Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: cybrsrce on October 08, 2021, 09:54:33 PM
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Frame: AM831 Medium
Fork: Rockshox Zeb Ultimate 160mm
Headset: Cane Creek Helllbender 70 IS42/52
Stem: e*thirteen Plus 35 40mm
Handlebar: 800mm OneUp Components Carbon Bar 35mm rise
Grips: Diety Knuckleduster
Brakes: Shimano XT BL-M8100 levers, BR-M8120 4-piston calipers F/R
Rotors: Shimano XTR SM-RT99 203mm F 180mm R
Drivetrain: SRAM GX Eagle AXS
Bottom Bracket: RWC Stainless BB92 DUB
Crankset: SRAM GX Eagle DUB Lunar 165mm
Chainring: absoluteBlack 30T OVAL Boost for SRAM 3mm
Chain: SRAM XX1 Eagle Black
Cassette: SRAM GX Eagle 10-50T
Shock: Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate 210x55mm w/MegNeg
Seatpost: Rockshox Reverb AXS 170mm
Saddle: Ergon SM Pro Ti
Pedals: OneUp Components AL pedals
Wheels: 29" Sun Ringle Duroc 40 with DT Swiss 350 CL hubs - torque caps and 54t ratchet
Tires Maxxis Assegai EXO+ 2.6 F / Maxxis Dissector EXO+ 2.4 R tubeless
Other bits and bobs:
EDC Tool to be threaded into the Zeb
RWC needle bearing shock mount hardware just because
Cane Creek AL crank preload
Barfly 4 computer mount
Lizard Skins Carbon Leather downtube protector
Dyedbro EWS Mountains frame protection
Rockshox Maxle (rear)
Wolftooth seat clamp
MRP XCg V2 Bash Guard 32T ISCG-05
VHS 2.0 Slapper Chainstay Protector
Some plugs for all the frame holes I don't need
I think that is all the things? Bars, grips, brakes, saddle, rotors, pedals, wheels, and tires are coming over from the bike this is replacing.
Already ran into a problem with the seatpost as there is carbon fiber and/or resin bulging at a join. I'm going to have to use a reamer to open it up as I need another 30mm post depth.
Still waiting on the MegNeg but I have everything else on hand, should be a quick build.
Build starts after a ride tomorrow morning!
(https://i.imgur.com/Iv65LOg.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Iv65LOg.jpg)
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Can't wait to see it.
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Expected weight? In my build in progress I should end around 13.0 kg
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Expected weight? In my build in progress I should end around 13.0 kg
If it is under 15kg I would be very surprised.
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In the other thread someone is at 12.2 kg... With this build I would expect less. It's a heck of a nice build for any frame. I'll have to weigh mine but it feels pretty light picking it up and just missing a couple things like pedals and rotors/adapters
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I'll post some of the build pictures tomorrow. I'm waiting on a couple banjo connectors for the brake cables before I move them over.
Without the brakes, dropper controller, shift controller, batteries, and chain it is already 13.6 kg.
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First things -
Wolftooth seat clamp, seat post, top tube protector (man I did a terrible job), chainstay protector, and downtube protector:
(https://i.imgur.com/dWaxua7.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/dWaxua7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KUI3ZdC.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/KUI3ZdC.jpg)
Pressed in the bearings - this frame could definitely use a facing, I have some clicking that I need to deal with before riding.
(https://i.imgur.com/8e8EtKB.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/8e8EtKB.jpg)
This is probably totally unnecessary but I thought it was neat. Cane Creek aluminum preload for SRAM DUB cranks - directions says to green locktite or super glue it to the spindle.
(https://i.imgur.com/Pe6MKJ0.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Pe6MKJ0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Xl5lEbY.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Xl5lEbY.jpg)
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A blurry shot of the crankset with the preload and oval chainring.
(https://i.imgur.com/nnlPzcw.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/nnlPzcw.jpg)
Crankset on the bike with the bash guard installed.
(https://i.imgur.com/d59qLy1.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/d59qLy1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/n03W3u7.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/n03W3u7.jpg)
Running the brake cable was kind of a pain in the ass. Magnetic feeder tool kept getting hung up in the rear triangle outlet and the transition angle isn't great. Didn't bust up the housing too much though.
(https://i.imgur.com/ivI3970.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/ivI3970.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4sRJanD.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/4sRJanD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HieslTT.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/HieslTT.jpg)
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Hanging the derailleur and checking tire clearance and Maxle length. It fits just about perfect.
(https://i.imgur.com/7sBUox5.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/7sBUox5.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E446QoO.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/E446QoO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5YBncE2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/5YBncE2.jpg)
Pedals, saddle, and dry fit of the fork. (200x57 shock as a stand-in since I haven't done the damper swap.)
(https://i.imgur.com/o1ZWbxb.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/o1ZWbxb.jpg)
Tube cut and EDC installed.
(https://i.imgur.com/dHWl6B1.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/dHWl6B1.jpg)
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Finished with the seat tube bore, that was a chore. Reamer tool worked great except it was about 20mm too short so I had to remove the handle and rig up a big wrench and a 3/4in socket with some metal to shim it from slipping. Took me about 3 hours but seat post can shimmy all the way down to the collar so mission accomplished. Just a note, the 170mm Reverb AXS has about the same height of total exposed seat post as a 210mm OneUp v2.
All clear!
(https://i.imgur.com/oa0V6Bl.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/oa0V6Bl.jpg)
Proper height
(https://i.imgur.com/3i66su2.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/3i66su2.jpg)
Got the generic banjos for the calipers, they're aluminum and look pretty nice. They have an integrated barb but the olive was really thin and hard to get over the braided hose. I had to shave off some of the outer housing to get them on. Seem to be good, at least no leaks.
(https://i.imgur.com/C1rVC5y.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/C1rVC5y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7rgdo3b.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/7rgdo3b.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tAaHtcg.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/tAaHtcg.jpg)
Some dirty oil from the rear bleed, front was even darker.
(https://i.imgur.com/o0RoFNo.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/o0RoFNo.jpg)
Half ass cockpit shot, levers are just hand tight from bleeding.
(https://i.imgur.com/X454qFF.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/X454qFF.jpg)
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Nice looking bike! Thanks for taking the time to post all of the pictures. Waiting on mine to ship. Ordered the whole xt build in the matte orange. Had them switch to tubeless rims. Almost went with the gray and seeing yours is making me regret not going in that direction! I’ll be modifying and changing over some parts as well. Got the charger 2.1 damper for the 160 Yari and some 8120 calipers for a start. I’ll post some pictures when it comes in
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Nice looking bike! Thanks for taking the time to post all of the pictures. Waiting on mine to ship. Ordered the whole xt build in the matte orange. Had them switch to tubeless rims. Almost went with the gray and seeing yours is making me regret not going in that direction! I’ll be modifying and changing over some parts as well. Got the charger 2.1 damper for the 160 Yari and some 8120 calipers for a start. I’ll post some pictures when it comes in
Thanks, I was looking for a 2020 Hightower frame in this gray but I could only find full bikes with an awful mix of components - and crazy prices.
I assume that is a new Yari with the complete bike build? I have a 2021 Yari and the new MC damper feels pretty close to an older Lyrik. Just in case you wanted to give it a few rides to see if the charger is necessary. I have a 130mm on a 29+ hardtail though and it doesn't see a lot of super chunky terrain, but it is still pretty plush. XT 4-piston brakes are my favorite, durable and powerful, that is definitely a worthwhile upgrade.
