Author Topic: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)  (Read 1961 times)

AlibabyBike

I started this build a little over a year ago, looking at random parts on aliexpress and trying to piece together a bike. I have been very busy with work/school and put this on the backburner. I am close to finished, need advice on some things

2 Problems I am having

Problem #1 is I bought a microspline groupset without knowing what that was, I had to replace the rear hub with a 135mm microspline. i have the QR dropouts in the frame, but the axle is not long enough to reach and screw in. I'm wondering how this QR setup is supposed to work, I tried to ask OG-Evkin but I got this frame on accident (Ordered and lost at DHL for months, DHL claimed total loss, so I was refunded, then it arrived one day). OG Evkin said I shouldn't have a frame from them and refuses to help me. I don't want to buy a thru-axle because I already spent all this $$$ on a new rear hub and re-spoked my wheel with it. I could buy a new rear hub but that is last resort. what am I doing wrong with my setup for a QR axle.

Pictures of issue https://ibb.co/YbLGF2B
https://ibb.co/4ZPPk2G
https://ibb.co/6RwwwwW
https://ibb.co/LrTbt6q
https://ibb.co/gVPmbqh

Problem #2 is the cranks-shaft length is slightly too short (BB52) frame is (BB92), will it be fine? I can't screw that end cap in, see picture attached.
Some but not all parts are listed below. thank you

Pic of Crank Length issue https://ibb.co/0sPcqGf
*************************************************************************************************

FRAME https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000167009897.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.dcd44c4dZMM0Si

REAR HUB https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001930873533.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.dcd44c4dZMM0Si

Bottom Bracket https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ZTTO-BB92-MTB-Bottom-Bracket-BB92-BB90-Road-Bike-Press-Fit-Bottom-Brackets-for-24mm-Crankset/32896601752.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.dcd44c4dZMM0Si

CRANKS https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001810695548.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dtU2wTy

GROUPSET https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001349398933.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dETWjSE

WHEELS https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001621819004.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d3ATm4K

*****************************************************************************************************

FORKS https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000913173908.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d8AKwUc

BRAKES https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000812890310.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dETWjSE

STEMhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001714797103.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dMCGTBo

HANDLEBARS https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32963376676.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dMCGTBo
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 12:13:51 AM by AlibabyBike »



SVChucko

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2021, 12:51:42 AM »
I'm not surprised you're confused. There are too many different bicycle component "standards" floating around today. I've been tinkering with bikes for decades, and I had to study up on current crank and bottom bracket interfaces before I could confidently order parts for my upcoming build. If this is your first build... it's a small miracle these are the only incompatibilities you've found.

#1: Those are through-axle dropouts. The threads on the right side dropout are a dead giveaway. Did the frame come with the 135mm QR dropouts as well? The AliExpress product page claims they are included. If not, OG-Evkin should send them to you, or at least sell you another pair.

#1a: You can swap just the freehub (a.k.a. driver) on many rear hubs to work with different groupsets. Some vendors sell the freehubs separately, as accessories. That way if you bought a Shimano Hyperglide compatible rear hub (as you did), but bought a groupset that requires SRAM XD or Shimano Microspline, you only have to buy the appropriate freehub to make everything work. Swapping freehubs only takes a couple of minutes on some hubs.

These look like the hubs that your wheels were built on: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002776490769.html

And the vendor you bought the wheels from sells Pasak freehubs: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003418633660.html

If that replacement hub you bought is genuine Shimano, you probably won't be able to swap freehubs on it. They want to sell you their current parts, not something you can retrofit.

#1b: I can see how the wheelset product page would confuse you with its claim of 12 speed compatibility. Yes, you can put a 12 speed cassette on a Shimano Hyperglide style hub - but you can't put a Shimano 12 speed cassette on it. The low-end SRAM 12 speed (GX?) groupsets would work, as would any number of Chinese knock-offs.

The most common freehub (a.k.a. driver) standards are Shimano Hyperglide (HG), Shimano Microspline (MS), and SRAM XD. But there's also road Hyperglide and XDR. And then there's Campagnolo (Campy) ... their stuff is completely incompatible with anything else. But that's mostly high-end roadie parts that you'll never see on a mountain bike. That's way too many "standards".

#2: The bottom bracket that came with your crankset is BSA threaded with external bearings. Your frame requires a BB92 press-in BB, with the bearings inside the BB ends. You will need to buy a BB92 bottom bracket. They're not very expensive. You can have a shop install the BB, or you can spend another US$20 or so on a cheap BB press kit.

TL;DR coming up:

TL: I'll just briefly mention the minefield of confusion around cranks and BBs. For cranks there are an absurd number of standards. First was the square taper BB/crank interface, where the BB bearing assembly itself was threaded into the frame. The most common thread size was known as BSA. (It's since become an actual ISO world standard, but everyone still calls it BSA). The BBs lasted forever, but keeping the cranks mounted to them and not cracking was problematic, as MTBs became popular and people wanted to keep their cranks attached after landing jumps.

