Velobuild GF-002

[bichler.bua]

The gap seems okay.

Per Velobuild, Chris: The gap should be around 1mm
So clearly 2.5mm is too large of a gap. But than the conversation with Chris dropped, no more feedback from them - back at "customer service" when ordering B2C from China...

[carbonazza]

Whatever Chris says, the cover should ideally seat flush with the headtube.
And packed with grease.
Some cover models even have an integrated rubber sleeve.
Otherwise you're left with an open door for rain or cleaning water, that will  kill prematurely the headset bearings.

Aren't there two bearings heights for 1.5".
It is not the first time such kind of picture pops up in the forum

[TidyDinosaur]

Yeah, that gap is way too big. Will ruin the bearings in no time.

[bichler.bua]

Whatever Chris says, the cover should ideally seat flush with the headtube.
And packed with grease.
Some cover models even have an integrated rubber sleeve.
Otherwise you're left with an open door for rain or cleaning water, that will  kill prematurely the headset bearings.

Aren't there two bearings heights for 1.5".
It is not the first time such kind of picture pops up in the forum

Velobuild supplied two identical bearings, both 7mm height. So no risk to swap them, like on Carbonda (6.5mm vs. 7mm)...
The top bearing is properly mounted, confirmed twice and also by measuring the individual dimensions.
As usual, this leaves the Velobuild customer with figuring out the headset adjustment on his own...

[coffeebreak]

Actually, the dust cap cannot sit flush with the head tube because it rotates with the handlebar. So every time you turn your handle it is going to grind against the tube, however smooth or light it is and pretty soon it will eat through the paint and start touching carbon. The gap has to be there, how much you are comfortable with is the question. You can take it to a bike shop and ask for advice, also look at brand name bikes which have ICR and similar dust cap situation. There is a slight gap that remains.

I had about 2mm of gap in exact same spot and no matter what I couldn't get rid of it. I see that you have not assembled the stem/spacer/handle yet. Suggest you to tighten the full assembly as if you are readying the bike to ride and then check the gap again. This was suggested to me by someone. I did that and still had a gap that looked ungainly. After back and forth emails with Chris the matter led to nowhere because that gap seemed okay to him... may be it is okay, who knows? It certainly looked too big to me so I started seeking help here and some other forums. All my "hacks" for this are written here in the past few pages.

Long story short, as per suggestion from a member here I took my bike to someone who has a vertical press type grinder (I don't know what it is called) and after some brainstorming, decided to shave off 0.8mm of material from underneath the dust cap. Not the whole bottom of the dust cap but just the part that rests on C-ring so basically keep the flange of the dust cap intact but remove some material within the flange. The other option was to find dust cap and C-ring combo that is slightly shorter in height, which I was not. It could be there but I wasn't able to find that would be a perfect fit for this frame. That is a problem with Chiner frames because you searching with frame model yields zero results on eBay, Amazon, AliEx or the likes.

I have circled the area in your picture that we grinded from the dust cap. I was advised here to not use any home made remedy, namely Dremel or angle grinder because it is near impossible to shave off material in that spot in perfectly flat manner. Its rather tricky.

You are right about the customer support. If it gets tricky like this, you are on your own. They just stop replying. There was no answer to play in the handlebar (while rocking the bike back and forth) but that is whole another chapter.

To summarize, tighten things to 100% and observe the gap, if its still too much look into dust cap modification OR you can find a dust cap/C-ring that are not as tall as what VB supplies. Its been a while, may be there is some headset that is better than VB's.

[carbonazza]

Actually, the dust cap cannot sit flush with the head tube because it rotates with the handlebar. So every time you turn your handle it is going to grind against the tube...

Until the 1.5" tops were common, the cover was generally flush or grinding as you say.
And there was 0.25mm shims coming with the headset to put some space if needed.
Enough to not touch but not too much to expose the bearings.

