Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Julian on July 19, 2021, 12:58:37 AM
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So, after the FM 1266 has been on the Flybike website for a while (and changed from a Santa Cruz clone to something more original), Carbonda has now announced the same frame called "FM 1003" for end of 2021.
For geo and render pic, see link below
http://www.carbonda.com/news/136.html
It uses a four bar design with a large one-piece rear triangle, making it look more like a single pivot. I've done a quick analysis with Linkage X3 and the results are promising. Very nice linear progression thoughout the travel and 100 per cent anti squat at sag (32t).
Anti rise seems a bit high though. In theory, this means that the rear end won't extend under braking, keeping it low (which is a good thing). But also the suspension may get stiffer and lose traction when braking over a bumby surface.
Can't say if this is a copy of another bike. If not, then this is an impressive new development.
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Am I reading that right, 180mm rear travel? On the schematic in the link
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Yes, 180mm supposedly.
My software calculated 170mm for a 65mm stroke shock though, not sure why.
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And what a 180mm in front too ? :o
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Zeb comes in 190 doesn't it?
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Zeb comes in 190 doesn't it?
Zeb maxes out at 190, comes in lots of sizes.
I've said it before: A 170/180mm is chiner. What a time to be alive. And from Carbonda too.
Edit: looks like another thirsty bike.
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Yes it is available in 190mm
https://r2-bike.com/ROCKSHOX-Suspension-Fork-29-ZEB-Ultimate-Charger-21-RC2-DebonAir-190-mm-BOOST-44-mm-Offset-tapered-grey-2021
With my recent enduro experience... this would be a crazy bike to ride in the Alps
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I've a 180 lyrik on my p9 and honestly it's great, not finding it hampering the climbing ability at all really, great going down then, can only imagine having that much travel back and forth
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And what a 180mm in front too ? :o
Seems like it :)
The 64 degree head angle is based on a 588mm fork (axle to crown). 180mm forks are a bit longer, lyrik is 591, zeb 596mm. A 190mm zeb will bring the head angle close to 63 degrees...
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63° but once sagged or deep in the travel, the difference won't be noticeable.
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@julian
"a four bar design with a large one-piece rear triangle"
This confuses me a little. Any mainstream brand examples of this?
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@julian
"a four bar design with a large one-piece rear triangle"
This confuses me a little. Any mainstream brand examples of this?
I may have used a confusing description. A four bar usually has a link in the seat stay, close to the rear axle. The FM1003 however has a one piece rear triangle with the "seat stay" link very close to the seat post. So it's like a four bar, but maybe it should rather be called a "linkage driven single pivot". Most famous example of this type is probably the EVIL bikes line up. Solid rear as well, but with a more intricate shock linkage.
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Biggest issue with the design.....no bottle cage mount :D
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Looks like a full-gas trail destroyer to me. I like! 8)
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So it's like a four bar, but maybe it should rather be called a "linkage driven single pivot".
Looks to be a beefy single pivot.
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It actually looks like a Revel Rail.
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According to Adam, Carbonda has FM1003 Frames available for purchase, but medium size only. I'm waiting on the large. Sorry, I don't have any other info.
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Has anyone purchased this frame yet?
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Has anyone purchased this frame yet?
From what Wing told me, they are still waiting on the full production run. There are only a handful of samples in Medium at the moment.
Pricing is $1150 if I remember correctly.
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From what Wing told me, they are still waiting on the full production run. There are only a handful of samples in Medium at the moment.
Pricing is $1150 if I remember correctly.
Thank you! Lucky I’m a medium then ;D Will email and see what they say
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...Will email and see what they say
Be patient it is holiday time in China until the 10th of February.
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FYI
- 180mm Travel Front & Rear
- Only Size M in stock at the moment. If you want another size, deposit of $100 USD and could take up to April or longer
- Wing not sure about fitting a Coil shock. Can check when Tech department is back
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Going through the diagram drawings of the FM1003. Rear shock specs = 205x65 = 180mm travel. Is this correct for 180mm rear travel or have they made a typo?
FM1002 rear shock is 150mm- 200x60
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Going through the diagram drawings of the FM1003. Rear shock specs = 205x65 = 180mm travel. Is this correct for 180mm rear travel or have they made a typo?
FM1002 rear shock is 150mm- 200x60
That’s correct — or rather close, both shocks are 205 trunnion but have 60 and 65mm stroke respectively. The leverage ratios and curves on the two are a bit different.
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Anyone have an idea what bike this frame is roughly based on?
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Anyone have an idea what bike this frame is roughly based on?
I haven't seen any other bike like this. There might be some resemblance to the Nukeproof Giga which also uses a linkage driven single pivot design.
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Have just placed an order for a 1003 frame :D
A bit nervous and excited!
Will update everyone how It goes
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Have just placed an order for a 1003 frame :D
A bit nervous and excited!
Will update everyone how It goes
That’s great news, can’t wait to see one built up and the question of 180 vs 190 front travel addressed (whether the handling is really optimal at 180 etc).
If my FM1002 ordered Dec. 29th last year is any indication, you’ll probably have it in less than a month.
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Should I order/buy anything whilst I wait for the frame so it can make life little easier for building?
Shock mounting bolts?
Seat post clamp?
Bottom Bracket?
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Should I order/buy anything whilst I wait for the frame so it can make life little easier for building?
Shock mounting bolts?
Seat post clamp?
Bottom Bracket?
These are small parts, you should get them anytime with no struggle.
Mounting Bolts should be a part of the Frame? But the Spacers for the shock mount might be needed (ask them directly, because there is no spec sheet of the frame right now).
Dont know how Carbonda is selling the frame. My Ican p9 had the derailleur hanger, Bottombraket & Headset included.
I mean if you get the parts like Shock, Fork, dropper post, wheels, shifter at great discount, then why not?
Which colourway options do you had? Did you ordered a RAW or colored frame?.
How much did you payed if iam allowed to ask?
Any news for the size L or XL frame? I want to retire the Ican p9 after this season. It would be the perfect candidate for new build comming winter.
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Which colourway options do you had? Did you ordered a RAW or colored frame?.
How much did you payed if iam allowed to ask?
Any news for the size L or XL frame? I want to retire the Ican p9 after this season. It would be the perfect candidate for new build comming winter.
$1150 usd + $230 shipping to Aus. I just got the standard matte (free colour option) which makes the frame look like black anyway.
Not sure only the other sizes, was just told April or longer with a $10 deposit
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I may have used a confusing description. A four bar usually has a link in the seat stay, close to the rear axle. The FM1003 however has a one piece rear triangle with the "seat stay" link very close to the seat post. So it's like a four bar, but maybe it should rather be called a "linkage driven single pivot". Most famous example of this type is probably the EVIL bikes line up. Solid rear as well, but with a more intricate shock linkage.
This is a single pivot design. No intermediate link between the rear triangle and the seat stay.
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Frame has been shipped :D
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Anyone have a working email address for carbonda?
getting bouncebacks off info@ and other previous addresses.
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Anyone have a working email address for carbonda?
getting bouncebacks off info@ and other previous addresses.
Go to http://www.carbonda.com/mountain/full-suspension/134.html and click on "inquiry"
OR sales1 at carbonda.com
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Anyone have the slightest clue if I am able to fit a Manitou Mara Pro rear shock to this frame?
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Anyone have the slightest clue if I am able to fit a Manitou Mara Pro rear shock to this frame?
My guess is that you’d have no problem if you can get a Mara in 205x65 Trunnion. The space for the shock on the 1003 is pretty wide open and unencumbered.
The main question, if you want a size other than Medium, is are you willing to wait until at least April, possibly May or later?
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My guess is that you’d have no problem if you can get a Mara in 205x65 Trunnion. The space for the shock on the 1003 is pretty wide open and unencumbered.
The main question, if you want a size other than Medium, is are you willing to wait until at least April, possibly May or later?
Well ive ordered a medium :)
Have managed to find dimensions of the Mara Pro. Will double check once frame arrives
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Frame delivered :D :D
Top quality! Very happy
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can you weigh the naked frame please ? ;D
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Is there no chainstay/bb guard Like in the product Pictures included?
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Frame delivered :D :D
Top quality! Very happy
Thank you for sizing your pics so that they can be viewed on one screen without having to scroll.
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can you weigh the naked frame please ? ;D
I just tried on normal standing human weight ones and cannot get it :(. BUT on the shipping box it came in it noted "2kg". So it'll be about that or so.
Is there no chainstay/bb guard Like in the product Pictures included?
No, nothing like that but that an easy and cheap fix.
Thank you for sizing your pics so that they can be viewed on one screen without having to scroll.
;D welcome!
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In regards to bushings. From my understanding, I need for the frame M8x15
Will these work/be ok? - 8x15 option - https://www.tftuned.com/tf-tuned-mount-kit-127mm-m8/p2937
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Frame delivered :D :D
Top quality! Very happy
It looks great! Thank you for taking the plunge and buying first.
