Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: turboenterprise on November 29, 2014, 02:53:44 PM
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So the itch to have a full suspension and a back up bike for race season is getting me. I am in the initial stages to see how much this will $$ the wallet will take a hit.
Trying to figure out what I missed.
- Do I need bushings for the pivot joints?
- I think I am going 120mm this time to prevent pedal strikes and a little extra room
- Anybody familiar with the Xloc Full Sprint system? Locks out both front and rear at the sametime
- Can't decide if the DTSwiss hubs are worth the extra money. The Novatecs I have now are working just fine
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fRSY2QEIrz8/VHovvyvi2aI/AAAAAAAANLk/8YQ9Qyfdefo/w491-h588-no/FSBuild.jpg)
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Pivots come with the frame but you most likely will need the shock mounting bushings that are the correct size for the frame. RWB has needle bearings you could also choose but are much more expensive.
Nothing wrong with going up to 120mm travel front fork, specs say the rear travel is 110mm.
Don't have XLoc but I do recommend getting remote lockouts on the suspension, my Fox fork & shock both have three positions (CTD) and the Scott dual lock lever I installed works really well,
DT Swiss makes nice hubs, 350's are a better value than the 240's but if you want the best it always costs more. Bitex 401 hubs are also a good choice that I went with on my carbon wheels, but if I had it to do again I'd go with DT Swiss.
I think my XX1 build was right around $3400 so it looks like you are on the right track.
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These RWC shock needle bearings sound interesting. I'll have to do some research to see which one is needed as they have only factory bikes listed. Did you need a tool to install the bearings? Stock or these RWC?
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+1 on DT350, if XMI offers them they are best bung for the buck.
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A friend and lurker on here that I ride with just finished his IP-036 and we ride together for the first time this past week. It turned out really nicely. I'm impressed with the frame for sure. I'm really thinking of building one next year as well. I was following him for a bit and was reminded just how nice a FS bike is at holding the trail. His rear tire maintained contact over bumps much more than my hardtail seems to. I didn't notice very much pedal bob on his bike either.
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V-that is what is making me want to get one as well. Some of the guys I race with ride FS and I try to keep up and I just watch the back tire carve through the trails. Catching up on a downhill, forget about it.
My build is looking like its going to be around 4k if I do it the way I want. I need to figure out how to get this paint scheme on a FS. Anyone have ideas on how to get this detail on the FS so Peter can get it painted. Photoshop?
Lastly, I am reading more about rear shock being medium tune or high tune. The monarch xx might is medium tune? Not sure what to think about that. More research needed.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-C5wL9kWA-Tk/VHt18osEwoI/AAAAAAAANME/M1sBH1gpjdk/w459-h332-no/Painted056example3.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-isk9-b6G698/VHt18nKOyfI/AAAAAAAANMw/Yj2kmtX9wpw/w459-h344-no/PaintedExample6.jpg)
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For those comparing Frame Sizes - I ride a 15.5 in the IP057 and trying to figure out if the same size will work in a FS. Looks like 25cm difference in Top tube length in the same size.
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Regardless of the difference in top tube length, I'd say go with a similar sized IP-036 as you did with the IP-057, worked fine for me.
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Build list is finished. Parts are ordered...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LtaRNX6TL8IwC5bzp5FkyeG18YKNnZK5j40yWfohxPw/pubhtml
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Build list is finished. Parts are ordered...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LtaRNX6TL8IwC5bzp5FkyeG18YKNnZK5j40yWfohxPw/pubhtml
Looks good. I like your component choices, I almost went with the WTB Laser saddle but ended up with a Sette Italia as it was a closeout deal on eBay. Although the WTB is probably a better saddle for what I like.
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I just got my Ip036 today and it looks good but I noticed something and I was wondering if everyon else had these two notches on both sides of the back (arms). Not sure what they are called.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LvQjxLxiSJQ/VLFkK8HUxEI/AAAAAAAANOU/wNZtvEoJELc/w957-h718-no/2015-01-10%2B11.33.40.jpg)
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Nope, not on mine.
