Author Topic: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?  (Read 8084 times)

SportingGoods

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2016, 04:14:13 AM »
Interesting   ???
How does it work to mount the wheel? How do you get the nipples in place? You can't use a nipple driver, right?
Must be a pain, no?

carbonazza

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 05:50:06 AM »
Here are short videos from Peter that shows how it works:





Carbon_Dude

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2016, 06:25:55 AM »
I was wondering if they needed to use steel nipples in order to use a magnet to move the nipple in place but they put in a threaded steel part in the brass or alloy nipple first then remove it before inserting the spoke.

It's a nice system, particularly compared to my Sun-Ringle Mulefut rims which have lots of leak paths.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

SportingGoods

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2016, 07:39:38 AM »
Nice! I like the concept.

Honestly tape doesn't look good to me. That's what I use, it works fine but... I just don't consider that a good design. I really like those no-hole rims, but I'm not ready to build a wheel with those. I will keep it as simple as possible for my next 2-3 wheelset.

cmh

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2016, 08:17:34 PM »
Honestly tape doesn't look good to me. That's what I use, it works fine but... I just don't consider that a good design.

Doesn't look good? Isn't it covered by your tire in almost all conditions? :D

Aside from not looking good, curious why you don't think it's a good design. It's simple, it works, results in a wheel that's easy to build... hard to fault it.

I like the concept of the rim with no holes in it, but haven't seen any design that makes me think it would be anything less than a huge pain to build. If you can ignore the wheelbuilder's pain (I can't as it is mine) it's a nice setup as long as there aren't any design issues that would otherwise compromise the wheel. I've gotta say I like the drag-it-through-with-a-magnet approach far better than Mavic's approach of threading into the rim.

SportingGoods

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2016, 03:55:20 AM »
Well, my "problem" with tape is that it's temporary. I use it the right way (clean the rim, start before the valve and finish after the valve so that it is locked in place by the valve) but still it's... tape :) I never had any issue with it but it can be damaged while taking off a tire. I don't have 100% confidence in it.
It works with someone experienced. I wouldn't let my wife or my son setup a wheel, it would leak for sure.

Midwest-MTBer

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2016, 12:19:14 PM »
Carbonazza, How do you like your rims? Peter is only going to charge an extra $5 for the set of rims without the holes in them. Do you think they hold a seal as well? Any change to the amount of sealant you use with the system? I'm pretty stoked about the whole idea... The cheapest tape I could find was about $12 a roll for 25mm.

carbonazza

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2016, 07:10:06 PM »
Here is my first laced wheel !! Not yet completed/tensioned though 8)


The magnet procedure seen on Peter's videos is easy.
Well... I lost a nipple in the rim, when unscrewing it the first time only, and it was a pain to get it out.
But after a few times, it becomes a very easy move.

Thanks to the book of Roger Musson, I'm doing good so far.
I'll see tomorrow how it goes on the truing stand  :o

The seal should be better than a tape(that can fail or not correctly placed).
And there should be the same amount of sealant I guess.

Carbon_Dude

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2016, 09:05:47 PM »
Yes, same amount of sealant.  the sealant shouldn't be there to seal the tape to the rim, only the tire to the rim, the sidewall, and any punctures :).
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

carbonazza

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2016, 10:30:03 AM »
Here are some pictures of the wheel finished.
All in all it was very instructive and easier than it looks.



The rear wheel was built first.
I didn't check the dish early and had to correct it late which is not good.


These are sapim C-Xray and Secure Locks nipples.
I see on that picture that some blades could be better aligned :)


Here is a view of the rim without holes.
Playing with the screws/nipple and a magnet is as easy as in Peter's video( not the first ones, but it comes quick ).
Due to their V-Shape, long valves are needed, probably 60mm or more.
I will buy Continental Tubes, with 82mm valves, and cut them. This is a far cheaper option than buying tubeless valves.


The front wheel was a major pain.

Not for the building in itself, but because there was a remaining piece of the plastic bag that inflates the carbon against the mold inside.
We saw that already in broken frames.
So it must be more common than we think.
However here, it prevented to move the nipples inside to 4 holes !

After fiddling a couple of hours, I was able to tear apart the plastic with a tip through the holes, and let the nipples move.
This is obviously a problem specific to no-hole rims.

Unfortunately one nipple+screw is still stuck in that plastic plug, it doesn't move anymore, even with a strong magnet.
And I can't ear anything, I'm afraid this will get out probably one day at a bad moment :(
I discussed this with Peter, that this could be checked in a minute on their side to not happen again.

I meticulously followed Roger Musson book too.
Although against some of his advices, I took high-end/exotic parts for my first build: carbon rims, bladed spokes, alloy nipples, and the no-holes rims.

I won't ride them before mid-July after my vacations.
If you never built a wheel, and like to tinker, do not hesitate to try, it is a very gratifying experience.



« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 10:33:39 AM by carbonazza »

cmh

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2016, 04:44:09 PM »
I meticulously followed Roger Musson book too.
Although against some of his advices, I took high-end/exotic parts for my first build: carbon rims, bladed spokes, alloy nipples, and the no-holes rims.

Wheel looks good!

Honestly I think building with bladed spokes makes the first build easier. so much easier to prevent spoke twist, which is part of why most builders suggest against using light spokes for a first build. Starting with straight 14g makes spoke twist more or less irrelevant.

Same for building with those carbon rims... I think most builders warn against _light_ rims more than carbon - and the size/shape of those is going to make them very strong and more predictable, I'd think.

Alloy nipples aren't a problem if you're careful, but round it off and you just replace it. Not a HUGE problem.

Now as for the no-holes rims, you already said how that went for you, but you surmounted it nicely.

Great job! You'll be really happy to ride those wheels.

carbonazza

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2016, 07:59:51 PM »
I think building with bladed spokes makes the first build easier.
Definitely, bladed spokes make it obvious when they twist.
Although the aero is not that significant for MTB, it appears they make stiffer wheels for accelerating/braking and as strong if not stronger as round spokes.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/seven-essential-features-new-wheels-must-232168

Midwest-MTBer

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2016, 09:19:44 PM »
Carbonazza, I'm going to be curious to see the valves that you end up using. I bought a set of American Classic tubeless valves, and I'm curious to see if they'll work with this shape rim.

cmh

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2016, 02:10:18 PM »
I think building with bladed spokes makes the first build easier.
Definitely, bladed spokes make it obvious when they twist.
Although the aero is not that significant for MTB, it appears they make stiffer wheels for accelerating/braking and as strong if not stronger as round spokes.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/seven-essential-features-new-wheels-must-232168

"Aero spokes are also used in mountain biking (where aerodynamic are not a factor) because they are just as strong if not stronger than standard round spokes, while they are also stiffer under acceleration and braking."

Wrong. The blade forming process improved the fatigue life through cold working. It does not change the stiffness in any way, shape, or form. The stiffness of the metal doesn't change, and the cross section remains the same. A bladed spoke will lend the same stiffness to a wheel as the source round spoke. This is along the same lines as the "radial lacing is stiffer" fallacy.

carbonazza

Re: CS-036 Build Resources and other tips?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2016, 03:37:38 PM »
@Midwest-MTBer, I'm away for 15 days, when I'm back I'll give you details

@cmh, ok, we can just keep they are easier to see twisting