It looks like the linkage has a large metal piece where shock meets the rear, does it look like that piece could hit the frame hard?
Also, remember to tighten all the linkage to spec, they are often not all the way tight from carbonda. I just had to replace a linkage screw on my FM936 since I never tightened it all the way.
Those bushings should work I think.
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It looks great! Thank you for taking the plunge and buying first.
It looks like the linkage has a large metal piece where shock meets the rear, does it look like that that piece could hit the frame hard?
Also, remember to tighten all the linkage to spec, they are often not all the way tight from carbonda. I just had to replace a linkage screw on my FM936 since I never tightened it all the way.
Those bushings should work I think.
I don't have a shock on it at the moment. Right now as is (the way it came shipped with the plastic thing) it does hit the frame. Once I have the shock installed I will definitely test it out properly.
Thanks for the reminder about the tightening! Will do this when I install shock. Should I be adding a little bit of grease too?
Have now ordered 8x15mm bushings ;D
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Great looking frame. Keen to see how these come out.
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I don't have a shock on it at the moment. Right now as is (the way it came shipped with the plastic thing) it does hit the frame. Once I have the shock installed I will definitely test it out properly.
Thanks for the reminder about the tightening! Will do this when I install shock. Should I be adding a little bit of grease too?
Have now ordered 8x15mm bushings ;D
My FM936 came with the bearings greased but it couldn't hurt. Hope the bushings fit!
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Hopefully not much longer! Just waiting on my brakes and drive train parts to be delivered.
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Bike has been built ;D Heavier than i thought it would be (maybe because im so used to HT 27.5")
Will post up some pics & specs soon.
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Here it is :D
It has been raining a lot in Syd AUS, so I haven't been able to take it out on the trails yet :( Hopefully in the next week or two
Specs/Parts
- Forks: RockShox Lyrik 180mm
- Shock: RochShox Super Deluxe Ultimate with MegNeg Upgrade
- Drive Train: SLX M7100 Groupset
- Brakes: M7120 4 Pot with Ice Pads
- Rotors: Shimano SLX RT-66 - F 220m / R 203mm
- Wheels: Dabomb Advance 29"
- Stem: Deity Cavity Stem
- Seat Post Clamp: Nukeproof
- Grips: Jetblack Rivet
- Bar: PRO FRS - 800mm - 40mm Rise
- Pedals: CrankBrothers
- Dropper: OneUP 120mm Travel
- Tyres: R DHR II 29x2.6" / F DHF 29x2.6"
- Valve: Dert Premium Tubeless Valve
- Saddle: WTB Volt Cromoly
- Bash Guard: OneUp Chain & Bash Guide
Rough weight is 15KG
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1st Ride Review
Climbing - Climbs HEAPS better than my 2016 275 HT. Minimal to no pedal bob. Things that I could not do before I am able to do with ease now. :D So far cannot fault climbing.
Descending - Amazing! Did not have any sketchy moments thinking I was going OTB etc. Im still getting use to newer geometry so I have to remember no need to lean back as much as I had to on my old Hard Tail (shorts scrapped the back wheel a few times)
Can pretty much point the bike down at any line and it just eats everything up
Still need to tweak the Fork & Shock a little, but I think im almost there.
Note: The standard free colour the bike comes with does pick up/show oil, fingerprint marks etc. So, if anyone was considering this frame, prob better to get a custom paint job
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1st Ride Review
Climbing - Climbs HEAPS better than my 2016 275 HT. Minimal to no pedal bob. Things that I could not do before I am able to do with ease now. :D So far cannot fault climbing.
Descending - Amazing! Did not have any sketchy moments thinking I was going OTB etc. Im still getting use to newer geometry so I have to remember no need to lean back as much as I had to on my old Hard Tail (shorts scrapped the back wheel a few times)
Can pretty much point the bike down at any line and it just eats everything up
Still need to tweak the Fork & Shock a little, but I think im almost there.
Note: The standard free colour the bike comes with does pick up/show oil, fingerprint marks etc. So, if anyone was considering this frame, prob better to get a custom paint job
Yeah, I’ve been pretty underwhelmed with the standard matte black paint on my FM1002. It chips, scratches and shows any kind of surface contamination way too easily. Custom painting is not necessarily perfect either but I suspect it’s a lot thicker and more resilient.
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This frame is available in size large now!
Adam said it's about ~3.5kg and 1180 USD
I went with the FM1002 instead.
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Is this even available anymore? It is not on carbonda or flybike site anymore..
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Is this even available anymore? It is not on carbonda or flybike site anymore..
That’s a good question. This link is still up: http://www.carbonda.com/news/136.html (http://www.carbonda.com/news/136.html)
I can’t think of why it would be discontinued but it would be good to confirm status…
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Is this even available anymore? It is not on carbonda or flybike site anymore..
This design wasn't scrapped, Carbonda claims a lot of R&D went into making the frame. If it doesn't become publicly available it would be because another company bought exclusive rights to the frame.
I bet they are just working out the layup for XL sizes and it will be on the website soon.
This is the frame I wanted before I reluctantly went for a FM1002 instead. Frankly, I couldn't justify getting a bike that goes this hard. I'm sure it climbs well and destroys technical downhill, but it's absolutely overkill for almost everything I ride.
I would love to see more builds/reviews of this frame.
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Here it is :D
Any updates, Zooky? I’m very curious to hear how it’s been riding…and in particular, how well it performs as an all-around daily driver bike. Rear end stiffness, pedaling efficiency, how well it jumps and wheelies….
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Hey All!
So far the frame has been AMAZIING! It is my first FS bike so its a little hard for me to compare to anything else. The more I ride, the more and more I love it and definitely the hard/faster you go it really shines.
As noted above in my previous post, the standard black paint is not very good. It is holding up just fine but I think a custom/additional paint job would prob be better.
Also note - there is no hole near/around bottom bracket so if you wash your bike a lot water builds up until you take the BB out and let it drain
If anyone needs specifics let us know
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Hey All!
So far the frame has been AMAZIING! It is my first FS bike so its a little hard for me to compare to anything else. The more I ride, the more and more I love it and definitely the hard/faster you go it really shines.
As noted above in my previous post, the standard black paint is not very good. It is holding up just fine but I think a custom/additional paint job would prob be better.
Also note - there is no hole near/around bottom bracket so if you wash your bike a lot water builds up until you take the BB out and let it drain
If anyone needs specifics let us know
There’s a somewhat similar issue with the FM1002 (and I assume 1001) where if you rinse off the bike, you have to tilt it really far both forward and backward to drain water out of the linkage and frame from the pivot points. I wonder if it’s possible to get water out of the FM1003 the same way or the only option really is to remove the BB (which is obviously not great).
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I emailed Wing at Carbonda and she said the FM1003 is still available in M and L. Not sure about other sizes.
If I’m reading between the lines of what she said correctly, it’s still being actively produced.
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There’s a somewhat similar issue with the FM1002 (and I assume 1001) where if you rinse off the bike, you have to tilt it really far both forward and backward to drain water out of the linkage and frame from the pivot points. I wonder if it’s possible to get water out of the FM1003 the same way or the only option really is to remove the BB (which is obviously not great).
Interesting! I'll try it out after the next wash and let you know
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Ive just drilled a 3mm hole in the Centre of the bottom bracket on my 831 frame works a treat
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Interesting! I'll try it out after the next wash and let you know
Basically, you tilt the bike 90 degrees or more forward (leaning on the front wheel) and then even further back, almost upside down. This usually causes any water in the frame or stays to come out of the pivots on the stays or on the rocker arm.
Since your rear triangle is solid, it may be a different story there but hopefully this helps. Let us know if you do find any way to drain the water other than removing the BB, whether it’s this or something else….
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Just got the initial paint proofs back from Katie at Carbonda. Zooky, I appreciate you taking the plunge first. At 100 kg, I should be able to give you some idea of durability though am really just getting started with local enduro runs and tend to shy away from huge drops and jumps. I went with pastel orange. Maybe a little lighter in color than I was envisioning but I think it'll look good with some dirt on it. Will keep you posted.
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This frame looks awesome! If I were in the market for something like this it would definitely be on the top of my list!
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If these ever make it into XL I might need to pick one up. Did an enduro race this weekend on my 2018 140mm bike. I had one of the oldest, smallest bikes there at apparently one of the most technical and demanding stops in the series. I did well enough on the little bike but it sure makes me want one of these, haha.
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Im also waiting for XL frame size to be finished. Will see in upcoming month if I can retire my Ican p9 for FM1003 or maybe the FS838. For the second option, I lost the hope they will finish it until next season. Will see.
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Just got the initial paint proofs back from Katie at Carbonda. Zooky, I appreciate you taking the plunge first. At 100 kg, I should be able to give you some idea of durability though am really just getting started with local enduro runs and tend to shy away from huge drops and jumps. I went with pastel orange. Maybe a little lighter in color than I was envisioning but I think it'll look good with some dirt on it. Will keep you posted.
