Author Topic: My N019 Build, NASA themed!  (Read 11099 times)

rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2015, 02:56:48 PM »

All hail the pile!   ;D

I think the Nasa theme is a frkn sweet theme for one of these bikes. Ahh.. the blue wheels.. I don't know. I can kinda understand what you guys mean with Walmart-esque (I refuse to say the word! ;D) look but on the other hand, I think it might've looked really cool. Especially with the Nasa theme. That said, I guess you don't want to be taking risks when you're dropping big bucks, and the carbon weave is guaranteed to look bad ass.

Haha, indeed! A place of worship.

I do think the blue painted wheels would have a strong impression, for sure. Instead of "Walmarty" perhaps a better word is "Youthful," which is seems to be what the whole fun of these bikes is--plain old preteen bike fun.

Just for a little context, I went to school for aerospace engineering... so there's some method to the NASA madness  8)
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And...........(drumroll.....)....... look what arrived yesterday!
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rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2015, 09:11:44 AM »
So, I received the frame and it is, in a word, GORGEOUS! Bare frame, with paint weighs 1340 grams. 8) The workmanship looks great, including the hardware and the gloss white paint job. Very happy==Thank you Peter//Carbonspeed!

The only bummer is that my suspension fork crown does actually interfere with the downtube. I knew this would happen with a Bluto (at least for 15 & 17" frames), and I was hoping that my 19" frame and narrower Mekkem USD fork would evade this issue. Well, it doesn't. In fact, the fork needs 8mm between the crown race and the frame. To try to solve this, I've purchased an 8mm carbon headtube spacer that is 1.5" in ID ($2.59 on eBay). The plan is to cut one side and let it stretch to the 1.59" that it needs for the pressfit section of the steerer tube. I might also have to remove the nice anodized cap for covering the Schrader valve and lockout/damping knobs.

On another note, I tested the NASA decals I've received (without installing fully) to check placement and overall appeal. I think it is going to be great!

 I couldn't wait and installed the BB/crank to check clearance. Good to go.

On to the pics:


































Oolak

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2015, 10:15:47 AM »
Looks great already!

Bummer about the fork / downtube problem. So you did anticipate this issue? Is it a common one specific to fatbikes, this particular fork, or this particular frame?

cmh

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2015, 10:30:08 AM »
So, I received the frame and it is, in a word, GORGEOUS! Bare frame, with paint weighs 1340 grams. 8) The workmanship looks great, including the hardware and the gloss white paint job. Very happy==Thank you Peter//Carbonspeed!

The only bummer is that my suspension fork crown does actually interfere with the downtube. I knew this would happen with a Bluto (at least for 15 & 17" frames), and I was hoping that my 19" frame and narrower Mekkem USD fork would evade this issue. Well, it doesn't. In fact, the fork needs 8mm between the crown race and the frame. To try to solve this, I've purchased an 8mm carbon headtube spacer that is 1.5" in ID ($2.59 on eBay). The plan is to cut one side and let it stretch to the 1.59" that it needs for the pressfit section of the steerer tube. I might also have to remove the nice anodized cap for covering the Schrader valve and lockout/damping knobs.

I'm not fully following your planned fix - are you going to put a cut headtube spacer under the crown race? That doesn't sound like a good idea.

On another note, I tested the NASA decals I've received (without installing fully) to check placement and overall appeal. I think it is going to be great!

The NASA stickers are positively brilliant, it's looking awesome!

rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2015, 10:40:25 AM »

I'm not fully following your planned fix - are you going to put a cut headtube spacer under the crown race? That doesn't sound like a good idea.

Correct. Honestly, I'm not convinced about it either, but it is cheap/quick option to see if I can make this fork compatible with the frame.

I have also ordered a 1.5"ID, 2" OD aluminum tube from Mcmaster.com that I will machine to be an 8mm long spacer with a 1.59" ID as the long term solution.

Oolak -- Yes this is a known problem for most chinese carbon fatbike frames (SN01, FM190, N010, N018, N019) as they were designed to go with rigid carbon forks. The N019 being the most recent, I was hoping to evade this problem with a 19" version and a fork with a narrower crown than the Bluto. No dice though. As a last resort, Peter quoted me $155 for a carbon fork w/axle, but I have chronic wrist pain that makes suss forks a must.

The NASA stickers are positively brilliant, it's looking awesome!

Agreed! It was actually tough to choose/find the right sticker sizes... but I'm happy. For reference, the meatball NASA logo is 3" in diameter, and the worm logo is 3" long.

cmh

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2015, 02:21:49 PM »
I have also ordered a 1.5"ID, 2" OD aluminum tube from Mcmaster.com that I will machine to be an 8mm long spacer with a 1.59" ID as the long term solution.