Quick setup ride and this frame is really nice, you're going to enjoy it.
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Buttoning up the brakes I found that I needed to add two washers to clear the heat fins on the front rotor. I don't know if not being black is going to bother me or not, easy to rectify I guess.
(https://i.imgur.com/F7TVFtx.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/F7TVFtx.jpg)
Rear fits perfectly.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q2vv8Fm.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Q2vv8Fm.jpg)
Could have made the hoses a bit shorter but otherwise happy with this setup. Set the brake levers, controllers, and computer mount.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ouw1kjv.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/Ouw1kjv.jpg)
Went the extra mile and did the full squish chain measurement and sagged b screw adjustment. New SRAM tool is stupid simple.
(https://i.imgur.com/3r0SdZb.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/3r0SdZb.jpg)
"You guys go ahead, I have to update the firmware on my seatpost..."
(https://i.imgur.com/MzTdEBC.png)
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The rear brake fits a 180mm rotor? Is the Zeb a 180mm as well? I'm still waiting on adapters and CL lock rings for my hubs so haven't tried fitting anything yet. Was originally going to go with 203mm CL rotors but didn't notice they were thicker than normal and not sure they will work with the Shimano 4 pot brakes. I also have some 180mm 6 bolt and some adapters to run on CL and then wouldn't need the adapters to run 203. Either way I'm still waiting on CL lock rings that got used on another wheelset at some point.
Do you plan on sticking with 180 or think you may go bigger? I've never ran bigger than 180 but at times have felt like they would be nice especially in the front. If the brakes have good modulation is there any down side other than weight?
Also, I finally weighed mine and it's around 12.9 kg. From lifting it up I thought it was lighter and can see how it could get to 15 pretty easy with some more heavy duty parts. I was hoping for a final weight about where I am now but that's not going to happen, though I went with value and didn't pay much attention to weight so can't complain. My large frame was 2435g which isn't all that much heavier than more XC FS frames.
Let us know what you think once you start getting more time on it! Would also be curious to hear what your coming from.
Sorry for rambling so much in your thread... :o
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Thanks man. Already ordered the Charger. Other bike has a Fox factory 36 with the grip2 so I wanted more of an even playing field going between the two bikes. Pretty long chunky descents around here. 8120s came today. So did Nuke Proof chain stay protector. Now if only the bike would arrive! Keep posting, would love to hear ride reports.
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The rear brake fits a 180mm rotor? Is the Zeb a 180mm as well? I'm still waiting on adapters and CL lock rings for my hubs so haven't tried fitting anything yet. Was originally going to go with 203mm CL rotors but didn't notice they were thicker than normal and not sure they will work with the Shimano 4 pot brakes. I also have some 180mm 6 bolt and some adapters to run on CL and then wouldn't need the adapters to run 203. Either way I'm still waiting on CL lock rings that got used on another wheelset at some point.
Do you plan on sticking with 180 or think you may go bigger? I've never ran bigger than 180 but at times have felt like they would be nice especially in the front. If the brakes have good modulation is there any down side other than weight?
Zeb is a minimum 200mm and I had to shim it up for the Shimano 203mm. 180mm rear though, I usually start trail/enduro bikes with 203/203 and end up dropping the rear down to 180 because I just skid. This frame may be different, if so it would give me the excuse to upgrade to new XTR rotors :)
As a reference I'm built like a larger, much older, Richie Rude with none of his talent... 187cm 97.5kg or 6'1.5" and 215lbs in freedom units. I usually have a hip pack or full low slung backpack, depending on how long the ride will be, adding another few kg.
Also, I finally weighed mine and it's around 12.9 kg. From lifting it up I thought it was lighter and can see how it could get to 15 pretty easy with some more heavy duty parts. I was hoping for a final weight about where I am now but that's not going to happen, though I went with value and didn't pay much attention to weight so can't complain. My large frame was 2435g which isn't all that much heavier than more XC FS frames.
I figured the frame would weight more, seems like they would have to use a lot of carbon to get that shape. I'm no CF aficionado but if I had to guess they actually used more, or all, T1000 then some of my older T700 and T800 frames. Although they are also very light they are smaller by volume if that makes sense.
Definitely could have squeezed out some grams by going to a lighter fork and components but the weight also helps a little when heading downhill. I think the fork will last longer since I'm, most likely, done racing as I usually have to do a 200 hour maintenance every season. That isn't uncommon around the northeastern USA. It is also doubtful a carbon crankset would last me a season or that would have been where I started, crank and pedal strike city - I'll post some closeups of my previous crankset and pedals :) Might trickle down the GX gear eventually for X01 AXS and X01 or XX1 cassette, I'm also eyeing up some carbon wheels even though I've recommended against them for quite some time.
As it is pretty complete I will weight it again today to see how thicc this boi is.
Let us know what you think once you start getting more time on it! Would also be curious to hear what your coming from.
Sorry for rambling so much in your thread... :o
It will get a baptism by fire this weekend if the weather holds. I had to take the super deluxe to a shop because it wouldn't pressurize correctly after I swapped the damper, hopefully they can do better. In the meantime I have a 200x57 Monarch RC3 from the bike this replaced on there and it feels pretty good. It is in desperate need of a service (kit ordered) but it will do for one or two more rides.
If you haven't noticed, I ramble a lot :) It is why these threads are here.
I'm coming from an FM356 which was pretty nice if not already outdated when I got it, probably late 2018/early 2019. Cracked the chainstay or I might still be riding it. It is a decent compact race ride even with a Works 2.0 degree angle headset. Here is the before pic -
(https://i.imgur.com/4UBrP4D.jpg)
The fiber fix tape around the crack which is right under the full chain link. It is completely rideable and stiffer than before it was cracked, that tape is pretty amazing.
(https://i.imgur.com/U45SBSf.jpg)
Some 170mm crank arm rash.
(https://i.imgur.com/5pmj7Ud.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V7Rq5Um.jpg)
Chunks out of the bash.
(https://i.imgur.com/D7nt1uZ.jpg)
Pedals take a beating
(https://i.imgur.com/dony05N.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZTo0Yz7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AoQOoPx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/n9CZ8t2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cr14Rx3.jpg)
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Thanks man. Already ordered the Charger. Other bike has a Fox factory 36 with the grip2 so I wanted more of an even playing field going between the two bikes. Pretty long chunky descents around here. 8120s came today. So did Nuke Proof chain stay protector. Now if only the bike would arrive! Keep posting, would love to hear ride reports.
Oh yeah, that would put them pretty close on capability. I keep going back to Rockshox because of the small bump sensitivity, just couldn't get a fox 34/fit4? to do what I wanted. Sold it for a Lyrik and decided I wouldn't look back. My jump line days are behind me or I would consider Fox again, really night and day difference in big hit compression. Doesn't matter how much you tune the high speed, low speed, and rebound they are just biased for different types of riding.
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It may get a little heavier with the change in shock and a full gear strap, but right now it sits at 14.59kg (32.17lbs). A little lighter than I thought it would be so that is a bonus.
(https://i.imgur.com/1u8xEtn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QIPU7Fy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tkoBVoc.jpg)
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Looks good! My frame is the same color, which is a lot lighter shade than the #1 on the color palette appeared. I like neutral colors more than bright so it's growing on me.
