Author Topic: LTWOO eGR  (Read 592174 times)

amacal1

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #225 on: October 15, 2024, 01:25:11 PM »
I'm actually glad LTwoo and Wheeltop are now in the groupset market.

Yes. Market economics does work for things like this. SRAM and Shimano can be a little foolish, still, but if they start acting like complete jackasses, then the new companies will start eating their lunch.

highwind

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #226 on: October 25, 2024, 03:19:44 AM »
@gloscherrybomb & @trcycling

Thanks for you answers.
I am currently not in need of a new groupset, just checking options as my next upgrade will prolly be electronic with SRAMs eTap-shiftlogic.

Hopefully Sensah will be offering something the like with their new electronic groupset which I heard is in the making... they have been more-SRAM-than-Shimano-like in the past anyways.  ;)
If they just "copy" the APEX/Rival AXS but with hydraulic oil brakes (instead of DOT) and a derailleur battery pack which uses some standard batteries (like 18650) instead of the proprietary stuff, I think that would be an absolute winner of a groupset.

Quoting myself here but may be interesting for others (albeit being offtopic in regards to LTWOO eGR)

The new Wheeltop GEX offers a fully wireless rear derailleur (compareable to SRAM) with hydraulic oil disc brakes (fully Shimano-compatible... you could even use original Shimano brakes) and the shifting-logic can be programmed either way (SRAM-style one side up, the other side down or Shimano-style both up and down on the right hand side) inside the app. The battery pack is proprietary but atleast can be exchanged (according to the manual).
It is also said to be fully compatible with basically all 3 to 14 speed cassettes which is a very nice addition because it lets you save money on using cheap 11spd cassettes now but also stay compatible/future proof on 12 & 13 speed when those become cheaper in the future.

amacal1

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #227 on: October 25, 2024, 09:27:38 AM »
Quoting myself here but may be interesting for others (albeit being offtopic in regards to LTWOO eGR)

The new Wheeltop GEX offers a fully wireless rear derailleur (compareable to SRAM) with hydraulic oil disc brakes (fully Shimano-compatible... you could even use original Shimano brakes) and the shifting-logic can be programmed either way (SRAM-style one side up, the other side down or Shimano-style both up and down on the right hand side) inside the app. The battery pack is proprietary but atleast can be exchanged (according to the manual).
It is also said to be fully compatible with basically all 3 to 14 speed cassettes which is a very nice addition because it lets you save money on using cheap 11spd cassettes now but also stay compatible/future proof on 12 & 13 speed when those become cheaper in the future.

GeX does seem nice, and the Ali price is good ($450 right now, without any other special discounts). Problem is, zero support and warranty at that price. Their QC doesn't seem to be much better than Ltwoo, really, so not a huge advantage over Ltwoo really at that price. There seems to be a website that purports to be their US distribution company that's selling it for $509 (on sale right now). That ain't a bad price, and if that's really legit and they back the warranty and support then it's probably a slightly safer bet than Ltwoo at a slightly higher price.

jonathanf2

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #228 on: October 25, 2024, 11:47:05 AM »
GeX does seem nice, and the Ali price is good ($450 right now, without any other special discounts). Problem is, zero support and warranty at that price. Their QC doesn't seem to be much better than Ltwoo, really, so not a huge advantage over Ltwoo really at that price. There seems to be a website that purports to be their US distribution company that's selling it for $509 (on sale right now). That ain't a bad price, and if that's really legit and they back the warranty and support then it's probably a slightly safer bet than Ltwoo at a slightly higher price.

It seems Wheeltop now has US distribution and warranty support (not sure about Europe). I remember someone saying that Wheeltop opened an office in Portland, OR. The GeX for $509 USD with warranty support and selectable cassette speeds, seems reasonable. Also Wheeltop took a cue from Shimano and offers separate RDs for both xx-46t and xx-51t cassette sizes. Plus they offer alloy and carbon versions. LTwoo only offers xx-46t compatibility and alloy only shifters with the eGR. LTwoo has no US support or distribution either, with AliEx sellers stepping up for support. Wheeltop sounds (at least) on-paper to be the safer bet.