If you've got the ability to machine a part, maybe make a replacement crown race that has the 8mm thickness built in? My concern is the crown race is press fit on the top of the crown (bottom of the steerer tube) and it steps down in diameter just above that, so you'll have a crown race with play if it's being held above the top of the crown.

Barring that, maybe install the crown race, then have the spacer on top of that and interfacing with the bearing? At least the crown race would be press fit to the top of the crown at that point. You'd have to machine the top of the spacer with the right angle/diameter for the bearing, though. If you can machine a tube to 1.59" accurately, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Also, I'm unsure where the Ferrari fits on the fat bike. ^_^

rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2015, 03:43:55 PM »
If you've got the ability to machine a part, maybe make a replacement crown race that has the 8mm thickness built in? My concern is the crown race is press fit on the top of the crown (bottom of the steerer tube) and it steps down in diameter just above that, so you'll have a crown race with play if it's being held above the top of the crown.

Barring that, maybe install the crown race, then have the spacer on top of that and interfacing with the bearing? At least the crown race would be press fit to the top of the crown at that point. You'd have to machine the top of the spacer with the right angle/diameter for the bearing, though. If you can machine a tube to 1.59" accurately, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Also, I'm unsure where the Ferrari fits on the fat bike. ^_^

I thought about that--just machining my own race. There are a couple issues though I'd imagine:
  • The race is steel, I'd like to stick to AL as steel is harder to cut and weighs 2X.
  • The race indeed has a very specific angled cross section to match the sealed bearing that might be tough to match. My lathe skills aren't terribly great--even hitting 1.59" accurately will be tough for me.
  • I want to be able to change the race if I need to.

From looking at the Mekkem steerer tube, there is just enough shoulder in the 1.59" section to allow the race to still be "press fit" on top of an 8mm spacer. If not, my Plan B is to make a 5mm spacer and buy the commercial solution for Salsa bikes / CaneCreek headsets available a Bikeman.com for $20. It's a replacement crown race that is +3mm thicker to render a Salsa fatbike compatible with the Bluto, and I believe that that race is compatible with the headset I got with the frame.

For reference to others, here is the short aluminum tube stock I ordered from Mcmaster ($3):
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3680/=zhv6bj

And here is the +3mm headset race for the Salsa fatbikes:
http://www.bikeman.com/HD8880.html

cmh

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2015, 07:04:42 PM »
I thought about that--just machining my own race. There are a couple issues though I'd imagine:
  • The race is steel, I'd like to stick to AL as steel is harder to cut and weighs 2X.

I wouldn't worry about that, it's not a friction material as much as it's just an interface between the fork and the bearing - I bet you could make it out of delrin or another hard plastic with no issues. I've had crown races that were actually notched, so they came off by hand. Surprising, but they worked, as the bearing held them in the right orientation.

Quote
  • The race indeed has a very specific angled cross section to match the sealed bearing that might be tough to match. My lathe skills aren't terribly great--even hitting 1.59" accurately will be tough for me.

That's the bigger problem. If it's a manual lathe (I know very very little about machining) hitting a precise angle might be a challenge.

Quote
  • I want to be able to change the race if I need to.

Considering you're dealing with an OD of 2" and a wall thickness of 1/8", that could be a problem if you machined it to be an interference fit.

Quote
From looking at the Mekkem steerer tube, there is just enough shoulder in the 1.59" section to allow the race to still be "press fit" on top of an 8mm spacer. If not, my Plan B is to make a 5mm spacer and buy the commercial solution for Salsa bikes / CaneCreek headsets available a Bikeman.com for $20. It's a replacement crown race that is +3mm thicker to render a Salsa fatbike compatible with the Bluto, and I believe that that race is compatible with the headset I got with the frame.

I think that Salsa 3mm + 5mm spacer is maybe your best bet, the least crappy solution. One other thing is a guy I've worked with on ebay who machines parts, I sent him a message asking if he'd be interested in making an 8mm crown race. I've also discovered that since they're not techincally bearing races anymore, the part in question is also called a headset "base plate".

I'll let you know if i hear anything from the ebay guy.

cmh

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2015, 06:46:24 AM »
I got a reply:

"I would say it is possible to do this. I would like to have the crown race that goes with the specific headset you are going to use so I can be sure of the dimensions. I would be able to do it for $25.
Thank you.
Chris
MTB Tools"

Here's his page on ebay if you want to get in touch with him: http://www.ebay.com/usr/mtbtools

rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2015, 08:15:22 AM »
Super cool!  What a great resource, especially at $25.  Thanks cmh! There has got to be a market for this adapter,  beyond even fat bikes as it also slackens the steering angle. When I first started looking I expected to find spacers already available.