I'm also 187 cm and went with a large. How does the medium feel? Even though the reach is pretty long, the seat to bar distance is the same as my current 120mm 5 yr old frame and will be a little less once I switch from a 60 to 40mm stem when it gets here, which I didn't think would be the case. I went back and forth between a medium and large so I'm curious how the smaller one feels as they can be easier to toss around and more fun, though 29s with heavier tires make that more difficult.
I'm definitely a chronic rambler and fairly incapable of writing short sentences...typing fast doesn't help either.
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I picked a pantone that was closer to the 2022 gloss carbon color and Eddy replied is that black? So I thought maybe it was a little dark so I sent pantone 11c. I bet it is just my monitor. I really like the color but expected it to be a few shades darker.
Components selected based on this frame measuring out close to a large HT, it is pretty close. Tight twisty trails around me so I usually opt for a large vs XL. I can always make the large a little bigger by moving the seat back and longer stem, you know the drill I'm sure. It feels just right at the moment but I'll have to let you know after I give it a real trail test.
This is what the cool kids are doing these days, steep seat tube angles and slacker head tube make it feel like you're in XC climbing mode in the saddle and at the bike park with the dropper down. I think they did well designing a modern frame - with lots of influence from SC of course :)
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There is a good chance it wouldn't hit with the race that came with the Hellbender but I figured the +3mm would be fine anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/6Pmdalo.jpg)
Almost finished product for Eddy's playlist.
(https://i.imgur.com/rBpn3Uy.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/rBpn3Uy.jpg)
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Looks amazing. Will be interested to hear what you think about it on the trail. I’m 6’1” too but went with the large. Slightly shorter reach than my xl Yt Jeffsey. Also interested on thoughts related to HTA. On my YT I slacked it by 1 degree and bumped travel up to 160. Brought the HTA to about 64.5. Liked it better all the way around. Been considering my options for the 831. Probably gonna ride it for a bit to see what I think. Wish the headset was not IS. Limits the options. The Slack-R is 1.5 degrees and think it might be too much. Maybe an offset bushing or two to bring to 65 or 64.5. Hate to slacken the STA though. Looks like you are all set to rip that thing this weekend. Have fun.
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Pointed downward in a straight line this thing just wants to go, not bad when pedaling up either. The twitchy front end and lumbering body feel really off to me, I need more time on it. Also was lazy and put in the RS Trailforks numbers for PSI and rebound and got a really harsh ride, so much so that I had to stop in the middle of a long downhill to give my arms a break :)
Backend is also flexy, I need to double check that I torqued the linkage bolts. More tuning and testing this week.
So, about the size - In or out of the saddle I feel like it fits me perfectly. So far that is the thing that I am most happy with about the setup. I also think the head angle feels right but I'm probably closer to 64.5 (I will verify) with the temporary shorter shock, crown spacer, and a guaranteed longer A2C then they designed for the frame. It also just barely fits on my bike rack so I don't want to further lengthen the wheelbase :)
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...The fiber fix tape around the crack which is right under the full chain link. It is completely rideable and stiffer than before it was cracked, that tape is pretty amazing....
I may have missed an episode... What crack was this?
And more intriguing, what is this magic tape?
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I may have missed an episode... What crack was this?
And more intriguing, what is this magic tape?
The rear end of the FM356 would always flex under torque but one day I noticed it was really bad after a rough day out. It failed the knock test so I sanded it a bit to see how bad it was and it was all the way around right behind the chainring. So I tried the FiberFix tape to see if I could get some tame rides in before getting a new bike and it is actually stronger now than I think it has ever been. I'd been riding it with the "fix" on my regular trails (lots of black/double black rocky stuff) since August until last weekend and I think it could go on without issue. Even cased a few, quite a few, tables on a jump line and it came out of it like nothing happened.
I used the FiberFix 1" tape since it was a tight space. It is some sort of prepreg fiberglass I think, similar to what is used on casts for broken bones.
https://www.amazon.com/FIBERFIX-8-57101E-11-FiberFix-Repair/dp/B00B28Z2AC
There are some youtube videos about it but this one is sort of close to what I did without cutting the frame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9ltKk76neQ
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Hopefully you get things ironed out and you like how it rides. The Zeb is supposed to be amazing so that shouldn’t be too hard. How much shorter is the rear shock you have on there now? Hope the frame tightens up a bit. Good luck.
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Hopefully you get things ironed out and you like how it rides. The Zeb is supposed to be amazing so that shouldn’t be too hard. How much shorter is the rear shock you have on there now? Hope the frame tightens up a bit. Good luck.
It was only sagging at around 11% so I dropped it few lbs and now it is a little over 20%, that will be a better baseline. Current shock is 10mm shorter and the whole package together brings me to about a 64° head angle as measured with my phone.
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Have you gotten any more time on it? Does the flex feel any better?
I think I have a lost package so still haven't ridden it. But pushing sideways on the rear has me worried about flex...
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That is a sick looking bike and the parts seem like it was built with bad intentions in mind. 8)
Congrats on the build! ;)
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Have you gotten any more time on it? Does the flex feel any better?
I think I have a lost package so still haven't ridden it. But pushing sideways on the rear has me worried about flex...
All of the labeled bolts are torqued to spec but the thrubolt I torqued to 14nm, it can still be tightened more but I don't want to strip it. I forgot to ask Eddy for more specs but yeah, it is real flexy. I had the same "problem" with my last frame where I could make the rear dance just by sitting and putting a little pressure on the pedals. I also have a slight knock and movement from the rear triangle and I can't quite figure out where the movement is happening.
I'm sure part of it is my rear wheel, which I just trued, that has more flex than I would like. It has lasted for a year so I can't complain but I do have to tighten it up after almost every ride. Just bought a set of NOBL wheels with I9 Hydra hubs because of the lifetime warranty and the promise of lasting more than a season. I haven't used carbon mtb wheels in a long time and I hope it will help with some of the flex issues on this frame or the next... If I torque crack this frame I'm done with FS "replicas."
Going to reserve judgement until I get the proper shock back in and check the linkage again. Which bolts did you shim?
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Hope you can get the frame dialed in. Kind of a bummer with all you have put into the build. I had an Evil Following for years that started to get more and more play in the back that would not tighten. Carbon had compressed a bit around the main pivot. I rigged up a couple of washers and it tightened right up. Friend on same frame with same issues. Evil actually gave him some thicker hardware they made to solve the issue. Frame was as good as new. Very interested to see how this resolves as it has me less excited for the arrival of my frame. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Yeah, I'm not that worried about it. If I can get it sorted, great - if not, also good. It is good enough to ride but I still have my eye out for a hightower or megatower frame where almost everything transfers over. Maybe even some of the high pivot frames but I'm trying to stay focused on the better pedaling bikes. I think a few of us should make videos of the flex just to compare.
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The bolt I had to shim was one of the 8mm bolts at the upper linkage. But if I put my fingers behind the seat stay and my thumb on the linkage and pulled, it was very noticeable where it flexed over until it contacted the bolt head.
I still don't have adapters for my rotors so no brakes, but just pedaling around and shifting thru the gears grinds on my nerves, if nothing else. It's not even close to smooth. And as a person that as a teenager took apart and put back together bikes to learn how and get tuning optimized because I was tired of going to races and having my shop tuned bike not up to my "standards", there is no way I can ride it in it's current state.