Though personally I'd probably stick with eGR since I'm already embedded with the ER9 groupset on my road bikes, so I'd only need 1 app to manage all my bikes.

courdacier

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #229 on: October 25, 2024, 01:04:38 PM »
SRAM engineers probably did design it to be replaceable, but then the marketing department said otherwise! I can't stand companies that are market driven in this way. Shimano isn't much better, but I find SRAM much worst in this regards. I'm actually glad LTwoo and Wheeltop are now in the groupset market.

the moment you decide to make it replaceable you need to add thickness to the screw-on cap, a rubber gasket and additional assembly steps at the plant. this way you can make it smaller, flimsier and also not have to do a 5-yr durability study.

courdacier

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #230 on: October 25, 2024, 01:11:05 PM »
GeX does seem nice, and the Ali price is good ($450 right now, without any other special discounts). Problem is, zero support and warranty at that price. Their QC doesn't seem to be much better than Ltwoo, really, so not a huge advantage over Ltwoo really at that price. There seems to be a website that purports to be their US distribution company that's selling it for $509 (on sale right now). That ain't a bad price, and if that's really legit and they back the warranty and support then it's probably a slightly safer bet than Ltwoo at a slightly higher price.

good find! I like how the AE eds mtb package price dropped to be in line with the $300 SRAM apex/blip combo. I'll probably pick one up for my kid's bike.

jonathanf2

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #231 on: October 25, 2024, 01:33:08 PM »
good find! I like how the AE eds mtb package price dropped to be in line with the $300 SRAM apex/blip combo. I'll probably pick one up for my kid's bike.

https://www.performancebike.com/sram-apex-xplr-axs-rear-derailleur-grey-12-speed-electronic-00.7518.175.000/p1501152

SRAM AXS XPLR RD is $221 USD right now and paired with $100 blips, seems quite reasonable. I could literally just keep my Shimano hydraulic shifters in-place and go full wireless with that setup. Though how would the crank/chain/cassette situation look? I'd have to go 12 speed, but can the XPLR RD handle non-SRAM chain/cassette combos?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 01:35:11 PM by jonathanf2 »

courdacier

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #232 on: October 25, 2024, 01:45:46 PM »
https://www.performancebike.com/sram-apex-xplr-axs-rear-derailleur-grey-12-speed-electronic-00.7518.175.000/p1501152

SRAM AXS XPLR RD is $221 USD right now and paired with $100 blips, seems quite reasonable. I could literally just keep my Shimano hydraulic shifters in-place and go full wireless with that setup. Though how would the crank/chain/cassette situation look? I'd have to go 12 speed, but can the XPLR RD handle non-SRAM chain/cassette combos?

I've been running it w/AE 12-sp cassette and chain, and it works. I don't know if it works better with all native SRAM bits since I've never tested both. I would assume it does. I'm liking the option to use <12sp bits w/Wheeltop as I still have old parts I can use up.

trcycling

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #233 on: October 25, 2024, 01:53:15 PM »
the moment you decide to make it replaceable you need to add thickness to the screw-on cap, a rubber gasket and additional assembly steps at the plant. this way you can make it smaller, flimsier and also not have to do a 5-yr durability study.

Fair enough in theory. But in practice, the Wheeltop pack seems to be of comparable size to the SRAM removable packs. (not certain as I haven't seen in person). And more significantly, you forfeit the reassurance of being able to carry a spare. With AXS, I can easily keep a spare in my pack or swap batteries on a 2x if I run out while riding. Sure, they last long enough that it shouldn't happen if you pay attention unless you're in the boondocks for days. But in reality, it does and people are concerned about the possibility. Shimano's Di2 approach (and the LTWOO eGR) handles this with a large battery so it's really unlikely you will wear it out while in use. It doesn't protect from user error though.

To me, if the claims of 20k shifts per charge are accurate, the fixed, small battery approach on the Wheeltop seems like a good compromise. But I wouldn't trust it until that lifespan is verified. I don't get 20k shifts out of AXS or LTWOO. The spec is also not revealing the drain of simply existing. Keeping the radios alive (when they are) and the motions sensors (to turn it on) all the time.  IMO, that standby power drain is non-trivial in the total charge cycle. It seems like the reality of these electronic systems is XXX shifts and/or a month(ish) between charges whichever comes first and a tradeoff. Totally acceptable performance, but important to realize that time is a factor as well.

highwind

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #234 on: October 27, 2024, 08:11:41 AM »
Their QC doesn't seem to be much better than Ltwoo, really, so not a huge advantage over Ltwoo really at that price.
The advantage is neither pricing nor QC, it is compatibility with basically any cassette no matter the gears and "AXS-style-shifting-with-easy-to-bleed-non-DOT-brakes"
Something you neither get from LTWOO, nor Shimano, nor SRAM, nor anybody else.
This obviously doesnt mean QC isnt important, but GeX brings much more -at least on paper- than "just another cheapish alternative only worth considering when not able/willing to pay for big brand"

But in reality, it does and people are concerned about the possibility. Shimano's Di2 approach (and the LTWOO eGR) handles this with a large battery so it's really unlikely you will wear it out while in use.
In reality it acutally turns out to be the other way around... if starting full, both systems a very unlikey to run out during a ride, but a small battery you routinely charge at the end of each day/ride is much less likely to be forgotten / not charged in comparison to a very large battery where charging is only required once every few month or so.
I basically never forget to charge my smartphone over night, connecting it when going asleep is a routine like tooth brushing.
But I actually tend to regularly forget charging/changing batteries on my digital scale, tv remote, wallclock, etc. just because of their long run times.