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Nope, not on mine.
Here is the other side. I asked Peter what he thinks, I am not too concerned about it but would like to know if it is intentional or a defect in the mold.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jngO1O8ByOBTF-fAB2tMCASPgC78k_SGIsEYqa59LpI=w249-h187-p-no)
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I think these are small drain holes.
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That would make sense.. I need to get a flashlight and look at them closer. EDIT: looked at them closer, they are on the top back bars and on the side not bottom. They aren't through the carbon all the way and aren't perfectly circle. Its just strange they are exactly same spot on both sides.
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(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/LiFcyclUWesRy5qjheUuEgXkco3tsUxue7Q3TKNeJMI=w140-h187-p-no)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VGLHCpuKMzdgpyimZKhWyrDkpYObL3XO4PDonaLRkiI=w140-h187-p-no)
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I take back my previous post, I believe my frame does have small holes like you show. Typically they are for drainage.
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Used a digital caliper to figure out what RWC Shock eye Needle bearing kit I needed. I measured one side (closest to the seat post) at~22.7mm and the other side at ~22.2mm. So I am going to order 2 NBKRWC2220 and not sure what shim kit yet. The 6mm or 8mm? I need to measure a bolt to figure that out. edit: its 8mm
Pics from another thread on mtbr showing an example of the (closest to the seat post) side. Measured at 22.7mm
(http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/29er-bikes/846848d1384449790t-my-ip-036-carbon-build-img_7786.jpg)
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Completed Pics. I need to shorten the cables. Full Xloc Sprint was a bit tricky as I got some wrong parts. The rear brake I ran on the bottom of the frame but I noticed others ran theirs through the frame which I think is the front derailleur hole.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ys0owIVzzt4/VNeoWKKWeGI/AAAAAAAANlw/5qcR5Qy3fG8/w900-h675-no/IMG_20150208_121725.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HSqKNNljJqA/VNeob3AOlEI/AAAAAAAANl8/nQ_eFzvZwtQ/w900-h675-no/IMG_20150208_121733.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MgafHGOJ4as/VNeopcpryCI/AAAAAAAANmg/mKwwqtmwJkM/w900-h675-no/IMG_20150208_121820.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n-ZlkCXK0Mg/VNeogKfoHTI/AAAAAAAANmI/GRnh8ZUCJjk/w900-h675-no/IMG_20150208_121741.jpg)
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Used a digital caliper to figure out what RWC Shock eye Needle bearing kit I needed. I measured one side (closest to the seat post) at~22.7mm and the other side at ~22.2mm. So I am going to order 2 NBKRWC2220 and not sure what shim kit yet. The 6mm or 8mm? I need to measure a bolt to figure that out. edit: its 8mm
Pics from another thread on mtbr showing an example of the (closest to the seat post) side. Measured at 22.7mm
If I remember, my shock mounting may also be 22.7/22.2, if there are three frames with those mounting dims, then I would say it is probably very consistent from frame to frame. I didn't do the RWC bearings although I gave it some serious thought. Instead I just installed the correctly sized FOX bushings which are a Teflon/Delrin material that seems to be very low friction. Although the RWC needle bearing would be lowest friction overall.
Completed Pics. I need to shorten the cables. Full Xloc Sprint was a bit tricky as I got some wrong parts. The rear brake I ran on the bottom of the frame but I noticed others ran theirs through the frame which I think is the front derailleur hole.
Given I didn't have a front derailleur, I ran the brake cable internal, just thought it would be cleaner that way and with no cables on the down tube, they don't get in the way of my bike rack.
Shorten your cables, and when you are comfortable with it, trim your steer tube. Then your bike will be fully finished. Maybe add some of those clear vinyl letters on that matte black paint :) for some accents.
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Instead I just installed the correctly sized FOX bushings which are a Teflon/Delrin material that seems to be very low friction. Although the RWC needle bearing would be lowest friction overall.