Maybe I'll grab a 10 or 11 speed cassette, Shifter, and derailleur to throw on because they aren't nearly as finicky to derailleur placement and adjustment as 12 speed is. Assuming it's determined the frame is rideable and not wet noodle flexy. I don't like throwing parts at something instead of figuring out the actual problem. But from what I've found, the issue for my setup is mainly the hanger and not something I can do much about. If I had access to a CNC machine I would have already started modeling a replacement but I'm not paying what a 1 off part usually costs. On that note, I did get a reply from Eddy asking for more information so he could discuss it with his engineers, and I sent him the drawings and everything needed to make a revision if so inclined. Will see what his reply is.
I'm really trying to withhold judgement and not condemn it before doing some real riding. But excitement is dropping off pretty quick. My daughter has a softball game further away than a 6 and under game should be, so hopefully I'll get by some shops tomorrow because my parts still haven't shown up.
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I added makeshift shims made from a gallon water bottle and it seemed to stiffen up the rear a bit. I don't know if it was that, tightening most of the drive side spokes, or a combination of both but it takes more effort to make it flex. I forgot to measure the bolt width, I'm thinking of ordering a few different width washers and seeing if I can get a 2mm on each side to really tighten it up.
Proper shock goes a long way in making the bike feel more put together. Steeepened the HTA to 65° but my effective (adjusted to saddle height) seat tube angle is still 75°. Whatever though, it still climbs pretty well. More tuning tomorrow and maybe throw the MegNeg in the mix next week.
Silly question FlaMtnBkr, is the surface under the hanger flat? You have multiple hangers and they all have the same result? Have you checked it out with a hanger alignment tool?
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Did you feel some movement or just made the washers to see if it would help? I'm glad that it seemed to help. I'll see if it looks like a standard size and try to get something in metal. Or see if I have some hole punches the right size and get some shim stock or a beer can to see what it does. If it helps I might try making some for each pivot point as long as it doesn't bind or interfere with the bearings. It's not hard to make a hole punch if it seems like it will help. I've described it somewhere else but can do so again if anyone is interested.
The carbon should be flat under the hanger but throwing on a new one is something I should try. I have used an aligner to check it and made a slight adjustment but it came pretty straight. When reading the Sram document that describes the hanger dimensions, it said to check with aligner and as long as it's less than 5mm at the rim then it should be OK. I was pretty surprised it specified that much! I guess across the diameter of a wheel it's a pretty small angle but I always go for perfect.
I'm about to fall asleep but out of curiosity, with a Rim with 595 ERD and assuming the tool feeler touches on one side and is 5mm off at 180 degrees, that's only about 0.48 deg which isn't much and less than I thought before actually thinking about it.
Anyways, I'll check back but my body is insisting on sleep
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Did you feel some movement or just made the washers to see if it would help? I'm glad that it seemed to help. I'll see if it looks like a standard size and try to get something in metal. Or see if I have some hole punches the right size and get some shim stock or a beer can to see what it does. If it helps I might try making some for each pivot point as long as it doesn't bind or interfere with the bearings. It's not hard to make a hole punch if it seems like it will help. I've described it somewhere else but can do so again if anyone is interested.
With everything torqued correctly as labeled, I can put one hand on the saddle and one hand on the top of the wheel and watch the seatstays flex what looks like 10-20mm without a whole lot of effort. It looks like it is a bit less with the shims which may be made better by adding washers between the seatstays and the upper linkage. I'll throw the caliper on it to see what will fit in there from off the shelf.
The carbon should be flat under the hanger but throwing on a new one is something I should try. I have used an aligner to check it and made a slight adjustment but it came pretty straight. When reading the Sram document that describes the hanger dimensions, it said to check with aligner and as long as it's less than 5mm at the rim then it should be OK. I was pretty surprised it specified that much! I guess across the diameter of a wheel it's a pretty small angle but I always go for perfect.
I'm about to fall asleep but out of curiosity, with a Rim with 595 ERD and assuming the tool feeler touches on one side and is 5mm off at 180 degrees, that's only about 0.48 deg which isn't much and less than I thought before actually thinking about it.
Anyways, I'll check back but my body is insisting on sleep
That all checks out just due to the nature of wheels. For hub trouble I have used the hanger alignment tool to check using the 50T cog in the cassette instead of the rim. All roads may lead to you finding out that your rear triangle is just way out of spec. Just in contrast I haven't even had to use the micro adjustment feature to fine tune the AXS shifting.
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I think I have the same flex in the rear triangle . I had my hand on the chainstay before when trying to check for any lateral movement and it wasn't bad at all but once I put my had on the saddle and tire it flexes something like 20mm very easily. I wonder if this is what caused the rubbing before ??? . I'm heading to the hardware store tomorrow to see if I can find a shim or washer that'll fit and tighten it up
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Hey cybrsrce, do you feel like the 1mm spacers brought the stiffness to a solid level? One on each side of seat tube main pivot? What material are they made of and where did you get them? Interesting that Eddy is saying they are altering the carbon layup a bit to address the issue. Unfortunately mine will probably not have these changes. Have you gotten the new rear shock in there. Been following your build and reports and am very interested in hearing how the final product has turned out. Your posts have been very thorough and help to fill a bit of the information vacuum that exists when diving into this process. Thank you!
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Hey cybrsrce, do you feel like the 1mm spacers brought the stiffness to a solid level? One on each side of seat tube main pivot? What material are they made of and where did you get them? Interesting that Eddy is saying they are altering the carbon layup a bit to address the issue. Unfortunately mine will probably not have these changes. Have you gotten the new rear shock in there. Been following your build and reports and am very interested in hearing how the final product has turned out. Your posts have been very thorough and help to fill a bit of the information vacuum that exists when diving into this process. Thank you!
It felt acceptable at the ~20mm flex in the video and now if feels like roughly half that. I haven't had it out on the trail yet but I assume it will be even more predictable.
I got these M18x27mmx1mm - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NRXPYDG but I might experiment more. The bolts are M16 (I think) and then ~2mm x ~2mm unthreaded surface to sit on the bearing. I might try two of the M18 washers (cut to the size of the bolt head) and one or two M16 on the surface that touches the bearing to make sure there is good contact.
I do have the new shock in, first ride with it wasn't great. Way too harsh even after I let it sag to 35% with rebound full slow and LSC open (full soft). Fork and shock recommended PSI, rebound, LSC, and fork HSC have all been way off for me. Removed two tokens from the fork, one token from the shock, and added the MegNeg with a single band. That seems to be what most of my near-clyde brethren are doing so I'll check that out. Going to borrow a ShockWiz to speed this along.
I'll add some pictures of the bolt/washer combo and maybe a new flex video with it on the turbo trainer.
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I printed up some 1.5mm thick washers with a 1.5mm width and that seems to have the best results yet. They are solid pla prints but I'm not sure how well they will hold up.
(https://i.imgur.com/O3HZ7ag.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qtdssat.jpg)
Video of best result so far. (https://imgur.com/27528E8) No clicking and minimal movement from the connection near the seatpost.
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Thanks for the new information and updates on progress. Keeping my fingers crossed that my frame will be tight but if not I have a great blueprint for a fix. Can get spacers 3D printed out of carbon filament. How do you think that very hard but perhaps somewhat brittle material would work for this application?
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I printed up some 1.5mm thick washers with a 1.5mm width and that seems to have the best results yet. They are solid pla prints but I'm not sure how well they will hold up.
