Author Topic: Groupset News  (Read 69323 times)

raisinberry777

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #270 on: September 09, 2023, 03:10:59 PM »
Odd to see a maximum cassette size of 46 teeth rather than the 50-52 teeth that is common on many 12 speed 1-by cassettes. I expect the ideal match will be the Microspline 10-45 cassette

jonathanf2

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #271 on: September 09, 2023, 05:48:16 PM »
Odd to see a maximum cassette size of 46 teeth rather than the 50-52 teeth that is common on many 12 speed 1-by cassettes. I expect the ideal match will be the Microspline 10-45 cassette

I don't really see the point going electronic for 1x gravel. I think I'm more excited for the mechanical  Shimano GRX 812 12 speed RD. The 1x derailleur does 10-51t in-spec. If it as the same pull ratio as 11 speed GRX, you should be able to run that on both 10/11 speed GRX.

Maden

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #272 on: September 09, 2023, 08:58:01 PM »
Any info on sensah having an 11 or 10 speed version? Would be a huge miss if they don't imo.

Just spotted Sensah Empire HRD 11 speed for sale on Aliexpress. Price is $249 for shifters, disc brake calipers, and derailleurs. Looks promising!

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805841249421.html

raisinberry777

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #273 on: September 09, 2023, 11:22:53 PM »
I don't really see the point going electronic for 1x gravel. I think I'm more excited for the mechanical  Shimano GRX 812 12 speed RD. The 1x derailleur does 10-51t in-spec. If it as the same pull ratio as 11 speed GRX, you should be able to run that on both 10/11 speed GRX.

Well, to my mind the theory is that it should be relatively cheap compared to mechanical - there's one less shifter and one less derailleur to deal with. That said, the mechanical tiers cost the same amount (that is, GR9 = R9 in cost on AliExpress).

raisinberry777

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #274 on: September 09, 2023, 11:41:08 PM »
Just spotted Sensah Empire HRD 11 speed for sale on Aliexpress. Price is $249 for shifters, disc brake calipers, and derailleurs. Looks promising!

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805841249421.html

Thanks for that - I've done a little groupset comparison for anyone interested in the current state of the market for hydraulic groupsets. I have used official store prices for Ltwoo and Sensah. All items are shifters, brakes and derailleurs unless indicated otherwise. All prices include postage where relevant (to Australia - not sure how it differs for other markets).

Mechanical

Code: [Select]
| Groupset Name          | USD  | Link                                                      |
|------------------------|------|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Ltwoo R7               | 240  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005708638779.html     |
| Ltwoo R9               | 265  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005097651417.html     |
| Ltwoo RX               | 287  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005035653680.html     |
|------------------------|------|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Sensah Empire HRD      | 247  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006027398876.html     |
| Sensah Empire Pro HRD  | 297  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005961758310.html     |
|------------------------|------|-----------------------------------------------------------|
| Shimano Tiagra 4700    | 306  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005767481889.html     |
| Shimano 105 R7020      | 430  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003723174953.html     |
| Shimano Ultegra R8020  | 530  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003723174953.html     |

Electronic:

Code: [Select]
| Groupset Name         | USD  | Link                                                                                                                   | Notes          |
|-----------------------|------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------|
| Ltwoo ER9             | 514  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005666489670.html                                                                  |                |
| Ltwoo ERX             | 656  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005666489670.html                                                                  |                |
|-----------------------|------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------|
| Shimano 105 R7170     | 767  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005766195381.html                                                                  |                |
| Shimano Ultegra R8170 | 1435 | https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-Ultegra-Di2-R8170-Complete-Group-2x12-Crank-Length-1725-mm-50-34T-SPECIAL-OFFER            | Full set       |
|-----------------------|------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|----------------|
| Sram Rival 2x         | 697  | https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-Rival-eTap-AXS-Road-Disc-HRD-Flat-Mount-Road-Upgrade-Kit-2x12                                 |                |
| Sram Force D1 2x      | 742  | https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-Force-eTap-AXS-Road-Disc-HRD-Flat-Mount-Upgrade-Kit-2-speed                                   | With rotor     |


