New Lexon spirit

[RDY]

RDY, what would you recommend for 120-130  rear travel? I am browsing up and down the forum (new to this) and unsure of quality.. thanks.

Probably the FM936 with the new 120mm rear option that will be offered soon.  Run it with a Mara IL shock and 130mm fork - maybe the new Ohlins one if you can afford it.

[Tijoe]

I am becoming captivated with the Spirit frame. 

I have been researching more about this frame and have started communications with Lexon.    It appears that the Scott Spark has a head tube angle of 66.5 degrees, with ZS56/28.6/40.0 Integrated cable headset cups.  One can install zero offset cups or keep the cups that allow one to rotate them for a either a HT angle of 65.8 or 67.2.

Head tube differences:

The Spirit has a fixed HT angle of 67.2 degrees that uses a IS52/IS52 integrated cable Headset. 

The Spark uses what appears to be a custom Acros angle headset: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/angle-headset-1-52/52?number=310.52.591F-HT110AM&c=46
(These headsets have protruding pins in them that allow them to be flipped 180 degrees.  The Scott Spark has little notches machined into the Head tube portion of the frame to clock/orient the cups and hold them in place.)

I asked Lexon if their Spirit has this feature/provision, and if not, can they add the grooves.

Rear shock differences.   
I believe it is known that the Scott Spark uses 2 versions of custom Nude5 shocks with a mid position set point.  The Spirit uses either the Rockshox Deluxe Selected+, or Rockshox Deluxe RLC3 with remote.  Both of these shocks have their air fill port located coming out the side of the end of the shock.  This makes one have to remove the shock in order to add air/adjust the pressure. (Not fun to do if you are out in the field.)

Frame differences. 
Scott uses a BB92 bottom bracket and the Spirit uses a BSA73.
There are some very slight differences in the front section of the frame geometries, resulting in slight wheelbase differences.  Scott Large = 1190, lexon Large = 1181.

I can't predict if these small difference would affect handling or the ride.  I suspect the Spirit using T800/T1000 fibers would have more of an impact versus Scott's use of carbon nanotube reinforced epoxy resin and T1000G fiber.

[RDY]

I'd really strongly advise not going for that frame.  You're theorycrafting their marketing spiel about what looks like a not particularly good copy of a fairly novel Scott design.  The performance of the Scott isn't extraordinary - the USP is the 'clean' look and hidden shock.  For the Spirit, I think you can safely assume it won't perform as well as the Scott, and may have some nasty surprises.  Plus it costs the moon as far as Chinese MTB frames are concerned.  As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is ....

[Tijoe]

I have to comment that I do not completely agree with your advise.   Here's why.

1. Regarding costs:  Most of the other comparable recommended frames I recently reviewed in the $500 to $700 USD price range do not include the shock and remote.  The supplied RockShox Deluxe Nude RLC3, with remote, costs around $500 these days.($520 retail.)  (This puts the $1,289.99 price down to a $790+- price.
This is only around $100 more than other decent carbon frames being sold on Aliexpress.
2.  The stated weight of a 15.5" frame is 2500 grams.  Take off the 500 grams for the shock and you have around a 2000 gram frame.   Not too shabby of a frame weight.  Perhaps worth an extra $100?
3.  Your comment on the performance of the frame is only speculative.  I don't disagree that there is a slight risk that it could turn out to be a piece of garbage,  but looking at the frame geometry, I would guess it should handle at least 90% the same as the Scott, and I doubt there will be any "surprises". 
4.  Overall, the reviews of the Gen 4 Scott Spark 4 have been positive.  I have a friend in Seattle area who purchased a New integrated shock spark.  I was able to test ride it.  I was impressed with it overall.  I liked it better than my aged and beat to death Kona Process.
Will the Lexon clone perform similar to the original?   Hard to tell unless a few of us suckers step up and take one for the team.
(We need a good review of a built up one to get a better realistic feel for how it performs.)

If I eventually purchase one, it wont be until early next year.  I already have another build I am working on.

 

[Tijoe]

Posting a few more details.

Looking at the Lexon store filtered under mtb frames,  Lexon has 3 ads up for the Spirit frame.   

-  Total listed as being sold = 27.   (Not very many sold , and not really a good sign...)
-  Reviews Posted:   9 total.    3.2 star averaged rating.  (About 32% 5 star)

- Most common positive comment is that everyone states that the frame itself appears to be of high quality and finish.

-  Most common negative comment is regarding the use of a shock that has the air fill port on the side, and one cannot access it without removing the shock to add air pressure.  This problem is stated on their pages.   (I wonder if one could purchase the frame without shock and install the official Rockshox Scott Nude 5 shock?)  Since the shock used on the new spark is "Scott specific" Lexon probably can't purchase the shock they really should be supplying.