Oh wow that looks a ton better than before! Got some metal .5mm spacers coming. Hoping 3 on each side does the same for my bike . I put some 3m protection film over the spot that rubbed and now the rear triangle has rubbed right through that. I'll upload a pic when I get home from work. Afraid to ride the ride bike until I get a better fix for this so the rubbing doesn't continue to damage the seat tube
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good work so far :) do you have torque recommendations for the bolts ?
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good work so far :) do you have torque recommendations for the bolts ?
Those are printed as 17Nm max and it still feels properly torqued even with the variety of janky washers I've tried.
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The stl files for the different washers attached should anyone want them. My old printer didn't like them all arranged in the stl so I had to add them individually for some reason.
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Thanks for the new information and updates on progress. Keeping my fingers crossed that my frame will be tight but if not I have a great blueprint for a fix. Can get spacers 3D printed out of carbon filament. How do you think that very hard but perhaps somewhat brittle material would work for this application?
Can't be any worse than standard pla. I might grab a spool to try it out, until then I'm going to print some spares just in case they disintegrate on the trail.
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hi..can the frame handle some drops? like two feet perhaps...
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hi..can the frame handle some drops? like two feet perhaps...
I've had it off of a 5 foot drop to flat-ish and it handled it well.
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You getting that bad boy dialed in? How are you feeling about the ride quality at this point?
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So maybe Im out of the loop, but why did you have to chisel out the area for the seatpost?
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You getting that bad boy dialed in? How are you feeling about the ride quality at this point?
It is getting better but not there yet, this weekend I will be playing with the pressure on the trail before using the ShockWiz. It should be pretty plush but front and rear are really firm and poppy. It is great for the one flow trail around me that we never ride... Can't blame the frame for anything yet - it pedals well, no riding wheelies up steep tech, I can start in the 50T without laying on the bars, anti-squat is amazing (may be because of the firm shock).
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So maybe Im out of the loop, but why did you have to chisel out the area for the seatpost?
More insertion depth for the dropper, it was blocked by a chunk of carbon and resin.
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Aside from the printed washers, did any of washers help reduce the flexing? Like any of the store bought ones? Unfortunately, I don't have access to a 3D printer.
Mine doesn't flex as bad as the first video. It actually looks more like the second. But maybe putting shims in it would make it even stiffer. I would post a video of my flex but I'm not sure how to do that. Maybe I'll try tomorrow when I'm not working.
Thanks for the work you guys have done on resolving this issue.
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I bought some cheap nylon ones. Any kind of plastic that you can cut and layer should work. The printed ones work well enough and they haven't deteriorated after a few rides. I'm going to see if I can get any stainless in the same sizes or have them made. I'm told that Eddy says that they made changes to the layup to fix the issue, I don't know if that means new triangles by request.
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is it just one bolt that you added the washers to? if yes, which bolt is it again? can you show via picture? thx
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is it just one bolt that you added the washers to? if yes, which bolt is it again? can you show via picture? thx
It is this one, both sides.
(https://i.imgur.com/BbmKwqW.png)
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Have you gotten the bike to a place that you feel good about? I am putting mine together now. The rear end is horribly sloppy despite Eddy assuring me it was solid. I would not ride this thing to the store much less on any trail. Flex at least as bad as your initial video, probably worse. Is your conclusion that the two bolts on the lower swing arm that you have pictured are just too long, not allowing for a solid connection to the bearings? Are you satisfied with your spacer solution? Do you feel both the inner and outer spacers are impactful or is one of them really the critical one? Would the bolts being cut by 2 or 3mm be the optimal fix? Thanks again for posting all that you have, I would be feeling 10 times worse right now if you hadn’t taken the time to outline your process in detail.
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I really want to get in on the group buy soon but only if I get some independent confirmation from someone who’s received a revised frame/rear triangle that this issue has been fully resolved in new frames that will go out for the buy. Otherwise I’ll wait and/or buy a different frame for my winter build.
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I just got my frame. Assured by Eddy that the rear triangle was not an issue. Even asked him to double check. The rear triangle is so sloppy it’s a joke. Not even close to okay. I would look elsewhere. Unless you love the thrill of the gamble or the challenge of an engineering project. Frame looks badass though! Might end up being good if I can figure it out.
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Well, after spending a good deal more time with this and consulting with a mechanical engineer, I believe that the frame has a fundamental design flaw. Because the upper link bearings of the rear triangle are pressed in from the inside, you are left with two choices and neither of them are good. The problem is that the carbon rear triangle has to rotate a bit around the bolts on the upper link. If the bolts put pressure on the carbon of the rear triangle and cinch it in to the bearings, the rear end is very solid. The problem is that now you have the bolts rubbing the carbon of the rear triangle and hindering free movement. The suspension gets very stiff. If you don’t cinch the carbon you are left with only the strength that the bearings being pressed into the carbon have, not nearly solid enough. Both options will also result in unacceptable wear issues quickly.
Interestingly, if the bearings had been pressed in from the outside I think all issues would be resolved.
Someone please tell me how I am wrong, would love to make this work but see no way it happens.
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There is a good chance it wouldn't hit with the race that came with the Hellbender but I figured the +3mm would be fine anyway.
Hey Cybrsrce, did you use a 3mm crown race spacer on the zeb? what part did you use here to get the 3mm spacing?
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Hey Cybrsrce, did you use a 3mm crown race spacer on the zeb? what part did you use here to get the 3mm spacing?
Yes, Cane Creek part #840226125558 but it is also meant for a 36x45 bearing. It won't be quite right with the supplied 45x45 bearing.
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It felt acceptable at the ~20mm flex in the video and now if feels like roughly half that. I haven't had it out on the trail yet but I assume it will be even more predictable.
I got these M18x27mmx1mm - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NRXPYDG but I might experiment more. The bolts are M16 (I think) and then ~2mm x ~2mm unthreaded surface to sit on the bearing. I might try two of the M18 washers (cut to the size of the bolt head) and one or two M16 on the surface that touches the bearing to make sure there is good contact.
I do have the new shock in, first ride with it wasn't great. Way too harsh even after I let it sag to 35% with rebound full slow and LSC open (full soft). Fork and shock recommended PSI, rebound, LSC, and fork HSC have all been way off for me. Removed two tokens from the fork, one token from the shock, and added the MegNeg with a single band. That seems to be what most of my near-clyde brethren are doing so I'll check that out. Going to borrow a ShockWiz to speed this along.
I'll add some pictures of the bolt/washer combo and maybe a new flex video with it on the turbo trainer.
What is the damping tune? If it’s stock aftermarket Medium then it’s probably over-damped. The closest comparable tune (2018-2021 SC Bronson) is Low/Low with 2.5 tokens in the positive chamber, not sure about negative spacers if any.
Of course lots of people aren’t super happy with the stock tune on SC bikes but it seems like a good starting point.
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What is the damping tune? If it’s stock aftermarket Medium then it’s probably over-damped. The closest comparable tune (2018-2021 SC Bronson) is Low/Low with 2.5 tokens in the positive chamber, not sure about negative spacers if any.
Of course lots of people aren’t super happy with the stock tune on SC bikes but it seems like a good starting point.
The Super Deluxe Ultimate for HT v2 that I got was a L/L tune but it had internal issues. I though it was me causing problems with a damper swap to the standard body but Rockshox replaced it. I ended up returning the replacement and getting a standard M/M tune version. Two tokens and two bands and it is alright, I'm going to try three tokens and 3-4 bands. Keep it under 300psi and should get full travel.
