IIIPRO E4 4-Piston Hydraulic MTB Brakes - Are they to be trusted?

[Tijoe]

New IIIPro brakes R2X4 - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809230222580.html
It looks like the levers have several changes, including an olive free fitting. I can't tell if there were any caliper end changes.

They look more like the Peerage levers

[Fat Larry]

New IIIPro brakes R2X4 - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809230222580.html
It looks like the levers have several changes, including an olive free fitting. I can't tell if there were any caliper end changes.

Those levers are really attractive.

Anyone tried these? They look like a closer to a hope copy. Slightly different looking callipers.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009643699813.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.673238daYpXV3g&mp=1

Frog Wake, great name.

There's quite a few different versions now https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008833501130.html?

Looking for brakes at the moment but the reports of leaking seals is pretty off putting.

[Tijoe]

Have fellow forum members been reading the thread about the Magene brake failure?  In the recent Magene injured person thread, it "appears" that the design isn't capable of stopping a bike when the pads are worn down to metal. 

Has anyone with IIIPro brakes installed, worn their pads down below 1/4 thickness, or to the metal on their IIIPro calipers?

After reading the Magene failure thread, I started reflecting on the 3 caliper failures I have had on my IIIPros, and wonder if the IIIPros  levers/calipers could have a similar deficiency.   In hindsight, the 3 calipers lost braking force when the pads still had about 1/4 pad thickness left, as well as they started to leak around the seals.

Since then, I have installed my 2 remaining failed calipers (One has had new Hope 16mm seals installed and is back in service.) on a bench front-brake set up I put together.   After these calipers had new pads installed, and the pistons retracted back into the calibers, and they sat for a few weeks,  The 2 calipers are working again with the original seals and no leaks.

Just fishing to see if anyone else has had similar experiences, and what they have done to investigate.

[Fat Larry]

Appreciate hearing about your long term experience them. Good to know the callipers can be restored if they start leaking.

I'm still on the fence about picking some up but if they can be fairly easily fixed if they start leaking its not that much of an issue, especially if they perform at a high level while costing what they do.

Seems like every manufacturers brakes have some issue, shimanos get swollen sticky piston seals with the m8000 levers, srams use dot and the codes are renowned as being weak, maguras plastic levers have a reputation for breaking etc.

The new ONIRII IIIPRO R2X4 and R3X4 both have the Fibeax oliveless system that requires a special barb and could either be a good thing or another point of failure.

Which Magene thread are you referring to?

[Tijoe]

Not to long a read, but some interesting  information spread out in this thread.

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html

I am wondering if the Peerage, or new Frog Wake, being discussed, might have a larger fluid reservoirs and a stroke travel/capacity versus the E4s that are originally discussed in this thread.

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809457385061.html

[Fat Larry]

I'm still looking around.. ugh Ali is such a time sink.

Anyway I saw a review on a listing for the new models r2x4 and r3x4 with the oliveless fibrex connection. Apparently it leaks.. quelle surprise.

Not to long a read, but some interesting  information spread out in this thread.

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html

I am wondering if the Peerage, or new Frog Wake, being discussed, might have a larger fluid reservoirs and a stroke travel/capacity versus the E4s that are originally discussed in this thread.

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809457385061.html

The do look interesting. The callipers are look different to the standard IIIPro/zrace e4s and the levers look like they have more machining work put into them.

[FredDias2018]

Have fellow forum members been reading the thread about the Magene brake failure?  In the recent Magene injured person thread, it "appears" that the design isn't capable of stopping a bike when the pads are worn down to metal. 

Has anyone with IIIPro brakes installed, worn their pads down below 1/4 thickness, or to the metal on their IIIPro calipers?

After reading the Magene failure thread, I started reflecting on the 3 caliper failures I have had on my IIIPros, and wonder if the IIIPros  levers/calipers could have a similar deficiency.   In hindsight, the 3 calipers lost braking force when the pads still had about 1/4 pad thickness left, as well as they started to leak around the seals.

Since then, I have installed my 2 remaining failed calipers (One has had new Hope 16mm seals installed and is back in service.) on a bench front-brake set up I put together.   After these calipers had new pads installed, and the pistons retracted back into the calibers, and they sat for a few weeks,  The 2 calipers are working again with the original seals and no leaks.