Looks good! Let us all know how the paint job holds up for you please.
I've been doing a few drops lately (around hip to chest height) and bike has been flawless! You shouldn't have any issues
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Basically, you tilt the bike 90 degrees or more forward (leaning on the front wheel) and then even further back, almost upside down. This usually causes any water in the frame or stays to come out of the pivots on the stays or on the rocker arm.
Since your rear triangle is solid, it may be a different story there but hopefully this helps. Let us know if you do find any way to drain the water other than removing the BB, whether it’s this or something else….
Since last post i have washed my bike a few times. I've tilted 90 deg back and forward. I did see a few drops come out but nothing major. Next wash i'll tilt more
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Just barely had light enough at the end of the day to get it out and try our local trails last night. I can only compare it with my 2017 Diamondback Release aluminum framed bike (similar to a Santa Cruz 5010 in geometry). The FM 1003 definitely did what I needed it to. It climbs at least as well as my diamondback and just smashes through EVERYTHING on the descent. I took a couple of bad lines that put me into rocks that I normally try to avoid and found that I could just ride over them with impunity. I've had more pedal strikes on this bike than with my Diamondback, but I think it's mostly been my line choices. If I can get out of work early enough this afternoon, I'll give it some more seat time. I'm pretty pleased with it and the paint looks great so far.
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Just barely had light enough at the end of the day to get it out and try our local trails last night. I can only compare it with my 2017 Diamondback Release aluminum framed bike (similar to a Santa Cruz 5010 in geometry). The FM 1003 definitely did what I needed it to. It climbs at least as well as my diamondback and just smashes through EVERYTHING on the descent. I took a couple of bad lines that put me into rocks that I normally try to avoid and found that I could just ride over them with impunity. I've had more pedal strikes on this bike than with my Diamondback, but I think it's mostly been my line choices. If I can get out of work early enough this afternoon, I'll give it some more seat time. I'm pretty pleased with it and the paint looks great so far.
Such a nice build man, tell us more about the shock linkage if you can.
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Just barely had light enough at the end of the day to get it out and try our local trails last night. I can only compare it with my 2017 Diamondback Release aluminum framed bike (similar to a Santa Cruz 5010 in geometry). The FM 1003 definitely did what I needed it to. It climbs at least as well as my diamondback and just smashes through EVERYTHING on the descent. I took a couple of bad lines that put me into rocks that I normally try to avoid and found that I could just ride over them with impunity. I've had more pedal strikes on this bike than with my Diamondback, but I think it's mostly been my line choices. If I can get out of work early enough this afternoon, I'll give it some more seat time. I'm pretty pleased with it and the paint looks great so far.
I'm jealous that your paint turned out well, I have the exact same color on my FM1002 and let me tell you, paint from Carbonda is a roll of the dice.
If pedal strikes are an issue, I would consider putting a 29 wheel on the front. Your BB is 19.05mm (0.75in) lower on 27.5s than 29s and that makes a noticeable difference.
You can swap your Zeb lowers to accommodate a bigger front wheel and start riding a mullet. That'll raise the BB 10mm or so.
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I'm jealous that your paint turned out well, I have the exact same color on my FM1002 and let me tell you, paint from Carbonda is a roll of the dice...
What was bad in your painting?
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I got out again briefly last night. I climbed out of the valley on the main paved road that I've taken on my Diamondback many times. The idea was to compare climb times and effort expended on Strava. Mind you, my legs weren't fresh and I'm pushing 2.6" tires (instead of the Diamondback's 2.35" Hans Dampfs). Despite the differences, the climb times are almost identical. The real shocker was the descent. It actually felt like I was moving much slower than normal. I was losing daylight and not pushing hard because I couldn't see well enough to make out spacing for some of the jumps, so it was kind of a lackluster run. BUT when I checked Strava, I'd PR'd all of the downhill sections. I thought it might be harder to steer in switchbacks, but it was actually pretty composed and effortless. I get the feeling that when I figure out what input it needs from me, the FM 1003 is going to be very fast. I'm still fiddling with the rear shock settings and could really just use an entire day to get to know the bike. I really like the Rockshox Superdeluxe Ultimate and was pleased that the frame takes such a modern suspension component. Speaking of, the derailleur hanger appears to be Carbonda's version of the SRAM universal derailleur hanger system--except at a fraction of the cost. It's robust, I can't complain a bit about it, and htere should be replacements readily available anywhere.
Draz: I'll try and get a picture of the rear suspension at full travel this weekend and post it for you. From my experience with the bike so far, it is a super-efficient linkage system. When I lock out the shock, it actually stays locked out and puts power to the ground. You can definitely tell you're pushing a steeper head-tube angle up hill but the suspension seems to make up for it. I may try some lighter trail tires on it at some point for a comparison--probably not this year yet though.
Casual_build: Agreed on the mullet build. I think I may actually be able to sneak a 29" wheel in the existing fork. My plan is to build up some 29" wheels this winter and see how it rides in spring. For now I'm just trying to be more mindful of my pedaling (and sharp cornering while pedaling on pavement). As for paint, I was hoping the gloss might make cleaning easier. It's only had two short rides so there's plenty of time to be let down. I should have it out again this weekend, weather permitting.
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What was bad in your painting?
Casual_build: Agreed on the mullet build. I think I may actually be able to sneak a 29" wheel in the existing fork. My plan is to build up some 29" wheels this winter and see how it rides in spring. For now I'm just trying to be more mindful of my pedaling (and sharp cornering while pedaling on pavement). As for paint, I was hoping the gloss might make cleaning easier. It's only had two short rides so there's plenty of time to be let down. I should have it out again this weekend, weather permitting.
My paint is RAL 2003 with a glossy finish. It arrived with paint damaged, the glossy coat is thin in some places to the point of feeling rough. The real problem is the color didn't fuse to the grey primer, causing the color to be super brittle, breaking off in flakes. From assembly and a few rides, my FM1002 is already missing way more paint than my two year old FM936 (which carbonda painted super well).
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Draz: I didn't have a chance to air out the suspension because we were riding most of the weekend. Here's a picture of the linkage from a couple of different angles. It works pretty well. I'm definitely getting the hang of the different geometry and am really impressed with the bike. I also ordered some 29" rims to build up later this winter.
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I'm not sure about this, but I think the linkage design could be following the Canfield Balance Formula. If so, then aside from being heavier, this would be the best climbing bike from Carbonda. Revel has a few CBF bikes. I've always wanted to try it.
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I'm not sure about this, but I think the linkage design could be following the Canfield Balance Formula. If so, then aside from being heavier, this would be the best climbing bike from Carbonda. Revel has a few CBF bikes. I've always wanted to try it.
I just saw this clip
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cjn9Ho0jhVF/
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I just saw this clip
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cjn9Ho0jhVF/
ugh, I dislike Sherpa. They are a bit predatory. A while back when they had a lot frames, they said they were looking for Ambassadors. Anyone who applied was accepted and offered the the Sherpa Massif (Carbonda FM1001) or Sherpa Everest (ICAN P9) for a "huge discount". Of course it was actually still a big mark up on the Frames. They also lie about the P9's geo. They say its 65 Degree head angle (since they are overforking), but keep the 74 degree seat angle and other measurements the same. Lazy at best, intentionally dishonest at worst.
I like this guy's video though, it is basically a FM1001 review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxZR4-44KQ4
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I'm not sure about this, but I think the linkage design could be following the Canfield Balance Formula. If so, then aside from being heavier, this would be the best climbing bike from Carbonda. Revel has a few CBF bikes. I've always wanted to try it.
Not really. CBF requires dual links (top and bottom). This is a linkage driven single pivot.
I’ve always wanted to try Revel/CBF too, but the 2.4 tire limitation on Revel frames has always been a turnoff. I’m a 2.6 guy all the way.
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It’s definitely been interesting watching Sherpa roll out their “Olympus.” At least we get to see more examples of 1003 builds in the process.
Also very interesting that they are offering a 170/170 version and a 180R/200F dual crown version (suggesting the head tube can handle that fine). Seems like the 170 wouldn’t handle as well for gravity riding but I’d be curious to try it if I had the chance. I assume the shock is just under-stroked to 62.5mm and the shorter form therefore steepens the head angle.
I have definitely thought about short stroking a 1003 but that wouldn’t really serve much purpose and putting a 170 fork on seems similarly pointless except for Sherpa to create an extra price point/“model.”
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I mean, I wouldn't necessarily trust a somewhat fly-by-night rebrander of frames to do their due diligence around ensuring this thing can handle a 200mm dual crown out front, but hey, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
From their instagram, it looks like they have three versions coming. 170/170, 180/180, and the dual crown version.
I can see liking 170/170 sometimes over 180/180 for enduro racing, depending on the terrain you're racing/bike build. Some stops of the BC enduro series were such that you really wish you had a downhill bike for the long, brutal, and technical descents, and other stops were a lot more flowy, where pumping and carrying speed through flow-tech would win the day. After all, we do see the pros sometimes selecting bikes with as short as ~140mm rear over their ~170mm options for certain stops of the world series.