Everyone complaining on Youtube says the stock L/L tune doesn't have enough mid support but the M/M seems to have too much, at least at high PSI.
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The Super Deluxe Ultimate for HT v2 that I got was a L/L tune but it had internal issues. I though it was me causing problems with a damper swap to the standard body but Rockshox replaced it. I ended up returning the replacement and getting a standard M/M tune version. Two tokens and two bands and it is alright, I'm going to try three tokens and 3-4 bands. Keep it under 300psi and should get full travel.
Everyone complaining on Youtube says the stock L/L tune doesn't have enough mid support but the M/M seems to have too much, at least at high PSI.
Yeah, that’s why I fell in love with the DVO Topaz stock tune….it’s at least as supple and willing to use travel as a Fox/RS low tune but more supportive, and the support can be tuned a bit more independently from bump absorption than other shocks.
It helped me with my GT Force that has shipped with both Medium and Low tunes, and from what I understand was specifically intended to address the issues people had with Santa Cruz VPP bikes. They’ve branched out since then, but in the early days a lot of the principal guys at DVO like Ronnie rode SCs.
It’s too bad that pump hose fit for the piggyback is probably an issue with DVO and Suntour TriAir shocks on the 831. I bet either one would work well otherwise, as stock aftermarket tunes go.
Hopefully by the time the upper swingarm pivot issue with the 831 is confirmed to be properly sorted in current frames going out, the second gen Topaz T3 will be shipping with that sideways piggyback.
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The stl files for the different washers attached should anyone want them. My old printer didn't like them all arranged in the stl so I had to add them individually for some reason.
So does anyone here have easy access to a 3D printer? I asked all my friends and no one has access to one. I'd like to try these out to see if it helps with the flex on my frame.
If someone has access to one and is willing to print out a set, send me a private message. Should be able to just drop them in an envelope to ship them.I'll be happy to pay for them.
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So does anyone here have easy access to a 3D printer? I asked all my friends and no one has access to one. I'd like to try these out to see if it helps with the flex on my frame.
If someone has access to one and is willing to print out a set, send me a private message. Should be able to just drop them in an envelope to ship them.I'll be happy to pay for them.
If you shop it out, it may be worth getting these printed in nylon for the lower friction factor.
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I ended up cutting my own nylon washer to fit despite having access to 3D printer. Determined with my friend who is a mechanical engineer in fabrication and production that the nylon is better for this application than the material that would be used in the 3D printer. We are going to order nylon washers in the exact measurements from a company he sources from. The spacers are going to have to serve as bushings because of a design flaw with this frame. If there is not pressure on the carbon pushing the bearings on to the upper link, you are relying on the strength of the bearings bond with the upper link to provide stability (not good). Because you need pressure on the carbon of the upper link and this link needs to pivot, it is essential in order to prevent wear and to not bind the suspension that the material used can be low friction. I think if the bearings were pressed from the outside, this frame would work very well.
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I ended up cutting my own nylon washer to fit despite having access to 3D printer. Determined with my friend who is a mechanical engineer in fabrication and production that the nylon is better for this application than the material that would be used in the 3D printer. We are going to order nylon washers in the exact measurements from a company he sources from. The spacers are going to have to serve as bushings because of a design flaw with this frame. If there is not pressure on the carbon pushing the bearings on to the upper link, you are relying on the strength of the bearings bond with the upper link to provide stability (not good). Because you need pressure on the carbon of the upper link and this link needs to pivot, it is essential in order to prevent wear and to not bind the suspension that the material used can be low friction. I think if the bearings were pressed from the outside, this frame would work very well.
I understand the concept that you're talking about here but how does putting a crush material between the bolt and carbon differ than just the bolt on carbon in a correct layup for friction? I get that it is a flawed design but I don't see how the material would make much of a difference here as long as it maintains structure. In a perfect world it would be bolt -> bearing -> carbon -> bearing in linkage or something like that where no portion is restricting movement.
Also - The one off costs from someone like shapeways to "print" in nylon is like $50 for a set so cutting your own out of a bag of 100 for $6 isn't the worst way to go.
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The difference is the face of the bolt would be up against a wear component (nylon washer) with a lower coefficient of friction. Ideally there would be a thrust bearing here but a bushing is close enough.
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100 percent correct. I actually had some perfect sizes aluminum spacers off of a Evil suspension rebuild that I put in there. Rear end stiff as a board but suspension noticeably impaired movement. Also some wear in carbon evident (like a light sanding)after just bouncing it around for a bit.
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Also Cybrsrce, because we are looking to get structural support from the pressure on the carbon, I skipped the inner spacers that would contact the bearings as that would just maintain the faulty proportions
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Again though, the bolts are also an alloy and would be metal on carbon if there wasn't a play issue. That said, PLA, ABS, Nylon, etc. really shouldn't make a different as their friction coefficient is going to be better than alloy on carbon that you get from a normally "functional" triangle.
At the end of the day, are we making out better? :)
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Also Cybrsrce, because we are looking to get structural support from the pressure on the carbon, I skipped the inner spacers that would contact the bearings as that would just maintain the faulty proportions
Without that I do not get contact with the bearing. That would be a good spot for a metal washer though.
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Just to add, I would also grease the hell of out this joint and make it part of routine maintenance.
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The spacers just have to serve as bushings to provide some support and reduce friction. Hopefully hold up fairly well too. I think finding the best material for that may be trial and error. My friend thought his 3D print material would be too brittle. Getting contact with the bearings and getting enough pressure on the carbon would be ideal but maybe tricky. Do you feel you have found that balance?
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I also think that there may be contact with th bearings without the inner spacers. The bolts were hard stopping on the bearings with no pressure on the carbon in stock form. With outer spacers I think they may be compressing into the bearings and filling up the gap. We are all kind of guessing though.
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The spacers just have to serve as bushings to provide some support and reduce friction. Hopefully hold up fairly well too. I think finding the best material for that may be trial and error. My friend thought his 3D print material would be too brittle. Getting contact with the bearings and getting enough pressure on the carbon would be ideal but maybe tricky. Do you feel you have found that balance?
I think it is pretty close. I've had to remove those bolts at least 5 times to make changes to the shock and they are compressed a bit but intact. Destroyed my rear wheel, from the videos, this weekend just in time for my new wheels to arrive - I would video the flex again but I have a gigantic ugly rear fender on right now.
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I also think that there may be contact with th bearings without the inner spacers. The bolts were hard stopping on the bearings with no pressure on the carbon in stock form. With outer spacers I think they may be compressing into the bearings and filling up the gap. We are all kind of guessing though.
So I initially had the bottom out in the linkage and it was only just making contact with all the bits of the triangle. Then I added a spacer to just the underside of the bolt head and there was clicking because the bearing had play. Second washer that contact the bearing got it to where it is now. It still seems like it flexes more than it should but I don't feel anything wrong on the trail.
I think we may have different stages of the same issue.
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You guys are doing good work. I really hope we can figure out a solution to this issue. If it weren't for the flexy rear end, this frame is about perfect for me.
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You guys are doing good work. I really hope we can figure out a solution to this issue. If it weren't for the flexy rear end, this frame is about perfect for me.
Someone really needs to show some quantitative flex tests. I see no "qualitative" difference with my Altitude just by pressing with the knee in the middle of the frame. The wheel and tire flex much more than the frame, but again, let's try to come up with something quantitative. I was thinking of holding the front triangle flat on its side and applying a downward force on the rear axle with a scale and measuring the triangle skew at 0 and some significant value, say 20 kg, and then comparing with a similar bike. I still need to find a sturdy setup for doing this at home...