The headset baseplate that came with my frame from Peter is indeed notched, and is what led me to believe that I might be able to get away with a similarly notched carbon headset spacer. I'll post pics and measures shortly.

cmh

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2015, 10:22:25 AM »
From the sounds of it, MTBTools Chris might want you to ship that base plate to him so he can get the dimensions right. He made me an axle to convert a 15mm thru into a 9mm quick release that worked like a champ, and I remember his turnaround being pretty quick.

I actually like notched base plates (aka crown races) as it makes installation and removal far easier - but my concern was with elevating the crown race off of the area where it's supposed to be press fit, not so much the notched-ness.

Did a little bit of research last night, I expected exactly the same as you with expecting to find a bunch of things available, but it seems like they were available when 29ers first caught on and frames hadn't been designed to account for that, just like your fatty frame, with Chris King and On-One and others making "plus 5" base plates, but then the demand seems to have stopped, aside from Salsa's own fix for the Bluto. Most of what I found was also 1 1/8" size, so before tapered steerers caught on. Hopefully with the advent of the Bluto and other suspension forks, the Chiners will adjust to clear suspension forks.

From what I've seen, it'll be a small decrease to head angle - I saw roughly .5 degree for 10mm elevation, so your handling should be pretty much unaffected.

rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2015, 05:48:49 PM »
Looks like Chris might be able to help me out!

Here's a selection of pics that I took to help dimension the new spacer:

The lower 52mm bearing cup of the frame:


With the bearing installed:


With the original crown race/baseplate sitting on the bearing:


You can see here that the headset/frame is designed to have a semi flush (+1mm) fitment with the fork.

A point I want to add here: with the crown race/baseplate installed on a 1.5 steerer (at the 1.59" section), this particular race opens up to an OD of 52.2mm, which is larger than the 52mm opening in the bottom of the frame. This means, with the fork test fit, it rubs! Its a little bit of a bummer--I thought at first that I just hadn't torqued down the headset, but on closer inspection/measurement it was clear the race was rubbing the frame.

Here's the 1.5"  carbon headset spacer installed as a test:


This test confirmed for me that adding 8mm (underneath the baseplate) as a shim is just barely enough to clear the fork knobs. Since I'm having a custom part made, I'm actually going to go +11mm instead of +8mm to give everything a touch more room.

On my steerer, the 1.59" OD pressfit section is just tall enough to grab after an 8mm shim:


Another 20 min in Solidworks, and here is the drawing for the baseplate adapter I hope to have made with MTB Tools 8):

cmh

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2015, 07:47:59 AM »
Nice, with the drawing, he might not even need the original. One thing you might want to do is take a page from the Chris King +5 and have him machine away some of the underside to lighten it up a little. Every gram counts when your NASA moon buggy gets launched!


Izzy

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2015, 08:06:10 AM »
Damn, you guys are doing some serious building in this thread! Great work. Bike is looking sick.

rvc

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Re: My N019 Build, NASA themed!
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2015, 12:46:56 PM »
Damn, you guys are doing some serious building in this thread! Great work. Bike is looking sick.

Thanks Izzy! Reallly looking forward to riding this thing.

Nice, with the drawing, he might not even need the original. One thing you might want to do is take a page from the Chris King +5 and have him machine away some of the underside to lighten it up a little. Every gram counts when your NASA moon buggy gets launched!


Hehe. Or perhaps just ride the thing with the carbon headset spacer then?  8)

On the weight savings side... I may be replacing my 140g carbon chiner handlebar with something a little more substantial. I'm thinking a ti handlebar after my little accident last week:
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,763

It will add another $100 and 70g to the front of the bike (already heavy with the fork).

Also considering adding $9 LandRover Range Rover lettering to the top side of the down tube, only just using the letters for R O V E R. The boxy cross section of the down tube should give a reasonably flat surface to mount the raised emblems. Although I have a feeling that with extended use the letters might eventually fall off, it would probably look pretty cool!

Here's what I'm thinking:

http://www.amazon.com/Dian-Scratch-resistant-Sticker-Vehicle-logo-Available/dp/B00KQGY6AI/ref=pd_sim_sbs_263_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=413MmhPgbKL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1ZKJCKTG05R5X0SRPHXM
« Last Edit: October 26, 2015, 12:53:16 PM by rvc »