On the bright side, maybe this means the 1003 will be available in more than two sizes if Sherpa orders them? Fingers crossed.
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Yeah it's not CBF, you're right. I wonder if Sherpa is actually involved in the design process? This could be like NS bikes with the FM936 front triangle.
I hope the dual crown works, this frame is 1180 USD before shipping and weighs 1 KG more than the FM1002. It's got to be beefy. Although, 200mm up front would be like a ~62.5 degree head angle. Maybe too slack?
Unless a shorter rear shock stroke chops off an undesirable end of the leverage curve, I don't know why you wouldn't just do the full stroke. The leverage curve is probably pretty linear too.
Would it be bad to run 180 in the back and 170 up front? Steeper seat angle, longer reach, about 64~ degree head angle...
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Aaah, just learned that at these larger travels, axle to crown length gets wonky. Here is some useful 29er fork length data.
This bike is spec'd at 64 degrees with 588mm axle to crown fork. No idea what fork that is.
A 170mm Zeb is 586mm Axle to crown.
A 180mm Zeb is 596mm axle to crown.
A 190mm Zeb is 606mm axle to crown
The 170mm and 180mm Lyrik forks are 5mm shorter than the equivalent travel Zebs.
The 170mm and 180mm Fox 38 forks are about 3 mm shorter than the equivalent travel Zebs.
The Fox 40 203mm dual crown fork is only 602mm axle to crown! That's only 14mm longer than spec. Around a very reasonable 63.3 Degree head angle.
So a 190mm Zeb would be larger over fork than the 203mm Fox 40 Dual crown. I had no idea!
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Haha, I was about to comment along the lines of "dual crowns are actually not that far off 180mm single crowns because of the construction of the lower crown!" but it looks like you've got it covered.
1180 USD. Yeesh. That's up there. For the money, I'd be strongly tempted to go somewhere else. For an additional $400 or so, you can get the 180/180 version of the upcoming Bird Aeris 9, and not have any question marks around "will my parts fit" or "what does this suspension design do" or "will I get a warranty replacement or a slightly discounted replacement at my cost to ship" that you get with Chinese frames.
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ugh, I dislike Sherpa. They are a bit predatory. A while back when they had a lot frames, they said they were looking for Ambassadors. Anyone who applied was accepted and offered the the Sherpa Massif (Carbonda FM1001) or Sherpa Everest (ICAN P9) for a "huge discount". Of course it was actually still a big mark up on the Frames. They also lie about the P9's geo. They say its 65 Degree head angle (since they are overforking), but keep the 74 degree seat angle and other measurements the same. Lazy at best, intentionally dishonest at worst.
I like this guy's video though, it is basically a FM1001 review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxZR4-44KQ4
There is no review there. There a POV video riding and the guy just saying this bike is nimble sweet so good. No comments on behaviour, geometry, finishes..... Just one more guy with a new bike.
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There is no review there. There a POV video riding and the guy just saying this bike is nimble sweet so good. No comments on behaviour, geometry, finishes..... Just one more guy with a new bike.
Lol Yes, I'm sorry. I think its funny.
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1180 USD. Yeesh. That's up there. For the money, I'd be strongly tempted to go somewhere else. For an additional $400 or so, you can get the 180/180 version of the upcoming Bird Aeris 9, and not have any question marks around "will my parts fit" or "what does this suspension design do" or "will I get a warranty replacement or a slightly discounted replacement at my cost to ship" that you get with Chinese frames.
That's before shipping too. Personally, I have a lot of trust in Carbonda rectifying issues, but it's a slow process, with big shipping fees. That Bird frame looks pretty tempting for sure. A lot of aluminum frames come with a rear shock at 2000 USD (before tax). Not a lot of Carbon in that price range though. In my opinion, the FM1003 is going to be a stiffer ride.
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Katie from Carbonda told me that the frame comes with a two-year warranty. Basically, the only fit issue I have had relates to using a two-piece TRP rotor on the rear. It was a little snug and the rivets actually rubbed a bit on the brake mount. As for handling, once I got used to the slacker head angle, I found that I am way faster on the FM 1003 than I ever was on my 2017 Diamondback Release. I really like this bike. If I get the 29-inch wheels together before the snow flies, I'll post an update.
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So tried to check this frame in linkage, anti-squat is very low. That is of course not exact and very theoretical. Can someone who have actually ridden this comment on how it rides and especially pedal-bob compared to some other full-suspension bike?
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So tried to check this frame in linkage, anti-squat is very low. That is of course not exact and very theoretical. Can someone who have actually ridden this comment on how it rides and especially pedal-bob compared to some other full-suspension bike?
That’s odd, maybe you weren’t accounting for the way the shock driving linkage behaves? Take a look at the Sherpa video that shows the linkage movement, it isn’t as simple as it looks when it’s just sitting there (a dual stage movement, instead of a single arc).
Last time I saw a kinematic graph for it from Carbonda, everything looked good except the anti-rise is a bit low so braking forces can interfere with suspension movement a little more than is ideal. Not a huge problem. Anti-squat looked fine, and the couple of owners who are out there so far seem to have reported great pedaling performance.
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So tried to check this frame in linkage, anti-squat is very low. That is of course not exact and very theoretical. Can someone who have actually ridden this comment on how it rides and especially pedal-bob compared to some other full-suspension bike?
The graphs are on the first post of this thread, notably the anti-squat:
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Doesn't seem that low, seems pretty good for an aggressive bike to me.
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That’s odd, maybe you weren’t accounting for the way the shock driving linkage behaves? Take a look at the Sherpa video that shows the linkage movement, it isn’t as simple as it looks when it’s just sitting there (a dual stage movement, instead of a single arc).
Last time I saw a kinematic graph for it from Carbonda, everything looked good except the anti-rise is a bit low so braking forces can interfere with suspension movement a little more than is ideal. Not a huge problem. Anti-squat looked fine, and the couple of owners who are out there so far seem to have reported great pedaling performance.
Actually I came quite close to those values, must have been lucky!
Still compared to many other bikes it is very low, at sag already under 100% in most gears. Other bikes like canyon torque, Rocky Mountain slayer, Kavenz vhp, commencal meta and similar have much higher values.
I would say anti-rise is high, maybe not significantly but still much higher then earlier mentioned bikes.
This is still only a single-pivot, even if it is linkage driven. Maybe could have had main pivot more forward like orange bikes to get higher anti-squat.
Still an interesting option even if price is same or higher then big brand aluminium frame.
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One thing I’ve wondered about is the pivot chainline on the 1003, and how much running a bigger chainring would influence this.
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One thing I’ve wondered about is the pivot chainline on the 1003, and how much running a bigger chainring would influence this.
Did some testing in linkage and anti-squat does change a lot between a 28t and a 34t chainring, 34t going from 100-25% and 28t from 140-75% in 15t on the cassette when going through the travel. But with the smaller chainring pedal-kickback might be an issue.
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Actually I came quite close to those values, must have been lucky!
Still compared to many other bikes it is very low, at sag already under 100% in most gears. Other bikes like canyon torque, Rocky Mountain slayer, Kavenz vhp, commencal meta and similar have much higher values.
I would say anti-rise is high, maybe not significantly but still much higher then earlier mentioned bikes.
This is still only a single-pivot, even if it is linkage driven. Maybe could have had main pivot more forward like orange bikes to get higher anti-squat.
Still an interesting option even if price is same or higher then big brand aluminium frame.
Could you please tell me which big brands offer alu frames at this price? i have a friend looking for something like this and all he finds is considerably higher cost :(
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Freda,
I have the frame and I think it pedals VERY well. This is my second full-suspension bike (the first being a 2017 Diamondback Release) and the two frames are night and day, with the Carbonda FM1003 being the much superior climber (and descender). I believe there is one other forum member (Zooky, I believe) who rides this frame but as I recall, he thought it climbed as well as his hardtail. I'm pretty darn happy with it. Also, someone had paint issues with their frame in the past. Mine is holding up quite nicely and the CFR707 frame is too. Cheers!
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Could you please tell me which big brands offer alu frames at this price? i have a friend looking for something like this and all he finds is considerably higher cost :(
I think the closest option is probably the propain spindrift AL? https://www.propain-bikes.com/en/product/framesets/frameset-spindrift-al-29/ At least if you're in Europe, it's more expensive in NA.
It's mentioned earlier in this thread, but the Bird Aeris 9 is an interesting option, however with the 180mm link it ends up at just under1600usd https://www.bird.bike/product/aeris-9-frameset/#configuration
I've been considering the 1003 for a while now, but the lack of a bottle cage is holding me back. It'd just be a park/lift day bike, and in that case a full dh bike might just make more sense.