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To me the flex in stock form is obvious an unrideable. It also makes perfect sense when you break down the design of the frame. Without bushings or bearings on the outside of the carbon, you have a major problem. If you do ride like that for a while, it’s very likely the pressed in bearings will come loose and mess up the carbon too. If your bolts fit differently and do make contact with the carbon then a different problem will happen that is just as bad.
Yes cybrsrce I do see the dilemma. Probably depends on the tolerances in there and how thick/compressible the nylon washer is. The right washer would take up the space, compress in and allow contact with the bearings as well. Might be some luck involved. Gonna try with just the outer washers first. Feels very solid and pretty smooth right now so we will see.
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Someone really needs to show some quantitative flex tests. I see no "qualitative" difference with my Altitude just by pressing with the knee in the middle of the frame. The wheel and tire flex much more than the frame, but again, let's try to come up with something quantitative. I was thinking of holding the front triangle flat on its side and applying a downward force on the rear axle with a scale and measuring the triangle skew at 0 and some significant value, say 20 kg, and then comparing with a similar bike. I still need to find a sturdy setup for doing this at home...
If your seat stays don't look like they're rolling when you move the wheel then just go enjoy riding the bike, you don't have this problem. Stop looking for it, stop blaming wheels, move on.
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I have a video of mine flexing, but can't figure out how to attach it here.
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Here is mine flexing:
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That does not look good to me. Maybe not quite as wobbly as mine but close.
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Here is mine flexing:
Washers should clean up that slack. I didn't see a lot of lateral/torsional flex but you moved your wheel gentler than I did.
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Yeah, I am not happy with the flexing. I am hoping to find a solution for it. Thanks again for the work you guys are doing on this.
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The spacers are going to have to serve as bushings because of a design flaw with this frame. If there is not pressure on the carbon pushing the bearings on to the upper link, you are relying on the strength of the bearings bond with the upper link to provide stability (not good). Because you need pressure on the carbon of the upper link and this link needs to pivot, it is essential in order to prevent wear and to not bind the suspension that the material used can be low friction. I think if the bearings were pressed from the outside, this frame would work very well.
Posted some drawings showing the issue here: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3172.msg32493.html#msg32493
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Nice work JJJ. only thing I would say is that the bearings from the outside would work. Yeti does this for example. That said, none of our re-engineering ideas matter much if the company is not stepping up to make this right. There would need to be a new mold for the rear triangle and new ones sent out to us all. We could all press for refunds.
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Hey cybrsrce, I take it from your other post that you are not feeling like your bushings have created enough support to the link to make the ride quality acceptable. Mine feels good in the garage but have not had it out yet. Are you planning to return the frame?
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Nice work JJJ. only thing I would say is that the bearings from the outside would work. Yeti does this for example.
Provide a pic! I tried to figure that out but came to the same issue, reversed.
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Tried to attach but have not done it before hope it works.
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Tried to attach but have not done it before hope it works.
Works. So what prevents the bearing from sliding outward when the eyelet shifts inward in compensating the (necessary) clearance between the eyelet and the link?
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Bearings actively pressed in to the carbon at all times as opposed to essentially floating in there.
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Bearings actively pressed in to the carbon at all times as opposed to essentially floating in there.
A pressed bearing will eventually come out if there is repeated axial force tending to pull it out. No serious assembly leaves a pressed part unsecured. You need something securing the bearing in its recess, like a retainer ring, otherwise it's the same story as for the 831.
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What is Yeti doing t make this work?
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What is Yeti doing t make this work?
"Bearing keepers" that screw over the bearings in their recesses https://nsmb.com/media/images/yeti-sb150-bearing-swap-2.original.jpg
Source https://nsmb.com/articles/yeti-sb150-bearing-swap-how-and-how-not/
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Nice. Does not look like there is much hope for this frame. We might have to start working on refunds/returns
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There's this fix, with a new screw design: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3172.msg32504.html#msg32504
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I think a solution can be found. I think moving the bearings to the link similar to the SC design (referencing JJJs drawings), then using custom bushings and spacers to convert the design to thru bolt similar to SC is the way to go. This would require the seller to replace the link and supply hardware. That is if they even want to fix it. I'm a mechanical designer and have access to CNC machine tools at work. Once I get my frame Ill be trying to fix this myself. I really wish I had ordered the ICAN P9 right now....
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Or try to stop the order.
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Guys, a couple questions.
1.) When did this new design come out? i.e. if mine was being shipped in the last month or so, should it have the new design w/o this problem? j/w if anyone knows.
2.) Has anyone tried to resolve this with Haideli yet?
thanks,
deuce
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All of them will have this problem
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Eddy said they changed the carbon layup to “fix” this issue, but AFAIK nobody’s received the updated rear triangle yet and from everything I’ve been reading in the 831 threads, taking up the gaps in the upper pivot won’t fix the problem alone. It sounds like a completely new and different upper link would be required with better bearing shells and shields/retaining clips.
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This is my first Chinese frame. Has something like this occurred with a frame before? Did the manufacturer do anything about it?
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Eddy told me “all frames have some flex, it is fine” paraphrasing but don’t get your hopes up.
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hmmmmmmmmm.......so how much $ in parts would it take to make this issue be resolved? i mean, ideally I'd like the manufacturer to resolve this...
apologies as this is my first ever build and just started mtb this past spring so not too knowlegeable on these bike quirks.
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No one really has a way to resolve it yet. There are some good ideas out there but they will require some machined parts. Bushings can tighten it up but not looking like a very acceptable solution.
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New wheels, tires, pedals, back to round chainring, testing out different grips, and shockwiz trying to get this damn shock sorted.
NOBL TR37 i9 Hydra hubs that need to be greased monthly or they sound like an Aztek death whistle
Specialized Butcher T9 Soil Searching 29x2.6 up front
Specialized Eliminator T7 Soil Searching 29x2.3 out back
I love tanwalls just not sure if I love them with the bike this color.
SRAM 30t boost chainring in lunar to match the rest of the kit
Gray version of the metal OneUp pedals, I put the beat up black ones they replaced on my hardtail
Ergon GA3 this month. Also have Ergon GA2 FAT and Deity Lockjaw to test. Tried Deity Supracush but they are, in fact, not cush... I may go back to my preferred Deity Knuckleduster or DMR Deathgrip.
So, tanwalls - Thumbs up/down?
(https://i.imgur.com/rNi76XT.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/rNi76XT.jpg)
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Curious why you went back to round? Did the oval not live up to hype or was it just not as good for your style of riding ?
I'm right there with ya. I normally like tan sidewalls but I think you're bike looked killer with the black tires. I don't think it looks bad , though. Still a very very nice looking bike with the tans
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Curious why you went back to round? Did the oval not live up to hype or was it just not as good for your style of riding ?
I was exhausted after doing the same rides I have been doing for the past few years. Thought it was being freshly vaccinated, the heat, bike weighs a few pounds more and is longer and slacker than my previous frame, etc. Finally decided to put an old 30t chainring on just to test if that was it, and I do feel better after a few rides. The oval is really efficient, maybe too efficient for me as it just seemed to kick my ass with all the other factors. It was like I was never getting a rest - but man it really helped tackle slow tech climbs.