Gravel:
Code: [Select]
| Groupset Name         | USD  | Link                                                                                                                   | Notes           |
|-----------------------|------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------|
| Ltwoo GR7 1x10        | 208  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005754630103.html                                                                  |                 |
| Ltwoo GR9 1x11        | 265  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005148057429.html                                                                  |                 |
| Ltwoo GRT 1x12        | 287  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005048297285.html                                                                  |                 |
|-----------------------|------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------|
| SRAM Apex XPLR 1x12   | 554  | Multiple links, see notes                                                                                              | Parts separate  |
| SRAM Rival XPLR 1x12  | 770  | https://r2-bike.com/SRAM-Mullet-Rival-eTap-GX-Eagle-AXS-Gravel-Upgrade-Kit_1                                           |                 |
|-----------------------|------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------|
| Shimano GRX 400 2x10  | 346  | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005354064020.html                                                                  |                 |
| Shimano GRX 810 1x11  | 789  | https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-GRX-Gravel-Group-RX810-Hydraulic-Disc-Brakes-1x11-42-Teeth                                 | Full set        |
| Shimano GRX 820 1x12  | 1122 | https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-GRX-820-Complete-Group-1x12-Crank-1725-mm-42-Teeth                                         | Full set        |



FabioZang

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #275 on: September 12, 2023, 09:08:04 AM »
The hydraulic calipers also look slightly different. Also I'm curious why LTwoo continues to use this adapter solution for their hydraulic calipers? I'm just wondering what patent are they avoiding using this design?

It is possible that L-twoo is trying to avoid any potential patent issues, considering that the paperback base belongs to Shimano's patent.
This time, L-twoo has also redesigned the caliper and promotes it as an integrated caliper.

可能是因为L-twoo在试图避免任何可能潜在的专利问题,毕竟平装底座是属于禧玛诺的专利。
这一次L-twoo还重新设计了卡钳,宣传称为一体式卡钳。

FabioZang

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #276 on: September 12, 2023, 09:16:05 AM »
Besides the new gravel RD, the shift buttons and brake calipers have also been updated

obviously the usual caveats go with anything new they release, but the pace of iterations is really incredible

just a couple months ago the gravel RD looked like this


bonus, footage of early eRX prototype

I was amazed to see a picture from Baidu Tieba on a forum located across the ocean, and it was even a picture I personally uploaded. The feeling is truly extraordinary.
Are you perhaps a member of Tieba as well?

我竟然能在一个远在大洋彼岸的论坛里看到来自百度贴吧的图片,甚至还是我自己亲自上传的,这样的感觉真的很奇妙
你不会还是贴吧吧友吧?

kbernstein

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #277 on: September 12, 2023, 10:50:45 AM »
Do you  work for LTwoo Fabio?

FabioZang

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #278 on: September 12, 2023, 10:01:56 PM »
Do you  work for LTwoo Fabio?
No, I only know the staff of L-twoo, so I have the opportunity to see news and pictures of engineering prototypes. Also L-twoo doesn't mind the leak of such pictures. Just like StiffWeenies who posted earlier, we are all ordinary bicycle enthusiasts. The only difference is that we are Chinese, so we can access this kind of news earlier.
No,我只是和蓝图的工作人员认识,因此可以有机会看到工程样机的消息和图片,蓝图也并不介意这类图片的流出。就像前面发帖的StiffWeenies一样,我们都是普通的自行车玩家。只不过因为我们是中国人所以可以更早接触到这类新闻。

coffeebreak

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #279 on: September 12, 2023, 10:06:25 PM »
I have read your name somewhere else before but can't recall where exactly. May be weighweenies? In any case, glad you are here and hopefully providing more insider tidbits like SW.

FabioZang

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #280 on: September 12, 2023, 10:22:52 PM »
Perhaps it was on the forum ridinggravel or on Reddit. I use the ID "@烂薄荷_" within China, which means "rotten mint". Although I'm not as professional as the OP, and my comments might be more subjective, I am indeed willing to share these fresh news with everyone.
也许是Gravel论坛或者是reddit。我在国内用“烂薄荷_"这个ID,意思是”腐烂的薄荷“。不过我没有OP那么专业,说的话可能也会更加主观,但是我确实乐意向大家分享这些新鲜的消息。
I have read your name somewhere else before but can't recall where exactly. May be weighweenies? In any case, glad you are here and hopefully providing more insider tidbits like SW.

FabioZang

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #281 on: September 13, 2023, 01:12:41 AM »
I would like to share some information I have about the L-twoo eGR with everyone. The basic performance parameters, I believe, do not need further elaboration as they are clearly stated on the official L-twoo website(https://www.ltwoo.com/). However, the technical manual may not have been translated into English yet.