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Freda,
I have the frame and I think it pedals VERY well. This is my second full-suspension bike (the first being a 2017 Diamondback Release) and the two frames are night and day, with the Carbonda FM1003 being the much superior climber (and descender). I believe there is one other forum member (Zooky, I believe) who rides this frame but as I recall, he thought it climbed as well as his hardtail. I'm pretty darn happy with it. Also, someone had paint issues with their frame in the past. Mine is holding up quite nicely and the CFR707 frame is too. Cheers!
Yes that is what I asked for and wanted to hear! Real world testing, because even if the number are interesting it is still very theoretical and cannot compare to actual riding. Thank you!
Compared to hardtails I would say any decent full-suspension climb better. Much more traction in most situations. Maybe xc competitors might have a different opinion but I am usually not in hurry!
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I think the closest option is probably the propain spindrift AL? https://www.propain-bikes.com/en/product/framesets/frameset-spindrift-al-29/ At least if you're in Europe, it's more expensive in NA.
It's mentioned earlier in this thread, but the Bird Aeris 9 is an interesting option, however with the 180mm link it ends up at just under1600usd https://www.bird.bike/product/aeris-9-frameset/#configuration
I've been considering the 1003 for a while now, but the lack of a bottle cage is holding me back. It'd just be a park/lift day bike, and in that case a full dh bike might just make more sense.
Spindrift would be a good option, also commencal, vitus, canyon, cube and probably many others. Not sure if they are all available as frame only, but many are. Personally I don’t mind aluminium frames, these are all built with heavy parts anyway.
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hello everyone! long time lurker first time poster
Thanks to the guidance in this forum I bought a Carbonda FM936 two years ago and have really enjoyed it since. It's the perfect steed for crushing New England XC Singletrack. I also have a Ripmo that I ride when things get steeper. This frame intrigued me as the Ripmo can get interesting plowing through rough stuff at the bike park or otherwise so I pulled the trigger a few weeks back.
I built this up last week and had a chance to get out and pedal it around the local trails today. It is quite a beast - definitely heavier and different to pedal than the Ripmo (is there a better pedaling platform than the DW link??) but I was pleasantly surprised at how well the FM-1003 pedals and climbs for a 180/180 frame. I used to have a 160/170 Rallon and this pedals better than that frame. I deliberately started with a 30t chainring to try and reduce pedal bob associated with the suspension design, and I think it worked well. The float X pairs really well with the frame, gives plenty of pop and play while being supportive. I will also be trying an X2 to see how that feels.
So far, I'm really happy with the design of the frame - the internal routing is way better than the FM936 and the linkage, etc. all seems very beefy and overbuilt. My only complaint is the paint job leaves something to be desired...the clear coat seems thin, especially around the cable ports, and already shows some wear. FYI it takes a 200mm rotor in the rear, which surprised me. I have to return some adapters now!
I am taking it to the bike park tomorrow and looking forward to putting it to the test.
Ignore the mismatching wheel/tyre set...waiting on a new rotor to switch the rear wheel with my conti's.
(https://i.imgur.com/rLLTTi4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/x30b7l0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6xx2yx2.jpg)
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Wow! What a nice surprise build. Looks like its ready for the bike park.
My only complaint is the paint job leaves something to be desired...the clear coat seems thin, especially around the cable ports, and already shows some wear.
My FM1002 also has a poor clear coat, but also my color isn't sticking to the primer. Consider yourself lucky! I already have tons of chips in the paint.
Thanks for the post, please give us an updated review.
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Wow! What a nice surprise build. Looks like its ready for the bike park.
My FM1002 also has a poor clear coat, but also my color isn't sticking to the primer. Consider yourself lucky! I already have tons of chips in the paint.
Did Carbonda said something about it ?
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Did Carbonda said something about it ?
Not sure what you mean? They did refund me 40$
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Damn what bike parks are open into November? New England's got a secret...
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Damn what bike parks are open into November? New England's got a secret...
Highland bike park - they're typically open through veterans day. The weather this fall has been amazing, and we are looking at 70's again this weekend. Thanks, global warming??
The bike was exactly what I was expecting - point and shoot. Where I had to be more selective of line choice to go fast through rough stuff on the Ripmo, you can just point downhill and go. Soaked up those late season braking bumps with ease.
It has a longer wheelbase and longer chainstays so of course it doesn't handle as well through tight turns and slow tech but that's to be expected.
Did half my runs with the float x and half with the x2. The float was definitely more fun, but the X2 held up better in the chunk. So far this is exactly what I expected and wanted out of this frame. We'll see how it holds up long term but for now I'll consider this another win from Carbonda.
Would be interesting to get a comparison against the Transition Spire...the Spire is a well reviewed bike that is more so in the FM-1003's category than the Ripmo.
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Yeah, my brother is in Northern Ontario and somehow he's getting largely the same weather. That's awesome highland stays open so late - I didn't think anyone was later than Whistler at Canadian thanksgiving! Ours was a late fall too but then it flipped from lovely fall (climbed to 7000 feet at the end of October and no snow) to winter in like two days.
Great to hear you're enjoying the bike. I'm going to look at something enduro-y eventually, and Carbonda is a company I'd like to be dealing with as far as direct to consumer chinese bike companies go. Too bad they love their trunnion shocks though - you'll have to keep us posted on how those hold up!
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One thing I’ve wondered about is the pivot chainline on the 1003, and how much running a bigger chainring would influence this.
I think an Ochain on this baby would be pure awesomesauce on rock gardens. 8) 8)
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Good to see more people getting into this frame ;D ;D
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Good to see more people getting into this frame ;D ;D
I’m pretty excited to get one, as much as it might be overkill for a lot of my current pedal-up trail networks…because the one mild weakness of my FM1002 is the linkage flex. It’s reasonable for a trail bike like the 1001 which it’s also used on, but starts to get more noticeable at times when attacking gravity trails at high Gs/speeds. Not so much an issue of handling as one of ride feel, but one of the things I’ve been craving with this bike is a rear end more like the tank-y aluminum linkage of my previous GT Force LTS.
The FM1003 would seem to be able to deliver that, with the solid rear triangle. And it’s so capable that I could see myself riding more park next season. It would be a very interesting day on the hill if a bunch of us New England riders with 1003s ran into each other at Highland in the spring…
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Are you saying it is the chainstays flexing? Or the shock linkage? I don't know why shock linkage would be a problem. Also what size FM1002 frame. And how big a rider are you? Does flex cause the bike to shimmy at high speeds? Or the tire to hit the sides of the stays? I am on a medium, and I don't notice abnormal flex. Bummer. Now I am going to get anal and fixate on this with my recent fm1002 build when I ride it.
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You really don’t need to. It’s nothing at all like we’re talking about with the AM831.
Firstly, I’m making a comparison to my last bike, a GT Force (LTS V1) there, which has one of the most overbuilt aluminum 4-bar linkages out there. Even that has some movement in it which I always felt was a little uneven side to side in that way almost all 4-bars are asymmetrical to accommodate the chainring and guide/bash mounts. The 1002 is much more even in the movement it has.
The 1002 uses the same linkage as the 1001, so it’s built a little bit on the lightweight side for an AM bike. The rocker arm in particular is daintier than I would’ve designed if I was engineering a 153mm bike of this caliber. When you lean the bike over hard on intense high speed/high-G trails, for someone like me at ~200lbs without gear, that’s mild but noticeable versus a giant hunk of aluminum like the Force LTS V1’s rocker arm. The Force V2 (current model, high pivot 4-bar) actually shed a ton of material from the linkage while keeping it aluminum even though the front triangles are now exclusively carbon.
Now, I was also talking about my 1002 at the end of the season with 725mi on the original bearings which have never been opened up or greased. I suspect they have at least a little rust and play in them by now, which made apparent rear end “flex” more noticeable. It was never a bad problem, or significantly affected handling though I did sometimes find myself wishing I had the money for fresh Enduro Max bearings sooner to see how much it helps.
I’ll be doing that next spring.
In conclusion, all this was as by way of comparison, both to my last bike and to what I’m considering as a second bike to go with the 1002 — the 1002 is an AM bike with a trail bike rear end and I’ve really enjoyed that in most ways but I think a 1003 will be inherently stiffer with only a single pivot and one piece, enduro-weight rear triangle. It will become my big mountain enduro & park weapon with some of the current 1002 parts like a Fox 38, while the 1002 will get new/refreshed bearings, a 36mm fork, and be my daily driver light-AM bike for local trails.
There’s no inherent problem with the 1002 of any kind, it’s just firmly an AM bike and the OEM bearings are probably not quite up to the level of punishment I dished out this year…whereas I’d like to add a really stiff enduro tank to my stable, and this time I will give the bearings a thorough examination/greasing before the build. Might even just install Enduro Max on the main pivot at least.
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I see that Sherpa appear to be selling this frame as the Olympus and some build options use a coil shock. Looking at the linkage plots in the first post I would have thought that this frame wouldn't suit a coil shock as the leverage ratio drops pretty linearly throughout the travel, wouldn't a frame designed for a coil shock have a progressively increasing leverage ratio throughout the travel? I suppose you could use a progressive spring on the coil shock, but I have no idea how well these work?
