Affordable lightweight frameset (not Winspace SLC 3)

[Serge_K]

With the disclaimer that this is my first bike build and that I know little about carbon frames in comparison to many others on this forum, I'm impressed with my initial inspection of the FL1 frame.

It does look super clean to me. Very nice.

I want to be clear that while the jokes do write themselves, my Bigrock has left me completely satisfied. 

It's funny and all, but i really wouldnt want to ride clown branding every day. I love dick jokes, i'm a child, but dick jokes all day every day are too much. So their branding really is tragic. Glad to know they make good frames though, because with Tavelo, we know a frame can be expensive AND a POS!

[kubackje]

If I were you, I'd think hard about the Bigrock frame.  I have done 1,100 miles of hard riding on mine and it has honestly been fantastic.  I think the name is funny, whenever someone asks me about it, I tell them that I only ordered it because I misread the "R" as a "C."  The frame is incredibly well done though, very stiff, great geometry, and the carbon layup is so clean it puts my big name carbon bike to shame.

Can u show us photos of your bidcock?

Edit:Ummm sorry bigrock

[CountUgolino]

https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/bigrock-mtbigrock-51151

Here are a few photos and some build details of my large (56cm) black Bigrock.

[JayBee]

Here are some pics of the ICAN FL1 fork and headset bearings.

I have a few questions for the forum:

1. The stated max front rotor size is 140mm. This should be fine for me as I'm around 65kgs, but I'm curious why this frameset could not take a 160mm rotor. Any ideas?

2. Would you have any reservations about using the supplied headset bearings? Would it be worthwhile using something like an FSA before I put this bike together?

3. I take it that this fork doesn't require a metal crown race?

[Serge_K]

https://www.pedalroom.com/bike/bigrock-mtbigrock-51151

Here are a few photos and some build details of my large (56cm) black Bigrock.

Nice and clean, well done. And to be fair, I can't even see the logo on these pictures so I suspect it's easy enough to forget about it. It looks a lot like an aethos.

[Ahodesu05]

https://www.allstarobm.com/scott-road-disc-frameset-addict-rc-pro-disk-bicycle-bike-frame-p4646676.html

hello boss,

please buy chinese aethos. beautiful bicycle ride to coffee shop many friends asking, wow so nice but why no cable and where buy? you tell them spare-sir-rice make this for you only! they go WOW! now you local legend!

WTF you forgot to add some Fu Manchu and slant eye references  .I get that you’re trying to make fun of an obvious scam but stay classy eh?

[KaiDeus]

What is the T47 spacing on the Fl1? Is it 86mm? Would be a shame as the Magene PMs would not fit.

[JayBee]

What is the T47 spacing on the Fl1? Is it 86mm?

Yes - 86

[Dave]

It does look super clean to me. Very nice.

hello!
 I wanted to ask your advice: what frame of these two would you choose and why? ican fl1 or flyee?
bike for long rides 200+ km
so far, my choice is flyee.

thank you for your answer

[JayBee]

ican fl1 or flyee?

I went with FL1 based on price and aesthetics (round tubes, classic seat post collar). I have not built it up yet so I cannot report on ride quality.

[tisun]

So, my new bike project got bigger, I'll be building a new MTB too.  I was talking to Vivian from TanTan for their FM121 XC frame, then checking out their road frame offers too.  I ended up getting the FM025 frame, size S, about 825g.  Vivian offered me a bundle discount.  Total cost for FM121 + Fm025 is less than $1300.  Now I'm shopping for wheels.  Already got quotes from XM Carbon Speed and Yuan An.  Wheels from Go Zone on AliExpress look very good too.

[OralMaster]

WTF you forgot to add some Fu Manchu and slant eye references  .I get that you’re trying to make fun of an obvious scam but stay classy eh?

i am asian



i no classy

[ausmtb8989]

With the disclaimer that this is my first bike build and that I know little about carbon frames in comparison to many others on this forum, I'm impressed with my initial inspection of the FL1 frame.

I would get an endoscope and look inside

[Fatbonzo]

Brands command a premium, for what benefit?

With Giant being the exception (a brand that owns / is the factories), you have factories that make frames for brands, and brands distribute and sell. Each layer needs to eat. The further away from China, the more expensive the layer, and the less relevant (carbon bike market is now so commoditized with all frames looking the same and within 5w of each other). Therefore, the closer to the factory, the better the value & the less bullsh1t.

It is telling that Pinarello has frames made in china and they paint them in Italy. You can get real custom... because of the paint. Factor is the same: their frame looks open mould, but you get to really tune... the paint.

There's something to be said about where the expertise really lies. Take carbon layup. Is it Specialized that's really the expert, or Specialized suppliers? I dont have the answer, but it's important when thinking about light frames: as of now, T700 is ghetto. T800 is the gold standard, most legit carbon things are made with it. And then you go into fancy territory, with T1000, T1100, and increasingly, you see exotic things like M30, M40, and others. As brands brand (ie differentiate), there's also the question of how much a brand is making shit up (what does specialized's Fact carbon actually mean? Ditto with Pinarello's different carbon tiers). T1000 is "known" (rumoured?) to cost about 2x T800, so you will NOT see a frame made with T1000 for $500. If T1000 and $500 are seen on the same page, it means they (at best) INCLUDE T1000 in the frame, but it could be 1% - obviously, that's unregulated, Chinese are known to basically lie, and, maybe most importantly, you can't test it yourself -. The biggest benefit of higher tiers is you can use less of it for the same strength, so frames get lighter.

