I'm still waiting for the frame to arrive.  Its somewhere between the container ship and UPS depot somewhere in Canada's Pacific NorthWest. 

It looks like quite a few of you have never ordered a Chinese carbon frame before, let alone in the middle of a global pandemic.  There's not as much info as buying a frame from the US or UK, etc.  You largely have to base your purchase on other users' reviews.  Or in this case, since its a new frame, largely based on the manufacturers previous track record.

I urge you guys to look up Chinese Carbon Frame Manufacturing on youtube.  Theres a good video showing how road frames are built.  I dont want to post a direct link since it showcases a competitor to Haideli, but needless to say, an awful lot of design and development work goes into creating these molds and frames.  Its not something that just happens in a couple of weeks.  Once a prototype has been built (I assume we are at this stage) then tooling for mass production begins.  Enormously heavy blocks of metal need to be milled out to perfect specs to create the molds.  Templates for the hundreds of shapes and lengths of carbon fiber material have to be created and cataloged so the same pieces can be cut over and over again.  Air bladders need to be produced for the various sections.  All those hundreds of carbon fiber strips need to be assembled around the air bladder, put in the mold, and that needs to go in the kiln, baked, and then cooled just to produce the sub components.  Then the sub pieces need to be assembled.  Rear triangle, front triangle, bottom bracket section, etc.  Then those pieces need to be epoxied together.  Then finally the frames need to be filled, surfaced and painted.  Hopefully some testing is done somewhere along the line too.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot that goes into it.  The virus has set factories back considerably, and a 55 order group purchase is probably the factory's smallest order.  They are likely producing hundreds or even thousands of frames for bike companies that are clamoring to get more inventory after selling out in the US.  The virus has caused a huge back log, and work is further hindered by protective measures to keep workers safe, and to keep the virus from re-surging.  Development of this new frame likely has to be juggled and fit in between keeping the big customers happy.  Unfortunately all this is par for the course, and is the price you pay for getting a frame for one sixth what you might usually spend on a name brand.

Have patience.  Once tooling is completed, I'm sure we will get some additional detailed photos, and all the final specs / measurements / cable routing details, etc.

It was both "on sale" at DH Gate, and I had a $30 off 300 coupon, so I got it for 600 shipped if I recall.

Ill be sure to take pics and weight before I build it up.  They estimate 30 days transit time. 

I'm also going to try the SC Hightower clone via the group purchase from Haideli.  The price is just too good to pass up.  Ill probably pick a frame to keep and sell the one I dont like.  The hightower looks a little too new-school geo for me, but who knows, maybe Ill love it.  Either way, that one seems to still be in the prototype stage.

Makes perfect sense and I couldn't agree more.   You want enough people to cover if anyone drops out, but you dont want it to get unmanageable.  And of course, you want to see what the product is before you buy it.  I'm sure Eddy will understand your reasoning.

For what its worth, I'm certain there wont be a glaring issue like the shock hole in the final product.  They might have intended to cut open the pre-production mockup frame to see what dimensions are needed for the pass-through.  Thats my guess anyway. 

Pretty sure you can get any pantone color you want.  I'm sure they can do white.

I'm under the assumption that there is still an additional charge for any paint, is that correct?  Or are they offering paint at the same price as UD matte?

I'd be willing to receive and reship frames stateside if it would help grease the wheels, and assuming people would want to trust me with that. At least they know they can find me here if I were to pull something shady. Not sure if that's all that reassuring to people or not.

Thanks for all you've offered to do to try to get this to happen.  Its greatly appreciated.

I think we'll have to weigh the cost of drop shipping from china direct to the customer vs. bulk shipping to a US location, then UPS shipping state-side.  I know china post is still very heavily subsidized, and may be pretty aggressively priced.   Not sure where you're located, but I did a sample UPS calculation for a 48x24x12 box from NY to CA, and ground shipping was only $32 to ship cross country.  I figured it would be much more.  Maybe I didn't calculate it correctly.  Doesn't seem like a tough number to hit in terms of bulk savings.  The bigger issue will be how to handle duty tax.  Any shipment over $800 US will be subject to duty tax, and most likely a brokerage fee from whoever does the import clearing.  A quick google search shows that Chinese made bicycle parts are subject to a 25% tariff on top of the pre-existing 11% tax.  So now we need to cover 36% + $30 to make the bulk shipment make any sense.  Individual shipments, assuming the frame is under 800 USD, would be exempt from any import duty or tax (De Minimis Value: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/national-media-release/de-minimis-value-increases-800)

But anyway, once we know the final number, maybe Eddy can give us separate quotes for drop shipped direct to customer, as well as bulk shipped to one location so we can compare the options?