EDIT: Also I'm ~170cm tall and currently riding a medium giant with 435 mm reach and it feels ok but on the larger end (I'm generally right between small and medium frame sizes). The FM1003 geo shows reach for the small frame is 432 mm and the medium is 455 mm, which seems really long! Based on that would I be better off on the small FM1003 frame? The small looks larger in every dimension than my current medium-frame trail bike.
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I see that Sherpa appear to be selling this frame as the Olympus and some build options use a coil shock. Looking at the linkage plots in the first post I would have thought that this frame wouldn't suit a coil shock as the leverage ratio drops pretty linearly throughout the travel, wouldn't a frame designed for a coil shock have a progressively increasing leverage ratio throughout the travel?
Not at all. You can find plenty of heavy hitting frames with pretty linear leverage drops fit for running coils, including VPPs like the Santa Cruz V10/Nomad or horst links the Specialized Demo/Enduro.
And then you have frames with decreasing progressivity like the YT Capra or the Canyon Sender, perfectly fine running coils as well.
Increasing progressivity will mean diving through the mid travel and lower dynamic ride height, so definitely not only beneficial.
But as ever, it all depends on your personal preference and riding style. Numbers will only take you so far :)
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I see that Sherpa appear to be selling this frame as the Olympus and some build options use a coil shock. Looking at the linkage plots in the first post I would have thought that this frame wouldn't suit a coil shock as the leverage ratio drops pretty linearly throughout the travel, wouldn't a frame designed for a coil shock have a progressively increasing leverage ratio throughout the travel? I suppose you could use a progressive spring on the coil shock, but I have no idea how well these work?
EDIT: Also I'm ~170cm tall and currently riding a medium giant with 435 mm reach and it feels ok but on the larger end (I'm generally right between small and medium frame sizes). The FM1003 geo shows reach for the small frame is 432 mm and the medium is 455 mm, which seems really long! Based on that would I be better off on the small FM1003 frame? The small looks larger in every dimension than my current medium-frame trail bike.
Well, you get all kinds out there. People swore up and down that a coil on the gen 3 Trek Slash was brilliant but the leverage ratio of that bike really wasn't meant for one. That said, the leverage ratio is quite similar to a lot of 2018-2021 Enduroy bikes, most of which worked fine with a coil - it's nearly bang on the Instinct BC edition, for example.
Don't look at reach as the sole determining factor to bike fit. Look at (E)STA, ETT, Front center, and reach in combination to get an idea. There's a good chance your medium giant has a slacker STA than the 1003s, putting their ETT numbers pretty similar.
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:'( :'( :'(. Bit devo guys!
Had a fall today and just my luck where it happened, a rock was sticking out and has damaged the rear triangle brake calliper side just below it (see pics - sorry left pics full res to get full detail)
Is it bad (I feel like it is)? Should I be concerned?
:'( :'( :( :(
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Hit with a coin the area around and on the hit.
If the sound remains clear, not muted, ride it happily
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No, it's bad but repairable. Don't ride that until your can repair or replace. You can see the cracks beyond jus the surface abrasion
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Thanks guys! Just done a “tap test”. The sound is muted on the damaged area :'(
Any tips on DIY repairing/fixing?
Also emailing Carbonda to see how much for rear triangle
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I've never done any repair before, but I bet you will be able to repair it yourself.
It looks like a lot of people use this kit and have great results: https://predatorcycling.com/products/carbon-repair-kit
The kit is usually used to repair carbon tubes so you might need to get creative.
It looks like there are many youtube videos on carbon repair, so look for someone dealing with similar damage.
Let us know how much carbonda wants for a new rear triangle though, I am curious.
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Personally, I'd sand and seal the area with epoxy, mark the edges of the crack with a paint pen, and see what happens. If no good, I'd order a new rear triangle and attempt a proper repair.
Not, you know, that this is necessarily good/safe advice.
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https://www.cyclocarbon.com. for one
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Have order this https://carbonparts.com.au/product/carbon-kit/
Hopefully get it within the week and will give it a good go. Will report back once done.
No reply yet from Wing about new rear triangle
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Will definitely be following along with interest!
This looks like a very repairable impact since it wasn’t ridden afterwards and if that’s a real crack (rather than just a surface gouge) it doesn’t look very problematic if it can be stabilized. This is certainly a good case study in this type of surface repair because it’s a heavy duty enduro bike but also purely a superficial impact/gouge in a peripheral area and not a structural failure at a high stress zone like a tube junction or pivot point.
I do hope Wing gets back to you…with Sherpa probably taking up a significant portion of Flybike’s manufacturing capacity for the 1003 I’ve wondered about frame and parts availability. Wing said there were “a few” Large 1003s available earlier this year — September, I think — but that was before Sherpa announced the Olympus.
And weirdly enough, I don’t think they’ve posted a single picture or video of any of their ambassadors/racers actually riding one yet…
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Got a reply from Wing
rear triangle : $ 390 usd
shipping :
HKUPS : $ 125 ( 7-14 days）
guangzhou EMS : $ 60 （ 1-2 month ）
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GOOD news guys!
Sanded, applied 4 strips of carbon fibre squares (probs overkill), sanded again and spray painted
Repair has passed the "coin tapping" test :D Not the neatest job but right now not really worried (first time doing a carbon repair)
Will take it out tomorrow arvo for a thrashing
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I just had another glance at the Carbonda geometry sheet for the 1003, which lists fork A2C (value “F”) as 588mm — kind of short for a 180 fork. A 170mm Fox 38 is 584mm; other common forks capable of 180mm+ like the DVO Onyx and RS Zeb are similar.
This is steering me a little bit in the direction of trying out a 170/170 setup before deciding whether to try a 180 fork. It shouldn’t alter the geometry stated in the chart by much, and might be a little bit better for all-mountain riding with lots of big climbs in between the gravity runs.
I still haven’t ordered a 1003 yet, but I’m slowly putting the pieces of the build together and deciding what fork will replace the Fox 38 on my 1002 — thinking I might try 160mm on there for a while to differentiate it a bit from the 1003.
I have to get a couple of wheels rebuilt with different rims and decide on a shock (leaning towards coil: DHX2, DHX or Bomber CR) but most of the rest is locked in.
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General question for those who have owned the frame for some time, how does it hold up? Creaks, rattles, other issues?
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General question for those who have owned the frame for some time, how does it hold up? Creaks, rattles, other issues?
I'll chime in here - so far, so good! No odd creaks or rattles, the bike is tons of fun to ride. I kept the float x on over the x2 and have been happy so far. Planning on trying 190 on the front to see if it jacks up the ride characteristics and will report back.
Only complaint is the paint...it'll chip if you look at it wrong. Seems like their paint job quality has gone down recently so it's probably worth the extra $$ to order it raw and take it to a local shop.
I do have to caveat that I've only had the frame since the late fall, it's been to the bike park twice and I've had it out on my local trails a dozen or so times...interested to see how it holds up over the next season and if I end up reaching for the 1003 over my Ripmo like I have been over this winter.
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I stumbled onto this pinkbike listing: https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3574226/ and the company page: https://www.cachetbikes.com/product-page/downhill
Looks like a dh version of the 1003? Slightly different geometry chart, different shock size, but looks very similar otherwise. I've been looking for a dh frame lately and this would be a decent option.
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That's interesting, it appears they have the 1003 as well.
https://www.cachetbikes.com/product-page/enduro-frame
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Sent my order email to Wing, just waiting to hear back and pay…hopefully able to start my build in about a month. (My 1002 took six weeks to arrive but I ordered it during Chinese New Year in early 2022 so I’m hoping this will be a little faster.)
Any suggestions for pre-build prep, anything I should order ahead of time?
Was thinking in particular about a down tube protector…I could always just get the same Nukeproof adhesive protector I used on my 1002 but the different shape of the frame might lend itself to something bigger?
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I am also looking at this for a DH build. Anyone have experience with going to a longer shock? Maybe pushing 190 or 200mm rear travel? Also, has anyone confirmed with Carbonda if this frame will take a dual crown fork? Or more importantly if it specifically won't take one.
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Yes, it can take a dual crown fork — Sherpa has been selling this configuration, and the A2C isn’t that different than spec.
180mm is max frame travel. 205x65mm is already the longest trunnion shock length/stroke available and you do *not* want to try a trunnion-to-eyelet adapter for a bike that takes this kind of punishment: it will absolutely break, and possibly take the mounting point with it. Plus there are multiple other reasons why this wouldn’t make sense anyway given the possible length/stroke combinations for those sizes of standard eyelet shock.
The swingarm would hit the frame with any longer stroke.
You could talk to Cachet Bikes about their DH variant frame with longer shock but I’m fairly sure that isn’t available direct from the factory. And Cachet’s web site gives me the impression it may not be available from them for a while yet (listed as out of stock).
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For the 1003 owners, something I realized I wasn’t sure about and doesn’t seem to be discussed in this thread: what headset does the 1003 take? I am planning on using my own so I didn’t order the OEM one from Carbonda.
