com/wp-content/uploads/Carbon-Fiber-Selector-Guide.pdf

The basics of this is that within a specific price point, there is usually a tradeoff between tensile strength and modulus or strength and stiffness. And the prices go up relatively quickly as yields go down for higher grades of fibers. While mixing in different fibers undoubtedly raises costs, you can see in the spec sheet that using those different materials gives the designers greater freedom to make the bike stiffer in certain places vs. just using differing amounts of materials. I don't know how much of the difference in frame tuning is due to materials alone or simply a result of spending the time and expense to tune the frame. I like to see a mix of an intermediate (e.g., T800 or T100) and hi-mod fiber (e.g., M40J) because process and attention make a difference. It's not quite like this, but t800+m40j offers a slightly wider design space than even something like t800+t1100 in terms of stiffness, though the frame would be heavier.

Specific to the Winspace frames, I would guess that the 2nd gen 1550 is a step up from the 1st gen in terms of layup complexity, but the SL3 is yet another step up.

[Blueberry]

@Raidennnnn have you heard anything back from Winspace about this yet?

[Raidennnnn]

@Raidennnnn have you heard anything back from Winspace about this yet?

They said that it was normal and that it was due to the molding process.

[Blueberry]

They said that it was normal and that it was due to the molding process.

At least as far as the headtube is concerned, that is a flat out lie. I would recommend doing a chargeback or filing a dispute with your credit card company. They can't be charging Winspace prices for terrible quality like that and should be held responsible. You could go the route of trying to exchange it like I did but that's been a mess and I would not recommend it. Do a chargeback, get your money and buy something else.

Based on my experience, Winspace has no intention of doing any after-sales support and their warranty is a sham. Their company policies are in direct violation of their terms of service agreements with creditors. The more people who file claims against them the, the better for us as consumers.

I typed out a page-long summary of my whole experience with Winspace that I shared with my credit card company when I filed a dispute. I can share it with you think it will be helpful.

[Serge_K]

I typed out a page-long summary of my whole experience with Winspace that I shared with my credit card company when I filed a dispute. I can share it with you think it will be helpful.

I would consider publishing this in a clean thread with personal info sanitized, as a reference for others. It's daunting for most to file claims, to formally complain and so on, it's often scary. If they see how it's done, it can empower them not to simply be stepped on and pushed over. Often, people simply don't know their rights, and companies abuse that (and financial institutions).

Also, fuck winspace.