Bike shop sized and put my bushings in, but I'll bet they're the same as Carbon dude's. Would love to see a comparison of stock bolt/bushing with the RWC bearings if there was a way to quantify the friction.
Given I didn't have a front derailleur, I ran the brake cable internal, just thought it would be cleaner that way and with no cables on the down tube, they don't get in the way of my bike rack.
Tried external too, just to start with. But then ran internal, much cleaner. Trimmed the cable while I was at it, get syringe and shimano funnel too (for shimano brakes) if you do, with those tools, its easy.
Maybe add some of those clear vinyl letters on that matte black paint :) for some accents.
anyone know where these letters could be ordered online?
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I have a question that I am trying to figure out between the two builds I have done. The ip057 I believe had eyelets that kept the brake lines and derailleur lines in place as they fed through the holes of the frame. This made put them permanently in place. The Ip036 didn't have eyelets to hold the cables in place so they are just floating in the frame holes. What am I missing? I don't remember this on the Ip057.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-Bicycle-Bike-Plastic-Brake-Cable-Housing-Ferrule-End-Caps-/151368179508 .. I think they are just these type of plastic pieces. I can't remember if the bare cables were ran in the frame or with the plastic sleeve inserts.
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The Ferrule is only used on the shifter cable(s) where you are not running a cable housing. They are not used with hydraulic brake lines. On my IP-056 I ran bare cable through the frame for the r/d, on the IP-036 the hole in the frame was large enough (barely) to run a full housing through the frame for the r/d so no ferrules were used at all on the FS bike.
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Awesome looking ride, turbo.. I'm interested in what you think of the Ardent race tyre. I'm currently trying to decide between a set of them and the Ikon 2.35s. Also, after you have a decent amount of saddle time, would love to hear your impression of the rear suspension performance.
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Also, after you have a decent amount of saddle time, would love to hear your impression of the rear suspension performance.
I second this. So, I guess you're the second member to build both a chiner hardtail and chiner full suspension. Oh, the envy I feel :( ;D Now you and CD just need to add a fatty to complete the chiner collection.
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I really like the rear suspension performance on my IP-036 with the Fox CTD BV shock and twin-loc remote. I can select full lock, partial lock, or full open on the fly. If I didn't have the remote, I would most likely just leave the shock in the partial lock (trail setting) as that setting provides enough travel for fast bumpy down hill runs but is still stiff enough not to be too active when pedaling uphill.
So I think much of the rear suspension performance is dependent on the shock design/tuning. For me, I like a stiff rear shock for my XC/trail riding. Some people may like a more plush setup in which a different shock setup is better for them.
turbo, as you get some miles on your XX1 setup, please keep us updated as to if you have any problems. I was just reading that SRAM released a Type 2.1 clutch system late last year in all of their rear derailleurs. There have been lots of complaints about the r/d creaking, possibly SRAM addressed this with a minor update. Please check and let me know if yours is a Type 2 or Type 2.1.
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I have entire season under the belt with the IP-057 and I really like the pedal to power output. Every pedal is instant acceleration with the hardtail. I will tell you though on 15+ mile rides the hard tail starts to wear me down on anything technical.
I only have two rides on the 036 and I find myself locking out the front and rear with the xloc full sprint pretty regularly. I am going through all 120mm of travel up front and in the rear shock at the respective weight to air ratios. I am not sure what to think about this yet or if its ok or if I need to up the air. I definitely feel more in control of the bike with the FS and it feels faster in downhills. The smoothness of riding over technical terrain is very easy.
The only problem I have had with the derailleur is just stretch of the cables and trying to get it to shift back in the top gear. I can absolutely tell the difference in the crispness of shifting between the new bike and old though.
How do I determine whether it is 2.0 or 2.1?
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My Fox shock can go up to 250psi according to the tech. I think I have 180psi in it and it rides very nice, I don't go through 100% of the travel at that pressure. Your shock may need more air, particularly if you like a stiffer ride.