And so, you're left with the usual questions:
- Do you want to pay extra for a brand? The Chinese market now has brands, including Specialized equivalent brands (ie social media fluff fest). As a westerner, i'd say buying a Chinese brand is the worst choice possible: you pay a premium, but you're not in China, so you can't flex at the cafe your branded bigcock frame that nobody knows, and you can't lean on the bigcock bike shop for help / maintenance / support / warranty / i spent money here please be make me feel important and refer to me as your lordship.
- If you buy a western brand, (1) you (usually) get to rely on your local LBS, (2) you get a frame that's been QCed (questionable truth), (3) and if you buy something high end, you buy a vibe around layup technology, ride properties, the secret sauce that makes it so that when you jump on a specialized, your hair grows back, your biceps get more defined, and the ladies look at you like "ooh myyyy". (3) goes back to my point above on who actually has the layup know how.

So, a rational actor will wonder: how much more over an equivalent spec (features & weight) OEM frame am i willing to spend to benefit from 1-2-3?
- If you buy an OEM frame, you have to trust that (A) the factory / broker actually exists (people on this forum still using paypal insurance scheme to send money to Farsports is money down the drain, as far as i'm concerned), (B) they will ship you what you ordered (when Airwolf on Aliexpress sells you a frame for 12 dollars made of full T1100, spoiler alert, they're lying), (C) they will ship you a frame that's not a dog, and that's been QCed enough (Light carbon shipping cheese, Tavelo with undersized BBs whose shells crack during install, and all the horror stories you can find on here with Airwolf, tantan, workswell, and so on).
- On (C), because a seller will usually tell you not to worry, then ship you swiss cheese anyway, you have to factor in an element of risk: more often than not, seller A (after careful consideration on your part to choose that seller) will ship good frames, but occasionally, they will fuck up, at which point you need to be qualified enough to understand where they fucked up, and complain. Also, let's be honest, in many instances, people complaining about frames is USER ERROR, or such trivial niggles that the factory should indeed ignore the noises you make. And you have to complain loud enough, to a seller that is honest enough / has enough of an incentive to listen and help.

And so, this forum is invaluable in helping identify (a) where the value is, (b) good sellers, (c) and bad ones.

For light frames, it depends on what you deem light (and what tyre clearance you need). A lot of 2024 frames are around or below 1000g in Medium (starting with the Velobuild 268, which really is the standard of value). SP Cycle claims a 880g frame (30C, R025-SL), Yishun has an endurance frame at 900g, Long Teng claims their chonky boy 301 is 980g. I havent mapped out the lighter side of the market, because i'm over 80kg myself, but i would say: reach out to OEM with a good reputation on this forum, ideally order 2 frames and build 1 for a friend (or more), as you will command better care and attention, ask questions, accept the risk that no matter what you do, you may have problems to solve, but deal with someone who will more likely than not agree to help you rather than ghost you, and have fun.

Or buy a Giant TCR, ofc, once you've swallowed the upfront cost, rarely do people regret buying a branded frame.

Notes:
- on light carbon, recent precedents make them look bad (1 example of awful cheese carbon, 1 example of a down tube you could deform by hand, off the top of my head, but they generally have great reputation, and they're linked to Yishun (if i'm not mistaken), which also has great reputation.
- on tantan, plenty of people report horror stories, but they also OEM for big brands, and they are huge (assuming a constant error rate, the bigger you are, the more errors). As such, and because perfection is an ideal, nor a reality, they're probably still a good counterpart.
- Airwolf has an error rate so high it makes errors part of who they are, so you probably dont want to buy frames from them. But i've been buying cockpits from them, and i love their cockpits. So even that is more nuanced than just "avoid airwolf"

What do i know? I've been riding bikes for a long time, most of my friends ride bikes and many of them are champions, and i've built 9 chinese bikes in the last 2y.

These opinions are my own and as a matter of course, i tend to agree with what i say, which doesn't make it truth.

I wanted to get back to this. A frame I do like visually (Yishun R1088D) is coming with T700, but still has the common weight of a Chinese carbon frame (>1000g).
Many like Speeder or TanTan speak of T800 and achieve just the same weight, even if the material is supposed to be lighter for the same structural integrity.
Is Yishun good at using T700? What weight could they save with better carbon?

And then on the other end, you've Winowsports with a new frame, which is ridiculous heavy and just loses 300g for the shipped model compared AliExpress ...

[Serge_K]

I wanted to get back to this. A frame I do like visually (Yishun R1088D) is coming with T700, but still has the common weight of a Chinese carbon frame (>1000g).
Many like Speeder or TanTan speak of T800 and achieve just the same weight, even if the material is supposed to be lighter for the same structural integrity.
Is Yishun good at using T700? What weight could they save with better carbon?

And then on the other end, you've Winowsports with a new frame, which is ridiculous heavy and just loses 300g for the shipped model compared AliExpress ...

I recently learnt (and i am going to assume this is true) that you can't build a frame w T800 alone. T700 is the backbone of bike carbon stuff, both wheels and frames.
So you have 700 vs 700+800 vs 700+800+[1000/1100/MJ40 and other exotic stuff].
When we hear of sworks frame cracking like matches, it's probably because they use a lot of T1000 level fibers, which is stiff, but very fragile.
800 is stiffer and lighter than 700, and the next tier even more so. But all come at the detriment of strength.
So, when you see T800, afaik, you have to read T700+T800, probably in the realm of 50/50.
I think that to achieve a sub 1000g, you kind of have to use T1000 in the mix. Probably impossible with T700 alone, and i think rather unlikely w T7+8.

Re. the winow beast, if you're heavy and do only stead state efforts on the flat, then it's probably a nice bike. Otherwise i see every reason to buy something else.