I had just assumed it took the same 1.5/1.5 headset as my 1002, but I’ve been trying to figure out where I got that idea from and the schematic drawing on Page 1 sure looks tapered, as do pictures of riders’ builds.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
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Hello! I used a cane creek 40 zs 44/56 headset.
You do have to press the cups into the frame, which is kind of scary even with the right tools...
Also keep in mind for your build the standard rear rotor diameter is 200mm - surprised me when I was planning on running a 180.
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Hello! I used a cane creek 40 zs 44/56 headset.
You do have to press the cups into the frame, which is kind of scary even with the right tools...
Also keep in mind for your build the standard rear rotor diameter is 200mm - surprised me when I was planning on running a 180.
That’s good to know, I was expecting it to be drop-in like the 1002 and most other frames I’ve owned recently! I ordered a FSA Orbit 1.5ZS (No.57) which has the flush press-in shells and 44/56 bearings. Should fit the bill.
Now I’ll know to plan for having my LBS press these in before I do the rest of my build. I have a press but would rather not take the risk of screwing it up since pressing headsets is one of the few mechanical things I haven’t done in many years, and I’ve never done it with carbon.
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I'll chime in here - so far, so good! No odd creaks or rattles, the bike is tons of fun to ride. I kept the float x on over the x2 and have been happy so far. Planning on trying 190 on the front to see if it jacks up the ride characteristics and will report back.
Only complaint is the paint...it'll chip if you look at it wrong. Seems like their paint job quality has gone down recently so it's probably worth the extra $$ to order it raw and take it to a local shop.
I do have to caveat that I've only had the frame since the late fall, it's been to the bike park twice and I've had it out on my local trails a dozen or so times...interested to see how it holds up over the next season and if I end up reaching for the 1003 over my Ripmo like I have been over this winter.
I’ll be making my own build thread soon (probably covering my latest 1002 changes in addition to the new 1003), but have definitely noticed that the paint is different on the 1003 versus the 1002. It’s more of a dark carbon-gray than matte black, with carbon texture visible through the paint which it isn’t on the 1002.
The front and rear frames made contact while I was unboxing (left side touches, right side doesn’t due to the asymmetric swingarm) and the paint immediately chipped off at that spot. I covered it up with a dab of matte black touch up paint so no big deal but it did show how fragile this semi-transparent coating is. Noticeably more so than the 1002 and that is already pretty easy to chip.
So it’s definitely not just you.
It’s almost like the 1003 came from a different designer and an entirely different production line than the 1001/1002. Bunch of small differences, like the press in headset and somewhat crude (but workable) tube in tube cable routing. Head tube ~15mm shorter in the same frame size.
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It’s almost like the 1003 came from a different designer and an entirely different production line than the 1001/1002. Bunch of small differences, like the press in headset and somewhat crude (but workable) tube in tube cable routing. Head tube ~15mm shorter in the same frame size.
Painting is a skilled profession, someone working for Carbonda is painting poorly. It is very much a luck of the draw and not frame specific. My FM1002 has the paint that easily chips too. It's like the primer and paint are not bonding very well.
Please complain to your contact at Carbonda, if no one complains, nothing will happen. I got some money back for my paint issues, just because I want them to know that this affects them financially.
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Full Carbon Alchemist: How is your build going so far with the FM1003?
I've been following this thread alot, and I'm very interested in purchasing the FM1003 or the FM1002. Currently I have an ICAN P1 trail frame from 2021 that I built up, and I'm needing more of an enduro frame that can handle days at the bike park with large jumps and a bike that still pedals efficiently since I plan on using it at my local trails which require a good amount of pedaling up to the top.
My type of riding now consists of bike park days (medium large jumps, descending small section of techy medium sized roots, berms, climbing). At my local trails, I usually do 50% pedaling up (50% descending), 3-4 ft drops, medium sized jumps, rock gardens, sections of sand and loose rocks.
I'd like this next bike purchase to be my daily driver bike. I go biking about 1x/week, but sometimes I'm able to squeeze 2x/week.
Please let me know if anyone can share their recommendation on should I buy the FM1003 bike or FM1002 bike or just any positive or negative experience so far with your FM1003.
Thank you!
Crankydad
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I'd like this next bike purchase to be my daily driver bike. I go biking about 1x/week, but sometimes I'm able to squeeze 2x/week.
Please let me know if anyone can share their recommendation on should I buy the FM1003 bike or FM1002 bike or just any positive or negative experience so far with your FM1003.
Thank you!
Crankydad
Howdy! After having the FM1003 for a while I am still very happy with the bike - it would definitely handle the features you are talking about. A couple of things to keep in mind, though - there's no water bottle mount on the FM 1003. I just leave my bottle at the bottom of the lift at the park, or use a frame bag and a soft water bottle when I'm out on the trails.
The 1003 is alot of travel for a daily driver - unless your daily rides are typically long climbs followed by long descents with big features. If your rides are a general mix - the 1002 would be a better all around option.
That being said, the 1003 is a ton of fun, and pedals well for a 180mm sled. I'm currently running it with a 190mm Zeb and using it as a pedalable park bike. Its overkill for 90% of what I do but I really enjoy taking it out.
The only issues I've had are the poor paint job, sneaky linkage hardware loosening (even with locktite...part of the pre ride ritual is torquing everything up) and missing a real water bottle.
Hope that helps!
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Howdy! After having the FM1003 for a while I am still very happy with the bike - it would definitely handle the features you are talking about. A couple of things to keep in mind, though - there's no water bottle mount on the FM 1003. I just leave my bottle at the bottom of the lift at the park, or use a frame bag and a soft water bottle when I'm out on the trails.
The 1003 is alot of travel for a daily driver - unless your daily rides are typically long climbs followed by long descents with big features. If your rides are a general mix - the 1002 would be a better all around option.
That being said, the 1003 is a ton of fun, and pedals well for a 180mm sled. I'm currently running it with a 190mm Zeb and using it as a pedalable park bike. Its overkill for 90% of what I do but I really enjoy taking it out.
The only issues I've had are the poor paint job, sneaky linkage hardware loosening (even with locktite...part of the pre ride ritual is torquing everything up) and missing a real water bottle.
Hope that helps!
Stoveham thanks so much! This helps! I feel like the 1002 is the better option for me, I do a general mix of everything including sometimes some steeper climbing. But I do enjoy taking bike to bike park and doing medium to large jumps, going down technical terrain, and taking longer descents.
Good point about no water bottle cage and about sneaky linkage hardware loosening. I will definitely keep in mind.
Thank you!
Crankydad
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Any more experience with this frame? I see that ICAN is making a version called the X17. Not sure on pricing. Anyone have this set up as a dual crown bike?
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Where can I order the FM 1003/ ICAN X17 frame? :o
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Any more experience with this frame? I see that ICAN is making a version called the X17. Not sure on pricing. Anyone have this set up as a dual crown bike?
A few good reviews so far. Nothing negative on the Carbonda version. No one has dual-crowned on this forum but it fits according to Carbonda. Zero info about the ICAN frame besides catalog and web page.
Where can I order the FM 1003/ ICAN X17 frame? :o
Carbonda is selling it, email them here info@carbonda.com
Post your build and review here
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Hey All,
Have had the frame now for about 18-19 months. I pulled out my rear brake hose because I want to change brake set.
As a test, I tried to re-run a outer housing cable back to the rear, but it seems like the "curve/turn" part just before the BB is worn out/broken/gone. The cable now just pops out straight in the BB area :(
Anyone else notice this?
Ive half given up trying to get a cable through and probably will externally route the new rear brake hose.
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Hey zooky,
could you keep us updated.
Did it work, are you going to claim warranty (does it even work, like do they respond and so on) or how are you going to do it????
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Hey All,
Have had the frame now for about 18-19 months. I pulled out my rear brake hose because I want to change brake set.
As a test, I tried to re-run a outer housing cable back to the rear, but it seems like the "curve/turn" part just before the BB is worn out/broken/gone. The cable now just pops out straight in the BB area :(
Anyone else notice this?
Ive half given up trying to get a cable through and probably will externally route the new rear brake hose.
I haven’t touched my cable routing since the initial build, but having seen those routing tubes (which sure look like rolled paper soaked in a little glue), I’m not super surprised one broke under the kinds of riding this frame is meant for.
Definitely something to keep an eye on. If I ever change the brakes on mine, I’d try to use the previous hose to route the new one (or just attach new lever and caliper to existing hose, if that’s an option but it often isn’t). Normally you can just tape the new hose to the front end of the old one and pull it through, but in this case you’d probably want something more robust to hold the two together as it passed through the missing section.
If the tube broke off entirely, I’d expect to find it rattling around inside the frame….
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Hey zooky,
could you keep us updated.
Did it work, are you going to claim warranty (does it even work, like do they respond and so on) or how are you going to do it????
Carbonda is very responsive and the customer service people are easy to work with. I’ve never heard of them ghosting anyone or treating them poorly.