Just fishing to see if anyone else has had similar experiences, and what they have done to investigate.

hi, just wondering, what is the thickness of the rotors you're using? because on the 4 piston hope clones, the spacing between the two inner sides of the caliper is unusually wide at 11.6mm instead of the standard 11mm for most brands. these ones are from frogwake, but the caliper shell is the same as IIIPro/Zrace, the only differences are the pistons and caps. all of these shells use the same functional dimensions with only minor differences, like bleed ports, and banjos. As such, it's reasonable to assume that they would need a ~0.6mm thicker rotor than a standard caliper, which we can assume uses a 1.8mm rotor with 11mm of spacing. from what i've seen and experienced, these always have a very long dead stroke out of the box (which you can eliminate by pumping the brakes without a rotor to bring the pistons in), which could be because of that extra space. as such, i'd run these with 2.3mm rotors only, with a thinner rotor the pistons are very far out, and have little support. i think that's why they leak

[Tijoe]

FredDias2018.  Nice to see others looking into the versatility of these Chinese 4-piston calipers.

For a IIIPro E4 caliper, I have all of the critical dimensions measured and hand sketched out in a rough drawing.    Base on the first caliper measurements I took,  my number crunching supported that the IIIPro caliper is designed to run a 1.8mm wide rotor.   Except, other calipers I measured do have a wider "B" width.

Then things became more complicated.   I have on hand, 4 sets of IIIPro E4 brakes (8calipers) a new set of Hope Tech Duo E4 lever and calipers, a new set of Frog Wake brakes, and the new Wheeltop 4-piston calipers.

I took your picture of your caliper and added "A" and "B" to your measurements.

Then I measured these 2 dimensions on some of the calipers I have off of bikes right now.

Brand                 A                      B
hope Tech Duo    3.6mm         11.75mm
IIIPro  E4  (1)     4.0mm            11.2mm
IIIPro  E4  (2)     4.0mm            11.36mm
IIIPro  E4  (3)     4.0mm            11.38mm
IIIPro  E4  (4)     4.0mm            11.5mm
Frog Wake         4.25mm           11.6mm
Wheeltop            4mm               11.5mm

I need to make a better drawing of the housing bores and dimensions I measured so everyone can see how the measurements relate to rotor thickness and pad clearances.

I will be using a 2.3mm wide rotor with the Hope Tech E4 calipers, but based on my current "gut feel", I think that these Chinese versions of the E-4 based calipers could run 2.0mm wide rotors, but 2.3mm wide rotors might lead to the pads rubbing, and make the calipers very sensitive to any non-parallelism between the pads and rotor.   

As soon as some Dot5.1 compatible 16mm Square o-rings arrive, I will attempt to get a IIIPro caliper to work and fit one on a 2.3 rotor and use the Hope Tech lever
to actuate a IIIPro E4 caliper filled with DOT 5.1 fluid.

[FredDias2018]

FredDias2018.  Nice to see others looking into the versatility of these Chinese 4-piston calipers.

For a IIIPro E4 caliper, I have all of the critical dimensions measured and hand sketched out in a rough drawing.    Base on the first caliper measurements I took,  my number crunching supported that the IIIPro caliper is designed to run a 1.8mm wide rotor.   Except, other calipers I measured do have a wider "B" width.

Then things became more complicated.   I have on hand, 4 sets of IIIPro E4 brakes (8calipers) a new set of Hope Tech Duo E4 lever and calipers, a new set of Frog Wake brakes, and the new Wheeltop 4-piston calipers.

I took your picture of your caliper and added "A" and "B" to your measurements.

Then I measured these 2 dimensions on some of the calipers I have off of bikes right now.

Brand                 A                      B
hope Tech Duo    3.6mm         11.75mm
IIIPro  E4  (1)     4.0mm            11.2mm
IIIPro  E4  (2)     4.0mm            11.36mm
IIIPro  E4  (3)     4.0mm            11.38mm
IIIPro  E4  (4)     4.0mm            11.5mm
Frog Wake         4.25mm           11.6mm
Wheeltop            4mm               11.5mm

I need to make a better drawing of the housing bores and dimensions I measured so everyone can see how the measurements relate to rotor thickness and pad clearances.