TL;DR: I'm not a shill.  I'm here to help.  I love you all.  Or, for the less literate, more mathematically inclined: me = friend

Hey, all! It looks like you're all enjoying this list, but maybe have a few questions, so I thought I would take some time to answer both barrels of  fan mail.

Our first questions comes from sclyde2, sclyde1's younger, less popular, more easily startled, half-brother:

Q: "Why have you done this to me?"
A: Well, sir, I like to think of this list as something that has been done for you, not to you. Any incursion into your apparently massive personal space has been inadvertent. The "why" is rather simple; someone went to the trouble of making a list of hardtail frames, and that post went and got itself an agent, a publicist, a line of collectable action figures, and eventually, stickied. I thought, perhaps foolishly, that a similar list of full suspension frames would be useful to people.

Q: "Are you a slut-filled sock puppet for the Taiwanese carbon mafia?"
A:  That's a big negative, buddy.  My nationality is the United States.  I don't get paid to post on the Internet, or for anything.  I live and work near the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Los Angeles, where I am a volunteer slash trespasser.  In my spare time I play bass in a spoon band. We're called Ain't Got No Tine for This. You may have heard some of our hits: (I wanna) Put My Soup in You, Slurp it Up, or All Innuendo Aside Let's Have Sex (in your mouth). When I'm not volunteering, trespassing,  or slappin' spoons, I make posts in online mountain biking forums.

Q: "While sifting through the incomprehensible mess of data from the emerging factory-to-consumer bicycle market you overlooked some, what I consider to be obvious, models.  Do you apologize?"
A: No, no apology intended, m'lord.  In fact, I had anticipated this very scenario and thusly diagrammed and constructed a series of action plans to address the dilemma.  The first 30 of these plans were all variations on a theme of farting into mostly empty peanut butter jars and then mailing them to dignitaries, statesmen, and Mayor McCheeses of online mountain biking communities, but in a movie-like moment of inspiration, the kind that spirits the protagonist from the first act to the second act on a wave of fist pumps, I decided I would just edit the original post to include any info I missed on the first pass.  It was beautiful in its simplicity, but left me wondering what I'm going to do with all these peanut butter jars.

Q: "Can we talk more about the beautiful and luxurious FM936, with its many available sizes and options if I provide an affiliate link and a reminder that if you use the promo code #SelfRighteousIndignance you'll receive a ten percent discount on your first purchase?"
A: Looks like the sock puppet is on the other hand, your lordship.  How does it smell?

Q:" I want there to be more companies selling carbon bike frames, and I want their names on your so-called list last week. Do you apologize? "
A: Again, no apology has been intended. The carbon frame listings on AliExpress.com are dominated by a few vendors who flood the database with hundreds if not thousands of duplicate listings for the same SKUs. Should they be ashamed of themselves, bed wetters that they are? Yes. Should they be given a good scolding, a nicotine stained finger wagged in their face, and sent to bed without supper? Yes. Should their listings be trimmed to more accurately reflect the products they offer and make the site more usable for consumers? Again, yes, but neither I nor my so-called list are responsible for making those things happen. Furthermore, how many companies are actually making carbon bike frames?  My hunch is that the number is around 10, possibly fewer .  It's possible that if the list doesn't die before it learns to walk it might learn more about the carbon bike market and include more vendors. It's still very young at the moment, but it's been smoking a lot more than you'd expect,  it's been spiking it's milk with rocket fuel, and yesterday it came home with a tattoo that says "Live fast! Die young! Kill kill kill!" and there's a picture of a dragon holding a schematic for a doomsday device.

Q(implied): "Do you have any idea who my dad is?  You think I won't get you banned permanently if you tick me off?  I've eaten better men than you before breakfast."
A1: I'll be honest with you, sclyde2, this Q&A has grown to be quite the wall of text, and I expect your wet-nurse stopped reading it to you pages ago, but I will go ahead and answer the question for my own amusement:
A2: That's exactly what my parents said after they found out I'd been stripped of my spelling bee crown due to doping accusations.  And I will tell you exactly what I told them: "Can't nobody tell me nothin'" which is actually just a quote from Lil Nas X's magnum opus Old Town Road, which I was listening to at that moment.  And I'm still listening to it, your highness.  I'll never stop.

I'm going to stop now, as I feel I've answered all of the questions I feel like answering for now.  Feel free to keep 'em coming, though.

I love you!

I find your post to be HIGHLY offensive and completely inappropriate for this, or any forum.

And I laughed my ass off.