The next step was cranksets based on a 24mm diameter spindle permanently mounted to one crank arm, and BB bearings outside the frame. Shimano Hollowtech (I and II), FSA MegaExo, SRAM GXP (which uniquely uses a stepped diameter spindle), and probably others. Some of the 24mm cranks and BBs are interchangeable, but not all.

But some found the 24mm spindle too flexy or weak, so the next step was 30mm spindles. I won't list the variations on that theme.

And then SRAM had the bright idea to come up with the DUB crank/BB standard - 28.99mm diameter spindles. Just different enough from 30mm to be aggravating.

If that's confusing, check out the bottom bracket mounting standards. BSA threaded ruled most of the world for a long time. The first 24mm spindle BBs screwed into BSA threads, no problem. Some manufacturing engineer decided that took too much labor, so the press-fit BB was invented. There were a couple of proprietary mounts, but eventually BB86/92, with a 41mm ID, became common. This left adequate room for the bearings for a 24mm crank. But then the 30mm cranks came, and bearings to fit the bigger spindle needed a bigger housing. Enter BB46, with a 46mm ID. And more variations on that theme: BB386, BBright, etc. Then a clever bearing designer came up with slim bearings to mount a 30mm crank in a 41mm housing. And then DUB entered the picture... requiring new BB assemblies, but at least they didn't establish a new BB mounting standard.

That's the short version. The gory details can be found on BikeRadar: https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/the-complete-guide-to-bottom-bracket-standards/

DR: Way too many crank and bottom bracket standards! See why I needed to cram before buying a crankset and BB?

I hope this gets you pointed in the right direction.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 01:31:19 AM by SVChucko »

AlibabyBike

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2021, 01:04:36 AM »
I'm not surprised you're confused. There are too many different "standards" floating around today. I've been tinkering with bikes for decades, and I had to study up on current crank and bottom bracket interfaces before I could confidently order parts for my upcoming build. If this is your first build... it's a small miracle these are the only incompatibilities you've found.

#1: Those are through-axle dropouts. The threads on the right side dropout are a dead giveaway. Did the frame come with the 135mm QR dropouts as well? The AliExpress product page claims they are included. If not, OG-Evkin should send them to you, or at least sell you another pair.

#1a: You can swap the freehub on many aftermarket rear hubs to mount different kinds of cassettes. Some vendors sell the freehubs separately, as accessories. That way if you bought a Hyperglide compatible freehub (as you did), but bought a groupset that requires SRAM XD or Shimano Microspline, you only have to buy the appropriate freehub to make everything work. Swapping freehubs only takes a couple of minutes. They literally pull right off and push back on.

These look like the hubs that your wheels were built on: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002776490769.html

And the vendor you bought the wheels from sells Pasak freehubs: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003418633660.html

If that replacement hub you bought is genuine Shimano, you probably won't be able to swap freehubs on it.

#1b: I can see how the ad for the wheelset would confuse you about 12 speed compatibility. Yes, you can put a 12 speed cassette on a Shimano Hyperglide style hub - but you can't put a _Shimano_ 12 speed cassette on it. The low-end SRAM 12 speed (GX?) groupsets would work, as would any number of Chinese knock-offs. Like I said... too many standards.

#2: The bottom bracket that came with your crankset is BSA threaded with external bearings. Your frame requires a BB92 press-in BB, with the bearings inside the BB ends. You will need to buy a BB92 bottom bracket. They're not very expensive. You can have a shop install the BB, or you can spend another US$20 or so on a cheap BB press kit. Too many standards!

I hope this gets you pointed in the right direction.

Thank you for the reply, this is my first build

#1 The OG Evkin frame came with 6 dropouts, 2x exterior, and 4x interior (QR set, & Thru) I have the QR interior set installed (see photos) and the Thru axle exterior are the only exterior pieces I have and that OGE frame includes. That's what is confusing me, how these exterior Thru dropouts work with the interior QR. If I remove the exterior thru dropouts the carbon dropout frame would be exposed beneath, doesn't seem right.

#1a I asked on a different form if replacing the freehub was possible and all the responses said it wasn't and I would need another hub. I trusted the info and bought another micro spline hub, it wasn't much more expensive than buying a free hub so not a big deal.  I have a shimano microspline freehub on my shimano hub (135mm) I respoked the original rear wheel, I have one of those spoke torque measure devices so I know it's decent, took a while to true the wheel rotating.