I'm right there with ya. I normally like tan sidewalls but I think you're bike looked killer with the black tires. I don't think it looks bad , though. Still a very very nice looking bike with the tans
I was so excited to see a 29er trail tire in tanwall that I just bought them without considering how they would look :) I've not had Specialized tires that weren't shit but these new compounds have promise. If they work well you can get a set for a little more than one decent Maxxis tire, but maybe in a black sidewall.
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I was so excited to see a 29er trail tire in tanwall that I just bought them without considering how they would look :) I've not had Specialized tires that weren't shit but these new compounds have promise. If they work well you can get a set for a little more than one decent Maxxis tire, but maybe in a black sidewall.
I'm deciding on another am831 for my sister ( definitely after they actually fix the frame ;D ) or the Carbonda 1166. I saw someone here get a transparent blue top coat over raw carbon from carbonda and Im thinking that might look pretty nice with these tan sidewalls
BTW the tans with the gray frame are really growing on me. Maybe it looked off originally since we were used to seeing your bike with the black tires.
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I'm deciding on another am831 for my sister ( definitely after they actually fix the frame ;D ) or the Carbonda 1166. I saw someone here get a transparent blue top coat over raw carbon from carbonda and Im thinking that might look pretty nice with these tan sidewalls
BTW the tans with the gray frame are really growing on me. Maybe it looked off originally since we were used to seeing your bike with the black tires.
That was Pedaldancer here, looks really good. http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3106.msg32858.html#msg32858
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About to start my build. I got a new takeoff rockshox super deluxe from an SC Bronson (210x55). It has the 30mm roller bearing on the damper. Has anyone successfully modified the link to make it fit?
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About to start my build. I got a new takeoff rockshox super deluxe from an SC Bronson (210x55). It has the 30mm roller bearing on the damper. Has anyone successfully modified the link to make it fit?
That is not possible.
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About to start my build. I got a new takeoff rockshox super deluxe from an SC Bronson (210x55). It has the 30mm roller bearing on the damper. Has anyone successfully modified the link to make it fit?
I wasn't confident that there would be enough material on the linkage so I opted to swap to the standard eyelet damper body.
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I found a decent tune for my local trails so here are some numbers for others that may have trouble dialing it in:
Rider:
225lbs/102kg with winter gear and full pack
Bike:
33.44lbs/15.16kg
Fork (160mm Rockshox Zeb Ultimate RC2):
68psi ~30% sag
Rebound 8 clicks from closed
HSC 2 clicks from closed
LSC 1 click from closed
No volume tokens
Shock (210x55 Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate with MegNeg, generic MM tune):
292psi ~32% sag
Rebound 4 clicks from closed
LSC 1 click from closed
No volume tokens
2 bands in the MegNeg
Tuned to be planted but still have enough pop to jump. For me, Trailhead and SC base recommendations were way off. Took about 10 rides to get the shock right and there aren't even a lot of knobs to twist.
The Eliminator lasted 1.5 rides without a puncture. Change the compounds all you want, Specialized tires are still too thin.
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Yesterday was not a great day to forget the rear fender. Weather was nice, trail not as much. Benefit is that you don't notice the frame flex when the whole bike is sliding all over the place!
(https://i.imgur.com/bhbFF3T.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/bhbFF3T.jpg)
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Nice tires. Do you have enough clearance to fit a 2.5” Assegai in the rear? Asking for a friend.
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how's your bike? do you already have the flex issue or have you fixed it with a new rear triangle / jjj bots?
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Nice tires. Do you have enough clearance to fit a 2.5” Assegai in the rear? Asking for a friend.
From what I’ve heard, the clearance is very tight. I don’t remember the exact tire or rim width but the only person I know of who fitted a 2.5 said it didn’t have enough clearance and slightly rubbed the stays while on the trail.
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I ordered the new revised frame, knowing it’s downfalls. I’m hoping that the longer VPP length on the new frame allows for more tire clearance along its travel. We’ll see!
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Nice tires. Do you have enough clearance to fit a 2.5” Assegai in the rear? Asking for a friend.
It will be really tight on a 30id rim. I have rub down to the carbon from a couple different 2.4 tires.
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how's your bike? do you already have the flex issue or have you fixed it with a new rear triangle / jjj bots?
I gave JJJ's bolts about 10 rides, super smooth suspension action but I didn't notice any additional lateral stiffness with a better connection. The frame has also developed a cracking and popping noise since I changed bolts but that is probably coincidence.
Finally finished painting the new rear triangle since I ordered the wrong color. I was all prepared to put on new brakes at the same time but I found out that Magura doesn't ship banjo bolts (line screws) with "spare part" calipers. At least one more ride with the XTs but the new triangle went on this morning.
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Nice tires. Do you have enough clearance to fit a 2.5” Assegai in the rear? Asking for a friend.
First ride on the new triangle, that 2.3 Eliminator is 62mm wide at the casing and about 61mm at the wides nubs and there is already some rub. I believe the old and new triangle are the same width at that point but I can measure it. Apologize for the shit picture.
(https://i.imgur.com/lNwX3dC.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/lNwX3dC.jpg)
This is the OG triangle from a couple different 2.4 and 2.3 tires. Never ran the double Assegai on this frame.
(https://i.imgur.com/JAStfqx.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/JAStfqx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lpFMHFM.jpg){/url] (https://i.imgur.com/lpFMHFM.jpg)
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For reference I run a Maxxis Minion DHR II 29X2.3 Also on the new triangle.
(https://i.imgur.com/66PEeW7.jpeg)
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Thank you both for the documentation. With this, I'll definitely need to reconsider my rear tire choice :o
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I gave JJJ's bolts about 10 rides, super smooth suspension action but I didn't notice any additional lateral stiffness with a better connection. The frame has also developed a cracking and popping noise since I changed bolts but that is probably coincidence.
Finally finished painting the new rear triangle since I ordered the wrong color. I was all prepared to put on new brakes at the same time but I found out that Magura doesn't ship banjo bolts (line screws) with "spare part" calipers. At least one more ride with the XTs but the new triangle went on this morning.
did you get a new frame or just the rear triangle? what came with the rear triangle?
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did you get a new frame or just the rear triangle? what came with the rear triangle?
I did this also, had the old rear triangle with JJJ bolts and ordered the new triangle. It was just the rear triangle with all the hardware required for installation. Also got an extra derailleur hanger out of it.
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Took my last ride on the AM831 but I hope it isn't the frames last ride.
Short story is that I ordered an Orbea Rise H30 and will be swapping over most of the parts :)
Last upgrade I did was Shigura brakes (Shimano XTR 9120/Magura MT7) with MTX Gold pads and 203mm MDR-P rotors front/rear. Sooooo much power and super quiet, will be coming over to the Rise for sure!
Longer story is that the frame developed some awful cracking noises that I'm hoping was just the lower linkage bolt and roughed up linkage bearings. Completely disassembled the bike and checked the front triangle with a borescope, couldn't find any cracks or issues and there is nothing external to explain it.Ordered a full set of linkage bearings (upper and lower) and will assemble the frame and minimal bits to see if it cracks/creaks. If so I'll go back to Haideli for a warranty replacement, otherwise it will be rebuilt and handed down.
Must say that it has been great with the new triangle, could still be a little stiffer for my liking but I had no hesitation letting it rip where I previously had commitment issues.
Last time it will look like this (Final weight 14.65kg/32.30lbs) -
(https://i.imgur.com/US03OVR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BevSXY6.jpg)
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Shigura rules