[electrolux]

I am considering purchasing this frame however I'm not liking the issues I have seen people have with both the integrated and separate bars Velobuild provides. I've seen too many reports of excessive flex.

I dont really want to go for a seperate stem, integrated just looks too good and is worth the hassle in my book.

Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternative fully integrated bar?

Thanks!

EDIT: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004650603001.html?

Seems like a decent option from a known brand. Their CS-1300 Spacers look to be compatible with the frame too.

[hazzer19]

Finally think I resolved the loose headset issue on my GF-002 with separate bar/stem using the new C ring. Wrote the update on the dedicated thread here: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3683.msg45151.html#msg45151

[bichler.bua]

Actually, the dust cap cannot sit flush with the head tube because it rotates with the handlebar. So every time you turn your handle it is going to grind against the tube, however smooth or light it is and pretty soon it will eat through the paint and start touching carbon. The gap has to be there, how much you are comfortable with is the question. You can take it to a bike shop and ask for advice, also look at brand name bikes which have ICR and similar dust cap situation. There is a slight gap that remains.

I had about 2mm of gap in exact same spot and no matter what I couldn't get rid of it. I see that you have not assembled the stem/spacer/handle yet. Suggest you to tighten the full assembly as if you are readying the bike to ride and then check the gap again. This was suggested to me by someone. I did that and still had a gap that looked ungainly. After back and forth emails with Chris the matter led to nowhere because that gap seemed okay to him... may be it is okay, who knows? It certainly looked too big to me so I started seeking help here and some other forums. All my "hacks" for this are written here in the past few pages.

Long story short, as per suggestion from a member here I took my bike to someone who has a vertical press type grinder (I don't know what it is called) and after some brainstorming, decided to shave off 0.8mm of material from underneath the dust cap. Not the whole bottom of the dust cap but just the part that rests on C-ring so basically keep the flange of the dust cap intact but remove some material within the flange. The other option was to find dust cap and C-ring combo that is slightly shorter in height, which I was not. It could be there but I wasn't able to find that would be a perfect fit for this frame. That is a problem with Chiner frames because you searching with frame model yields zero results on eBay, Amazon, AliEx or the likes.

I have circled the area in your picture that we grinded from the dust cap. I was advised here to not use any home made remedy, namely Dremel or angle grinder because it is near impossible to shave off material in that spot in perfectly flat manner. Its rather tricky.

You are right about the customer support. If it gets tricky like this, you are on your own. They just stop replying. There was no answer to play in the handlebar (while rocking the bike back and forth) but that is whole another chapter.

To summarize, tighten things to 100% and observe the gap, if its still too much look into dust cap modification OR you can find a dust cap/C-ring that are not as tall as what VB supplies. Its been a while, may be there is some headset that is better than VB's.

Good input, appreciate it - thanks to everybody. Current status: it is hard to cut the fork to length when the tolerances are not finally sorted.
I opted for a Vision / FSA SMR stem since I do not trust the VeloBuild stem & top cap design when it comes to removing play of the headset.
Bought this spacer set from AliExpress:
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003797505110.html
created a wooden jig to have a plain offset, used my routing machine to take off material from the top, leaving pins to interface to the FSA spacers.
Filled the bottom with epoxy and removed material, again, so the compression ring recesses into the cover.
Will now cut the fork to length and keep you updated...

[ENEP]

Curious if anybody has built up a GF002 with fully internal routing and integrated handelbar while using mechanical shifting and mechanical disc brakes?
Meaning four cables fully internally routed. Is it possible with good braking results, compared to rim brake?
(I don't mind spending a little extra cash for suitable wires/hoses or more time while building)

Thank you

[coffeebreak]

Curious if anybody has built up a GF002 with fully internal routing and integrated handelbar while using mechanical shifting and mechanical disc brakes?
Meaning four cables fully internally routed. Is it possible with good braking results, compared to rim brake?