I've timed myself on my IP-057 & IP-036, the FS is faster for me on the same trail loop.
As for the derailleur, my XX1 setup shifts just as well on both bikes, never had any cable stretch issues. I also don't have much of a service loop near the bottom bracket.
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So after a trip to the bike store after I couldn't figure out why the Ip057 frame had inserts for the brakeline etc and the ip036 didn't, I am back to the drawing board. I need to find frame inserts for the running of the cables. I'd email Peter but I think he changed jobs.
So anyone has reference...
The inserts keep the brake line from moving and hold them in place and then you can place a bare wire inside.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/ycpa_SzroDkWt_y5W1NWCzCVwUOuwiTqPuv0Rs-3q94=w1311-h446-no)
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Neither my IP-057 or my IP-036 have inserts (or end caps) where the cables enter or exit. I suppose the caps do finish the openings a bit nicer but they are not necessary if the frame isn't designed for them.
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I'd email Peter but I think he changed jobs.
Not to derail your build thread.. but huh? No more Peter? He is the contact that most use.
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Not to derail your build thread.. but huh? No more Peter? He is the contact that most use.
Makes sense. I'm guessing this is him under a new forum user name:
(http://i.imgur.com/xw5BoBc.png)
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I'd email Peter but I think he changed jobs.
Not to derail your build thread.. but huh? No more Peter? He is the contact that most use.
Peter left xmiplay and started a new company. The new company isn't totally ready yet, but he's working on it.
I don't know if he still handles the last orders for xmiplay, but you can contact him on his new email/skype:
Email: petercycles@foxmail.com
Skype: peterxu1206
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^^ Hmm, very interesting. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
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Yeah, he replied to my email asking him about this on his new email.
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Turbo - this is what it looks like you need/talking about:
http://www.torontocycles.com/images/kcnc_housing_ends_black.jpg
These are the ones I used...I just assumed they were needed, they let the cable seat better in the frame and they finish the cable nicely
The frame seems to be built for them as the hole is sized for them vs. bare cable which is 'loose/wobbly'
I looked at a bike store - they had plastic ones...I wanted metal.
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Turbo - this is what it looks like you need/talking about:
http://www.torontocycles.com/images/kcnc_housing_ends_black.jpg
These are the ones I used...I just assumed they were needed, they let the cable seat better in the frame and they finish the cable nicely
The frame seems to be built for them as the hole is sized for them vs. bare cable which is 'loose/wobbly'
I looked at a bike store - they had plastic ones...I wanted metal.
These are what I used as well.
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awesome. thank you guys. For those looking for them - 4mm is what was referenced above
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Update: I was trying to figure out why I was getting so much grinding in the gears. I took a part the bottom bracket. Replaced the chain and nothing. Figured it out, it was the front chain ring. XX1 Chain Rings only lasted around 1500 miles I suspect.
I prefer my Ip-036 on most everything I ride around here. I still race with both of them but unless it smooth singletrack I am on the FS.
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There must be something going on here with the XX1 chain rings. I've seen a few people with experiences like yours (grinding from a work out chain ring) and most of them are in the 1000-2000 mile range. However, my XX1 ring has probably 3000-4000 miles (I'm riding 90+ miles a week on the thing) on it at this point and it's just fine. I wonder if they have bad batches or made a material change on the fly?
Maybe its a terrain or maintenance thing? I clean my drivetrain completely at least once a month and oil it before every ride. What is your schedule like?
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Wow. That is great! Mine didn't last half that. I replaced it and we are back to normal. I have two bikes with the same setup so it's easy to notice differences. I have also noticed some wearing on the cassette. I have a spare wheel setup so I just switched it.
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SRAM replaced my XX1 ring under warranty. The story I got was they made the chain from material that was too hard, and the chainring wore instead of the chain. They sent me a new chain and ring, everything was fine after that. Rather than replacing the chain periodically, I think I will just plan on replacing the chain, the ring, and possibly the cassette all at once, after they are totally worn out.