-   There are a couple of complaints that the bearing and bushings used on the main pivot has problems, but appears that Lexon has worked with those buyers to correct.

Based on the listed problems,  I will sit on the fence for a while before deciding how much I really like this frame.  (At least Lexon has not deleted all of the negative comments.  Helps them out a little in my mind even though it lessens the probability of making more sales.)

[QuentinLL]

I totaly agree with RDY.

@Tijoe : sidluxe ultimate is 250 $ and 280g, not 500 $ / 500g.
The lexon is overpriced and you probably have a better ride and much cheaper bike with a classic kinematic chiner.

[chetosmachine]

Following the pictures and comments on aliexpress, the shock included is a plain deluxe, not a NUDE version; and the weight is way higher than the 2500g stated.
The aestetics are amazing though!

[Tijoe]

I totaly agree with RDY.

@Tijoe : sidluxe ultimate is 250 $ and 280g, not 500 $ / 500g.
The lexon is overpriced and you probably have a better ride and much cheaper bike with a classic kinematic chiner.

See Pics attached.   The option with the remote is a Nude Version of the shock.  I confirmed this with Lexon as well.

(But not the Scott special Nude 5 version, with mid set point.)

[Tijoe]

Following the pictures and comments on aliexpress, the shock included is a plain deluxe, not a NUDE version; and the weight is way higher than the 2500g stated.
The aestetics are amazing though!

The one review that is posted indicates the frame weighs almost 3kg.  But the poster later on states that the pic of the scale includes a chain, and rear derailleur.  Another pic of the frame on the scale shows that the frame also has a rear caliper, internal routed cables and a front hydraulic lever.  I wonder how much weight that adds?.  

I read the weigh of the shock ast 500 grams. Turns out that is the total "package" weight.  Other listings indicate around 230 grams.  That does put about another 10 oz back onto the frame.  (Ouch!)   

Does make one wonder why a frame so similar to the Scott Spark would have this large of a weight gap...

[emu26]

The one review that is posted indicates the frame weighs almost 3kg.  But the poster later on states that the pic of the scale includes a chain, and rear derailleur.  Another pic of the frame on the scale shows that the frame also has a rear caliper, internal routed cables and a front hydraulic lever.  I wonder how much weight that adds?.  

I read the weigh of the shock ast 500 grams. Turns out that is the total "package" weight.  Other listings indicate around 230 grams.  That does put about another 10 oz back onto the frame.  (Ouch!)   

Does make one wonder why a frame so similar to the Scott Spark would have this large of a weight gap...

Because it's not a Scott Spark

[federic000]

I would not get into the weights discussions for these OEM frames, last Scott spark frame of 2023 with HMX-SL carbon is declared for 1870grams with Ammo and Hardware!
the slightly less precious HMX is given from 1990grams which is impressive as well. so what's actually the purpose of this discussion? if you like the clone just take it but don't expect it's the real thing...

[FullCarbonAlchemist]

The weight difference is going to be in materials (that nanotube reinforced resin in the Scott is a big advantage over regular carbon-resin matrixes) and the fact that the layup is likely a lot less optimized, partly as a result of the materials difference. I bet the pivot bearings and hardware are also a little heavier.

Personally I’d like to try one of these out, just to see what it’s like; I’ll never put down the money for a branded XC bike on this level and it would be neat to experience this particular suspension system first hand. Wouldn’t expect it to be that special in terms of kinematics but the low slung center of gravity would probably be nice, and it does seem inherently pretty stiff.

[Tijoe]

I am sure we are all aware that Scott is making several variations of the 2022+ Spark.  The top-end frame, is the only one that uses nanotube reinforced resin.  HMX-SL version where the Frame and fork retails for $6500 and the frame/shock weight around 1870 grams.   The other versions use lower tensile strength carbon fiber than the Spirit's T800/T1000 fibers.  (As stated earlier, RC weighs about 1990 grams with shock, and costs around $5K.)

I guess that from my perspective, spending around $1500 on this frame (with delivery) could be a good experiment.  What if it only handles around 80% as good as a Spark.  Still could end up handling well, and its weight isn't that bad. (These days in the bicycle world, $1500 isn't much money.)

The FM936 would cost less money and is proven, likely heavier than the Spirit. but it would be fun to try something new.   
I am sure it would be at least as capable as my 2017 Kona process, and end up weighing 5 pounds less.

[RDY]

I highly doubt the FM936 in either standard or SL layup is heavier than the Spirit.

[carbonazza]

I highly doubt the FM936 in either standard or SL layup is heavier than the Spirit.

Isn't the FM909 even lighter ?