I will be using a 2.3mm wide rotor with the Hope Tech E4 calipers, but based on my current "gut feel", I think that these Chinese versions of the E-4 based calipers could run 2.0mm wide rotors, but 2.3mm wide rotors might lead to the pads rubbing, and make the calipers very sensitive to any non-parallelism between the pads and rotor.   

As soon as some Dot5.1 compatible 16mm Square o-rings arrive, I will attempt to get a IIIPro caliper to work and fit one on a 2.3 rotor and use the Hope Tech lever
to actuate a IIIPro E4 caliper filled with DOT 5.1 fluid.

interesting. also, will you get a brand new hope tech lever? because if it comes dry from the factory you can just run them on mineral oil with zero problems, in fact, i've found that it even seems to make it last longer because of the seals and stuff

[Tijoe]

interesting. also, will you get a brand new hope tech lever? because if it comes dry from the factory you can just run them on mineral oil with zero problems, in fact, i've found that it even seems to make it last longer because of the seals and stuff

I purchased a Hope Tech Duo brake set.  This is a RH unit with 2 levers built into it.  It arrived with both the front and rear calipers and hoses already attached and filled with brake fluid.. 
I want the Duo levers to be able to eventually run 2 calipers in back, one of the stock Hope E4 calipers, and then test 2nd calipers using the other lever.  (This is part of the reason, I am interested in what width rotors I can run and/or use in order to fit both a Hope E4 caliper and other Chinese brands of 4-piston calipers.)

[Skepsist]

I will be using a 2.3mm wide rotor with the Hope Tech E4 calipers, but based on my current "gut feel", I think that these Chinese versions of the E-4 based calipers could run 2.0mm wide rotors, but 2.3mm wide rotors might lead to the pads rubbing, and make the calipers very sensitive to any non-parallelism between the pads and rotor.   

I've tried ZTTO 2.3mm Rotors on both the R2X4 and the Speedone Solider (E4). It works without rubbing and since those rotos dont bend easily it will stay like that. But keep in mind that setup will be more difficult and you should definetly reset your pistons before that. Magura Brakes have serious problems with rubbing on those disc rotors and for shimano i had to let out a little bit of oil. Hope Tech 4 V4 had no problems at all.
My R2X4 is still not leaking btw. not sure if im just lucky.

[FredDias2018]

I've tried ZTTO 2.3mm Rotors on both the R2X4 and the Speedone Solider (E4). It works without rubbing and since those rotos dont bend easily it will stay like that. But keep in mind that setup will be more difficult and you should definetly reset your pistons before that. Magura Brakes have serious problems with rubbing on those disc rotors and for shimano i had to let out a little bit of oil. Hope Tech 4 V4 had no problems at all.
My R2X4 is still not leaking btw. not sure if im just lucky.

if things start to leak around the barb i usually just use vaseline to seal it. works on shimano, so it would probably work on these olive-less brakes too 

[Fat Larry]

I've tried ZTTO 2.3mm Rotors on both the R2X4 and the Speedone Solider (E4). It works without rubbing and since those rotos dont bend easily it will stay like that. But keep in mind that setup will be more difficult and you should definetly reset your pistons before that. Magura Brakes have serious problems with rubbing on those disc rotors and for shimano i had to let out a little bit of oil. Hope Tech 4 V4 had no problems at all.
My R2X4 is still not leaking btw. not sure if im just lucky.

I have one of those rotors on a shigura mt5 brake as a front on my trail bike. No rubbing though I haven't been riding much but i remember thinking it was lacking for power the last time I used that bike. Could be anything though.

Also managed to warp the one I had on the rear

[Tijoe]

I have my new Hope Tech Duo E4 lever set and calipers installed, bled and aligned on the hardtail I use for many of my bikepacking trips.   Installation took longer than expected, bleeding the Hope brakes was straight forward, and the calipers felt firm in shorter time than any of my rear IIIPro calipers.   
Alignment of the upper caliper so it wouldn't rub the rotor took forever!, and required some filing of the 2-caliper Mtb bracket surfaces. Seemed like a slight twist on the upper bracket arm prevented the pads from being parallel to the rotor.  Pics show the set up.     With all of the recent rain, and atmospheric river passing though our region, I wont road test the brake on the road for a while.

On a side note:  the Dot5.1 compatible 16mm square o-rings arrived.  I installed them in a IIIPro E4 caliper, and am working on putting the caliper back together.

[Fat Larry]

What makes you want so much rear brake power?