#1b I haven't reached the step of mounting the cassette because of all the hub issues and axle issues I was having, I'll see how it goes after I figure out. If I can't figure out how to get this QR to fit, I might as well as switch to a thru axle microspline hub to solve the issue

#2 I have a BB92 press fit installed on the frame, I did buy one. but the crankshaft is like 1cm too short with the new BB92 installed. I attached a photo showing the gap it left. Is it fine to ride on? I got the nice deore cranks so I don't wan't to waste more money on longer cranks (I will if I have to)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 01:17:50 AM by AlibabyBike »

SVChucko

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2021, 01:43:32 AM »
I think you have to remove the outer part of the dropouts. The quick release knurled ends should only contact the metal of the dropout directly. If that's not the case, I don't see how you can make those dropouts work with a QR. I'd suggest politely asking OG-Evkin to explain how it should work, with pictures of a correct installation.

As for the crankset... Shimano is notorious for introducing new "standards" every few years - and for not working with the rest of the industry on their standards. I think you're going to have to find a different crankset designed to fit BB92. The good news is you should be able to sell the new, never ridden Deore crankset pretty quickly.

Good luck.

Snacks

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2021, 09:07:43 AM »
Unfortunately  looks like a new crank is needed with a longer spindle. You need to be able to install the fixing bolt to set preload before tightening down the crank arms

emu26

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2021, 03:37:56 PM »
The metal parts of the dropout, did you screw those on or did they come on the frame already?
You should have had a small parts bag and in that will be the correct dropout parts for a qr rear end, they will be the parts without a hole to put an axle through but a slot for the qr to slide up into.  I have had a couple of china carbon frames and they have all come with the adaptors when a frame is listed as being 142mm / qr compatible.

emu26

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2021, 03:41:16 PM »
These parts


emu26

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2021, 03:46:46 PM »
Just managed to open one of your oversized pics and it looks like you have the correct inside plates mounted but the outside plates should also have slots in them like these ones that come with the BXT frames.  Don't see how you can make a QR work if you have to thread the qr axle through a hole every time.




AlibabyBike

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2021, 04:22:31 PM »
Just managed to open one of your oversized pics and it looks like you have the correct inside plates mounted but the outside plates should also have slots in them like these ones that come with the BXT frames.  Don't see how you can make a QR work if you have to thread the qr axle through a hole every time.

You are correct, like your post above the frame doesn't come with the exterior QR inserts so they are useless. I'm going to probably get a new thru axle and thru hub (microspline), respoke the wheel and use the thru axle. I'll get a set of BB92 cranks and sell my unused parts. I'm trying to make the bike 100% aliexpress for fun. I appreciate everyones comments, I have read them all even if I might not have replied

carbonazza

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2021, 10:53:44 PM »
... Then a clever bearing designer came up with slim bearings to mount a 30mm crank in a 41mm ...
What is particularly clever in these bearings?

SVChucko

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2021, 12:23:36 PM »
What is particularly clever in these bearings?

Mostly that they had to use dual rows of small bearing balls to handle the loads.

carbonazza

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2021, 10:57:11 AM »
Mostly that they had to use dual rows of small bearing balls to handle the loads.
Really ? I didn't know that... what brand provide these bearings ?

SVChucko

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2021, 12:14:27 AM »
The most common size bearing for Dub or 30mm spindle in a PF41 (a.k.a. PF86/PF92) shell in a quick web search is 30mm (ID) x 40mm (OD) x 7mm (W) - and there's no way you can fit two rows of balls in that, unless they're under 3mm diameter!

BBinfinite offers bearings in this size: https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/bearings-abec-7?variant=19203150381115

Wheels Mfg. has a genuine dual-row bearing BB kit for Dub cranks in a PF41 shell. They're custom bearings made by Enduro. The bearing OD is in direct contact with the BB shell: https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-to-29mm-dub-flanged-dual-row-pressfit-86-92-abec-3-bottom-bracket.html

Cane Creek has a similar product in their Hellbender 70 line.

carbonazza

Re: Problems with OG Evkin 29er, Random Parts Build (100% Ali Express)
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2021, 10:15:37 AM »
The most common size bearing for Dub or 30mm spindle in a PF41 (a.k.a. PF86/PF92) shell in a quick web search is 30mm (ID) x 40mm (OD) x 7mm (W) - and there's no way you can fit two rows of balls in that, unless they're under 3mm diameter!

BBinfinite offers bearings in this size: https://www.bbinfinite.com/products/bearings-abec-7?variant=19203150381115

Wheels Mfg. has a genuine dual-row bearing BB kit for Dub cranks in a PF41 shell. They're custom bearings made by Enduro. The bearing OD is in direct contact with the BB shell: https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-to-29mm-dub-flanged-dual-row-pressfit-86-92-abec-3-bottom-bracket.html

Cane Creek has a similar product in their Hellbender 70 line.

Not so cheap options unfortunately  :(