Xiamen Carbon Speed rims/wheels

[toxin]

The spokes on that wheelset in my last post is 3.8mm, same as Farsports uses on their wheelset, and 5.0mm too. We have a bit more expensive ones 3.2mm carbon spokes like some big brands use on their wheels as well as attached.
Actually the nipples on carbon spokes are already hidden, they are not like the regular stainless spokes, you can tell from the picture. The nipples on carbon spokes request special tool to screw, that is why almost rims built with carbon spokes have to be drilled with access holes in the rim bead.

We are going to release the new 20/20h hubs for carbon spokes end of this month. So the wheels would be pre-ordered to customize now.

Yes, I know the actual part that acts like a nipple on carbon spokes is internal, sorry. What I meant was if there was any possibility of hiding the metal spoke part like Magene and Scope do with stren spokes

[PoulB88]

I am interested in hidden nipples as well - I am unable to read stuff like https://wheellabkr.imweb.me/Blog/?q=YToxOntzOjEyOiJrZXl3b3JkX3R5cGUiO3M6MzoiYWxsIjt9&bmode=view&idx=18095954&t=board and not be affected by it 

Hidden nipples with 50mm rims is almost as aerodynamic as external nipples with 55mm rims, at a lighter weight

[ancientone]

Current we use these sizes on our 24/24H in-house hubs with enduro steel bearings for regular stainless spokes, and 21/21H hubs 20/20H hubs with TPI ceramic bearings for carbon spokes: 6802 on front hub and freehub, 15267 on rear hub except freehub.

Thanks Peter. The reason I asked is because I was told that both Farsports and WindSpace Hyper and Farsport  use 6903 for lower rolling resistance. There is no option to go for 6903 and still stick to ceramic and carbon ?

[KaiDeus]

I´m curious, what was your production lead time? I ordered my wheelset on the 29. and still dont´t have any information on whether mine is in production or not.

[c.etzo]

About 20 days

[Sakizashi]

I am interested in hidden nipples as well - I am unable to read stuff like https://wheellabkr.imweb.me/Blog/?q=YToxOntzOjEyOiJrZXl3b3JkX3R5cGUiO3M6MzoiYWxsIjt9&bmode=view&idx=18095954&t=board and not be affected by it 
 

FWIW, I tried to reverse Wheel Lab's assertion of watt savings using a rotational drag-only model and think that 20 carbon spokes of this design should be very similar to 24 CXrays with external nipples.

However, Hunt did actual testing of external vs. internal nipples for their Sub50 testing, including the translational component, with external vs. internal nipples that their measured difference was 1/5th of what Wheel Lab claimed (at 0.2-0.3W per wheel). They also showed that blunt trailing edges on the front wheel have similar effects as internal nipples and that they do compound. On the rear wheel, they showed similar gains going 10mm deeper--even though, for weight reasons, they chose not to take that advantage. All of this stuff is very marginal.

If you are running 32mm or 28mm tires, it's hard to see a better value than a pair of D50CU-28 or D50CU-33 with the upcoming 20h hubs if you want a light wheelset, especially if the former is ~1150g. If you are willing to step into the 1250-1300g range, I think some choices are likely a couple of watts faster that are worth the weight tradeoff, though, in this price range, they would be just as unproven.

[toxin]

I'm just waiting for one of the bigger players to extend the bladed section and reduce the round section of the spoke of this design as much as possible. Carbon spokes have gotten plenty thin and deep already, so that's the biggest remaining room for improvement in aero. Eyeballing it, the stren spokes on newmen, scope, winspace, cadex, (crw? conflicting info) etc. have it the worst and farsports considerably better, but then they now have those gigantic external nipples, so swings and roundabouts, I guess. Wheellab do have something in the works apparently, but nothing concrete shown yet.

[ry]

I'm just waiting for one of the bigger players to extend the bladed section and reduce the round section of the spoke of this design as much as possible. Carbon spokes have gotten plenty thin and deep already, so that's the biggest remaining room for improvement in aero. Eyeballing it, the stren spokes on newmen, scope, winspace, cadex, (crw? conflicting info) etc. have it the worst and farsports considerably better, but then they now have those gigantic external nipples, so swings and roundabouts, I guess. Wheellab do have something in the works apparently, but nothing concrete shown yet.

Thanks for your thoughtful analyses and comments.  I was just wondering what leads to the conclusion that the farsports version is better? I'm assuming you're referring to aero?

I'm also thinking about safety - it seems like none of the options really use bonding to hold the tension anymore which addresses my concern if it is true (I've had some bad experience with carbon adhesive pull-out in another application).

[PeterXu]

Thanks Peter. The reason I asked is because I was told that both Farsports and WindSpace Hyper and Farsport  use 6903 for lower rolling resistance. There is no option to go for 6903 and still stick to ceramic and carbon ?

Do you think the 6903 bearings can really lower the rolling resistance ? I am not sure, DT Swiss uses same 6802 and 15267 on their hubs. At least so far we haven't any client saying our hubs with high rolling resistance or anything bad. Anyway we use good bearings, maybe just different sizes with others'.

[PeterXu]

I´m curious, what was your production lead time? I ordered my wheelset on the 29. and still dont´t have any information on whether mine is in production or not.

Normally we have the T800 version rims in UD matt available, UD paintless and T1100 version rims have to be customized, so the lead time on these wheels would be around 15-20 days. You changed your order from D50CU-33 T1100 to D50CU-28 T1100 rims on Dec 6, so the rims are still on production and they would be done in 7-8 days from today.

[KaiDeus]

Thanks for the clarification, peter. I wasn`t aware the rims are basically made to order.

Had to change to narrower rims, because winspace is very stingy on clarifiying their tyre clearance on the slc 3.0...They can`t deliver the measurment of the chainstay gap at the wheel.
Be it as it may, i`m looking forward to the wheelset.

[toxin]

Thanks for your thoughtful analyses and comments.  I was just wondering what leads to the conclusion that the farsports version is better? I'm assuming you're referring to aero?

I'm also thinking about safety - it seems like none of the options really use bonding to hold the tension anymore which addresses my concern if it is true (I've had some bad experience with carbon adhesive pull-out in another application).

Yes, aerodynamically, the farsports 5mm spokes are better, othersise the designs sre basically the same.

Yep, LightBicycle made carbon spokes bonded to metal bit for a short while and they were an absolute disaster. There's still someone out there making similar spokes, though they've taken some steps to mitigate the risk. Most of the time they're still an inferior choice though. Their advantages are that they can be a gram or so lighter and fit normal hubs.

[ancientone]

Do you think the 6903 bearings can really lower the rolling resistance ? I am not sure, DT Swiss uses same 6802 and 15267 on their hubs. At least so far we haven't any client saying our hubs with high rolling resistance or anything bad. Anyway we use good bearings, maybe just different sizes with others'.

Thanks. I'll msg you to confirm the details, price and order.

[toxin]

Bigger bearings usually means improved durability, not lower drag

[PeterXu]

Bigger bearings usually means improved durability, not lower drag

I know, normally on MTB hubs, no? Or mainly on front hubs? We use bigger bearings on our in-house MTB boost hubs for now.