I did this. Mechanical Ultegra R8000/6800 and mechanical disc brake (Onirii BR005). It took me a while to figure out rotor and pad combo for optimal performance but now it's really good. I can lock the wheels in emergency. The levers aren't as snappy as with an external routed rim brake bike but it is good enough considering crazy bends in the bar and stem. I have VB's separate stem and bar. So far so good.

[s3si1u]

Curious if anybody has built up a GF002 with fully internal routing and integrated handelbar while using mechanical shifting and mechanical disc brakes?
Meaning four cables fully internally routed. Is it possible with good braking results, compared to rim brake?
(I don't mind spending a little extra cash for suitable wires/hoses or more time while building)

Thank you

I originally built up my 177 this way with the same handlebar, Juin Techs and Sensah Empire. 10/10 don't recommend mechanical disc brakes with fully internal routing, but YMMV. Yes, you can get it to "good enough", which is totally dependent on your style of riding, but that still isn't like full hydro or even good rim brakes and I was never quite comfortable enough on downhills and tight turns at speed. One scare/mild accident was more than enough for me to decide hydraulic braking is the way for discs.
Another bit I can share is I had a lot of difficulty running 4 housings through the bars, I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be with compressionless housing.
I also did the math, when I stopped to think about the cost of something like Sensah shifters, Juin Tech calipers, rotors, fancy housing, high quality brake cables, tons of troubleshooting, etc....just a bit more money would have gotten me a good pair of hydraulic SRAM or Shimano shifters/brakes that are mostly plug and play.  Bleeding is not hard at all. Also considering the steadily dropping cost of LTwoo stuff, I'm not so sure there's much upside to cable disc brakes on fully internal/performance/aero bikes anymore.

[coffeebreak]

Depends a lot on the frame, especially on the rear triangle. GF002 doesn't have extreme angle towards the brake caliper once cable exits the port. There's a slight curve but that's it.

[s3si1u]

Depends a lot on the frame, especially on the rear triangle. GF002 doesn't have extreme angle towards the brake caliper once cable exits the port. There's a slight curve but that's it.

I'd argue the many tight bends and potential forcing of the brake housings through the handlebars and then the headtube has a much more adverse effect on braking performance than the brake cable exit for a fully internal frame

[ENEP]

I originally built up my 177 this way with the same handlebar, Juin Techs and Sensah Empire. 10/10 don't recommend mechanical disc brakes with fully internal routing, but YMMV. Yes, you can get it to "good enough", which is totally dependent on your style of riding, but that still isn't like full hydro or even good rim brakes and I was never quite comfortable enough on downhills and tight turns at speed. One scare/mild accident was more than enough for me to decide hydraulic braking is the way for discs.
Another bit I can share is I had a lot of difficulty running 4 housings through the bars, I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be with compressionless housing.
I also did the math, when I stopped to think about the cost of something like Sensah shifters, Juin Tech calipers, rotors, fancy housing, high quality brake cables, tons of troubleshooting, etc....just a bit more money would have gotten me a good pair of hydraulic SRAM or Shimano shifters/brakes that are mostly plug and play.  Bleeding is not hard at all. Also considering the steadily dropping cost of LTwoo stuff, I'm not so sure there's much upside to cable disc brakes on fully internal/performance/aero bikes anymore.

Thank you greatly for your comment and insights.
I already have a complete Shimano 105 R7000 groupset, upgrading it to hydraulic with new 105 shifters and calipers would cost me around 450€, while a set of Juin Tech F1 with rotors would only cost me 160€. Quite the difference in price. However the braking performance should of course not be neglected. I live in a area which is very flat and my performance/speeds are quite average so i'm guessing that mechanical disc brakes might be "good enough", most likely better or similiar to current Shimano R7000 105 rim brakes.

I don't mind the hassle/complexity of building and servicing as I really love the looks of integrated handelbars and fully internal routed cables but need to decide if it's worth it regarding braking performance.