That said, I’m not completely sure what their response to this would be.
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Hey guys,
So bit of an update with my frame. Whilst the inner tube was an issue, i magically got it routed somehow.
After i got the cable routed, i was doing more maintenance (recovering from a broken collar bone) noticed a 5-6cm long crack just under the BB in the center round part.
Sent off an email with a few images, Wing replied advising she'll send it off to their technical department. Came back to me 1 week later saying they'll replace the front triangle under warranty ;D ;D ;D ;D
VERY happy with service! Definitely would buy again from them
This was just before the Xmas time. Received the frame around 8-10 days later.
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That's good to hear.
Did somebody test this on really rough trails or at a bike park?
How was the noise? Like chainslap and internal cables that are rattling (is it loose or has it shrouding)
Or some other unexpected stuff, like bad bearings or something.
I would appreciate an answer.
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I had no problems with noise at bike parks except sometimes for harsh chain slap on braking bumps, which I assume will be fixed now that I’m installing a VHS Tape chainstay protector like the one on my FM1002.
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Yep I’ve applied an old tube top and bottom :D
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And how is it now after the chainstay protector?
Btw How did you guys route your cables?
Was it difficult or does it have cable guides (cable shrouding) inside the Frame.
Helps a lot to keep the bike quite.
On an unrealated note could you post a few pictures about your builds, havent seen that many.
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Does anyone have the XL frame? I am looking at the Ican x17 as the price is about $300 less than the carbonda. also curious on the weight of the large or XL frame if anyone has it.
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It’s weird that ICAN would be able to sell a Flybike frame for less than Flybike’s own consumer direct operation (Carbonda). One has to wonder if it’s actually the same construction or just the same mold, potentially with a different mix of carbon or layup process. Is that price comparison for both frames shipped?
ICAN has two web sites and only one of them (not the one people normally buy from) lists the X17. I wonder if that has implications for availability at that price, like it’s only for wholesale customers or something.
I haven’t weighed my size large FM1003 frame separately but it can’t be all that much heavier than the 3300g claimed for a medium.
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It’s weird that ICAN would be able to sell a Flybike frame for less than Flybike’s own consumer direct operation (Carbonda). One has to wonder if it’s actually the same construction or just the same mold, potentially with a different mix of carbon or layup process. Is that price comparison for both frames shipped?
ICAN has two web sites and only one of them (not the one people normally buy from) lists the X17. I wonder if that has implications for availability at that price, like it’s only for wholesale customers or something.
I haven’t weighed my size large FM1003 frame separately but it can’t be all that much heavier than the 3300g claimed for a medium.
Thank you for the info on the weight. I was on their non-store site and emailed them directly for the price. Carbonda has always been on the expensive side. Having purchased many frames from Dengfu and light carbon, all have been well under what similar frames were from carbonda. If ICAN has similar quality to either of these two I will be happy
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I tried to start an inquiry (Icanbikes.com, where the X17 is), but it didn't work for me. It's loading and loading and loading...So I sent an email to ICAN about the frame. Let's see what they say.
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Well I have placed the order for the ICAN X17. I will be the guinea pig for this frame on here. I went with a matte white paint job. I was given this as a design view. although this was gloss, hopefully they remember w hen it comes time to paint. I will try and post some build photos as I go. please ask any questions you have.
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Matte white will be about the most difficult color to keep looking good. Should look bring, though, when it is :-)
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How Long will it take for the arrival of the frame?
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How Long will it take for the arrival of the frame?
I went with the xl as I like a longer bike. I was told it should ship end of march so hopefully any day now I will get the tracking details.
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Matte white will be about the most difficult color to keep looking good. Should look bring, though, when it is :-)
Yeah this will be a bike park only bike so I just have to spiff it up once and while. I am also hoping that matte frame protection film will help with some of the cleaning process
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I’m looking forward to seeing how your build comes out. With the right accents, white can look amazing.
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Suspension is in and looks good. went with SR Suntour Durolux 38 and Voro Coil
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currently have the Cane creek valt coil installed. also have a DVO linear spring as well.
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The blank page bug seems to be back…page 12 of this thread won’t load for me currently. I just get a blank white page with nothing on it (not even the forum page layout or a single character of text).
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Uhhhhh
Uhhhh
Uhhhh
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Till page 13
13
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Till page 13
13
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Why does it happen
:-\
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Does anybody have experience with the bin Store of ICan?
:'(
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13
To
The
Moon
13
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Q
.
..
M
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Broooo how Long Till page 13
For anybody wondering whats going in page 12 does not load
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Do you guys think the frame ist stong enough Line the Brand Ines ( quality control and etc)
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When page 13
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G
F
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There we go…we’re on page 13 now.
FYI for anyone who tried to post on page 12: it got hit by the blank page bug and doesn’t load. Repost here.
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Hey did somebody try a coil shock and if yes how does it hold up
bike feeling, bottom out resistance and so on.
if you have some stuff to add please feel free to do so
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I have a coil shock ready for when my frame gets here. should be a few more weeks and then i can tell you what i think.
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always forget how heavy a coil shock is.
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FYI, the frame from ICAN arrived today.
It came with a headset and rear axle.
Shipping took 7 days
I will have to order parts.
Does somebody know what I should check on the frame?
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Ah I forgot to Mention the size M ist 3300g
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FYI, the frame from ICAN arrived today.
It came with a headset and rear axle.
Shipping took 7 days
I will have to order parts.
Does somebody know what I should check on the frame?
Dang that was so fast. Please post some pics. When you get a chance. And thank you for posting the weight. As for what to check, I like to make sure there are no obvious issues. I like to go through and loosen and then re-torque all the suspension bolts. I will also grease anything that pivots. Usually find the frames are pretty dry when it comes to grease
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In the head tupe of the frame ist a Sticker wich says:
FM1266
And some other Stuff with a qr Code
Will scan it after work
I bought the frame from ICAN
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Sweet. Maybe Ican is just selling the flybike/carbonda frame.
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QR code is just a random number with letters.
It is probably the frame article number.
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I asked Wing from Carbonda if they have something more downhill orientated.
And look what I got.
(see attachment)
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is that frame available? OMG i think i am in love
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The 1286 has been sold by a couple of small companies, mostly in Europe I think, almost as long as the 1003/1266 has been out. This is the first I’ve heard about Carbonda offering single frames to the general public but maybe nobody’s asked in a long time?
My guess is that it handles pretty similarly to the 1003…I wonder how the kinematic graphs compare. For me at 205-215lbs I need an air shock at close to max pressure for the 1003 and I wonder if I’d be happy with a coil shock for supportive park riding/jumps on the 1286 or not.
Would love to build one up someday if I start riding more park, but the 1003 is already plenty of bike for me (if not overkill) on 99% of New England stuff that I actually want to ride — even park.
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The 1286 has been sold by a couple of small companies, mostly in Europe I think, almost as long as the 1003/1266 has been out. This is the first I’ve heard about Carbonda offering single frames to the general public but maybe nobody’s asked in a long time?
My guess is that it handles pretty similarly to the 1003…I wonder how the kinematic graphs compare. For me at 205-215lbs I need an air shock at close to max pressure for the 1003 and I wonder if I’d be happy with a coil shock for supportive park riding/jumps on the 1286 or not.
Would love to build one up someday if I start riding more park, but the 1003 is already plenty of bike for me (if not overkill) on 99% of New England stuff that I actually want to ride — even park.
You said some European companies sell the FM1286
Do you know witch one?
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My frame has shipped. here is the pic they sent me of it.
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Frame arrived and I have it built up. frame weight for those that care was 3600g. the build was by far the simplest I have ever done. the ICAN frame has internal guide tubes for the cable routing so I just had to push it in one end and it popped out the other. even the dropper cable routing is tubes so no messing around with the cable and the foam sleeve junk. only thing left is the shock mount. the shock came with a 22mm bushing so i had to order the 8x15mm bushing from Offset. total build weight is 16.1 kg.
Forks: SR Suntour Durolux 38 180mm
Shock: SR Suntour Voro with Cane Creek Valt progressive coil
Drive Train: XT M8100 Group set
Brakes: XT M8120
Rotors: Shimano MT800 203/203mm
Wheels: Dt Swiss EX 511/ MT900 hubs
Stem: PRO Tharsis CNC 55mm
Seat Post Clamp: PRO
Grips: Wolftooth Fat Paw Carve
Bar: PRO Tharsis 3Five 20mm rise
Pedals: XT M8100
Dropper: Crank Brothers Highline 150mm
Tires: F Schwalbe Tacky Chan 2.4/ R Schwalbe Big Betty 2.4
Valve: Amazon specials
Saddle: PRO Stealth Offroad
Couple more things like bar end plugs and new rim decals will finish the bike off completely. I am having issues with pictured but once I get that sorted I will get them uploaded.
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Here it is minus the shock. hopefully the rim decals come in soon so i can get rid of that red on there.
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Upper headset bearing