The comprehensive distribution of the eGR to the consumer market is likely to wait until early next year, and it may take even longer for overseas users. This could be due to the logic that L-twoo needs to have enough OEM orders (orders from complete bicycle manufacturers, such as XDS or TRINX) before being able to cater to retail consumers.

The eGR does not differentiate between aluminum alloy and carbon fiber versions. eGR is the only name, with an aluminum alloy handlebar and a carbon fiber rear derailleur cage.

The eGR's dual-control levers are not exactly the same as the eRX/eR9. L-twoo has modified the button shape of the eGR, making it larger and easier to touch. They have also improved the button feel, enhanced the button's travel, and improved tactile feedback.
(Here is a video showing the feel):
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1K94y1x7nu/?share_source=copy_web&vd_source=6df32e378224c6b777e3a0681a05b579

From the renderings and weight analysis, it appears that the left handlebar of the eGR still has buttons and can control the rear derailleur.

[One speculation: Perhaps both the left and right handlebars of the eGR can simultaneously control the same rear derailleur, and I hope there will be an app for customizing the buttons. This would make the eGR have a very interesting shifting logic, such as using the left hand exclusively for downshifting, with the slim buttons on the right for upshifting and the larger buttons for downshifting.]

In the future, L-twoo may continue to develop derivative products for the eGR, such as an electronic dropper seatpost. This could be the reason why the left hand of the eGR still retains its buttons.

L-twoo's ambitions go beyond this, and in the near future, they may release a completely wireless MTB electronic shifter, similar to what Wheel-Top and SRAM have done.

我想向大家分享一下我所掌握的有关L-twoo eGR的一些消息
基本的性能参数我觉得不需要再赘述了,全新的L-twoo官网上都有写明,可能只有技术手册还没有被翻译成英文
eGR对C端的全面铺货大概率要等到明年年初,而对于海外用户来说可能需要更久
这其中的逻辑可能是因为L-twoo需要先拥有足够的OE订单(来自整车厂的订单,例如xds、千里达之类的),才有能力去应对零售消费者
eGR不区分铝合金/碳纤维版本。eGR就是唯一的名称,其手柄为铝合金材质,后拨链器笼为碳纤维材质
eGR和eRX/eR9的双控手柄并非完全一样,L-twoo修改了eGR的按键形状,让它变得更大更容易触摸,同时还改进了按键手感,加强了按键的行程和触感反馈
从渲染图和重量分析,eGR的左手柄依然有按键,并且可以对后拨进行控制
【一种猜测:也许eGR的左右手柄都可以同时控制同一个后拨链器,并且我希望可以用app对按键进行自定义,这样就会让eGR有非常有趣的变速逻辑(例如左手全部是降档,而右手的细长按键用来升档,粗大按键用来降档)】
L-twoo在未来可能会继续开发eGR的衍生产品,例如电子升降座杆,这可能是eGR左手没有被取消按键的原因
L-twoo的野心不止于此,在不久的将来应该会发布纯无线的MTB电子变速器,就像Wheel-Top和SRAM做的那样

BalticSea

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #282 on: September 13, 2023, 07:32:08 AM »
Regarding Sensah hydraulic grouupset: you can buy just the shifters with brake calipers https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLZTy1u, which opens interesting options when paired with either roador gravel/mtb derailleurs. Yes, there's gravel ready Ltwoo groupset, but I am not aure about their mechanical shifters ergonomics -  I have rim brake Ltwoo groupset and the thumb shifter is pain in the anus to reach
« Last Edit: September 13, 2023, 07:37:23 AM by BalticSea »

mirphak

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #283 on: September 13, 2023, 08:28:50 AM »
I indeed think keeping the left buttons for various purposes (front derrailleur which some gravel people prefer over 1x systems, dropper post, down/up-shifting like in sram, converting from gravel to road and viceversa just changing derrailleurs, chainring and wheels, etc etc) is the way to go. Eager to see it working :)

00Garza

Re: Groupset News
« Reply #284 on: September 13, 2023, 09:05:25 AM »
Regarding Sensah hydraulic grouupset: you can buy just the shifters with brake calipers https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLZTy1u, which opens interesting options when paired with either roador gravel/mtb derailleurs. Yes, there's gravel ready Ltwoo groupset, but I am not aure about their mechanical shifters ergonomics -  I have rim brake Ltwoo groupset and the thumb shifter is pain in the anus to reach

Ltwoo mechanical and hyrdro thumb levers are vastly different fyi. I can easily reach thumb shifter from hoods or drops.