And more significantly, you forfeit the reassurance of being able to carry a spare. With AXS, I can easily keep a spare in my pack or swap batteries on a 2x if I run out while riding.
Or in other words: with AXS you need an expensive seperate proprietary battery in your pack (which then can only be used for your AXS derailleur) while with GeX you could just use the same cheap and widely available USB powerbank which you are very likely to carry in your pack anyways (because it is used for your bike computer, bike lights, smartphone, etc.) plus a probably cheapish and very light/small cable.

gloscherrybomb

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #235 on: October 28, 2024, 05:45:23 AM »
The advantage is neither pricing nor QC, it is compatibility with basically any cassette no matter the gears and "AXS-style-shifting-with-easy-to-bleed-non-DOT-brakes"
Something you neither get from LTWOO, nor Shimano, nor SRAM, nor anybody else.
This obviously doesnt mean QC isnt important, but GeX brings much more -at least on paper- than "just another cheapish alternative only worth considering when not able/willing to pay for big brand"
In reality it acutally turns out to be the other way around... if starting full, both systems a very unlikey to run out during a ride, but a small battery you routinely charge at the end of each day/ride is much less likely to be forgotten / not charged in comparison to a very large battery where charging is only required once every few month or so.
I basically never forget to charge my smartphone over night, connecting it when going asleep is a routine like tooth brushing.
But I actually tend to regularly forget charging/changing batteries on my digital scale, tv remote, wallclock, etc. just because of their long run times.
Or in other words: with AXS you need an expensive seperate proprietary battery in your pack (which then can only be used for your AXS derailleur) while with GeX you could just use the same cheap and widely available USB powerbank which you are very likely to carry in your pack anyways (because it is used for your bike computer, bike lights, smartphone, etc.) plus a probably cheapish and very light/small cable.

Aside from backpacking I don't think many people are carrying a power bank around with them...

amacal1

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #236 on: October 31, 2024, 10:51:08 AM »
Aside from backpacking I don't think many people are carrying a power bank around with them...

I mean, not on the bike. But a lot of people carry them around when traveling. For the Ltwoo eGR, it doesn't take that long to get some charge in the batteries and a little charge seems to go a long way. If you're that low, 20-30 min on the charger is probably enough to get you through most any reasonable ride, I would think. Before you ride, pull out your power bank and pop it on there, then go fill your water bottles, eat a banana, check your tire pressure, etc. That's not even wasted time.

If you've got a much longer or more challenging ride, just take a little longer, idk.

amacal1

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #237 on: October 31, 2024, 10:57:59 AM »
Curious what size jockey wheels are used on the EGR? Goldix have a few steel bearing jockey wheels and LTwoo seems to use off-the-shelf parts when possible. Would any of these match?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803396383834.html

I finally got around to replacing my gritty jockey wheel last night. I had bought a super cheap aluminum ZTTO branded 13T ball bearing jockey wheel as part of a choice purchase on Ali for less than $2. I was worried it might be too big, but it actually turned out to be smaller than the original. I believe I counted 14t on the Ltwoo wheel. So, close enough to not be an issue. I'm not sure if 15T would fit, but I would think anything 16T or bigger would likely be too big.

13T was fine and the jockey wheel worked for now. I'm afraid that this bearing wasn't sealed, either, and will suffer the same fate as the original once I hit some water and mud. At that point, I'll just replace the bearing since I'm pretty confident I can pop a new one in and out of the wheel and will likely go ahead and do that to the stock one now that I have it out.

I replaced the bottom jockey wheel. Has anyone replaced the top jockey wheel, or even removed it? I can't seem to remove mine. The hardware for the arm is not backing out. I didn't investigate further, but it almost looked like it wasn't designed to simply "unscrew".
« Last Edit: October 31, 2024, 11:05:15 AM by amacal1 »

Mattpl

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #238 on: November 01, 2024, 11:33:37 AM »
Hi, someone maybe have info if shiffters from EGR work with RD from erx/er9 or shiffters from er9 with RD from EGR?

jonathanf2

Re: LTWOO eGR
« Reply #239 on: November 01, 2024, 12:24:54 PM »
Hi, someone maybe have info if shiffters from EGR work with RD from erx/er9 or shiffters from er9 with RD from EGR?

Some people have both groupsets, but no one has taken the time to try it. You wouldn't even need to remove the groupset from either bike, you just need to hold the ER9/EGR RD button and shifter button and see if they'll link up.