Looking for a carbon triathlon frame

[womble73]

Hi All,

I currently run a fuji 2009 original spec in almost new condition, she is the fasted bike I have ever own for a little over 10 years. But I suspect I suffer a lot of lost watts from rolling resistance / crank bearings and not fully tuned setup.
 
After lots of reading across the web and here in particular is think I have narrowed down to a single Chinese manufacture. Frames I have looked at in no particular order. There were a few other brands but I dismissed them quickly for various reasons:
Trifox - No TT frames
Airwolf - No TT frames
Yoeleo - No TT frames
lightcarbon- No Disc brake versions
Twitter - No TT frames
ICAN - No TT frames
Falco - Can't find a website and alix is all old resellers (I read somewhere the molds have been purchased but no real details)
TanTan - No TT frames
Winspace - No TT frames although the T1550 is close (seat tube angle might be too great)
Winow Sports - TT119 but not sold on the look.
Seraph - TT912 has press in BB. Feels a bit old looks like the TT119
Elves - No reviews on their V frame, only one I could find said it "could" be sloppy and has a max weight limit of 100kg. I am a heavier rider but no there yet. Also looks like very mixed quality from their frames still.
VeloBuild - VB-TT-023 I saw a recent build on here and was also leaning towards this based on their frame reviews before looking at the build-up

The bike is primarily for Full Ironman events. One event per year plus the 1000's of km of training rides (Once a week averaging 100 - 150 kms), the rest is done on a indoor trainer bike.

The planned build will be if I can settle on a frame:
Tektro HD-T910 brakes
Sram force ASX running gear (24 speed) with wireless blips (3d printed mounts for the blips)
EliteWheels Full disc rear, 80s spoked on the front (considered the 3 spoke carbon as well). With maybe an 80 spoked spare rear, for race day if cross winds are too much.
EC90 seat

Now for the questions:
Have I missed any frames that people would recommend? Given Elves was top of my budget for a frame, any higher and I will pickup a western brand (I know) from a local store. But the price point is just too much.
For the people who have built the VB-TT-023 or any other disc brake based TT bike how is the ride after months. Is there anything I should look out for?
With the Alix double 11 sales coming up is it better to get from the website and try to ask for a price match or to get it from the "alix offical store"?

The VB frames in general have mixed reviews but seem to have more +ve reviews than most others who do TT bikes, hence why I am leaning towards them.
This is not going to be a cheap build in local currency but I should have a very competitive bike (maybe no the rider) once all is done and hopefully I get another good 10 years out of the bike.

Thanks for all your input.

[womble73]

Thank you for the input.
 
I also have concerns around the wheel width. Which is my exact problem with the current bike. It runs 23's and I could probably run a 25 in a pinch. Making replacing the wheel set for something newer a slightly harder task (not impossible).

It seems in the world of triathlon at least they are slow on trickle down modifications like disc brakes and wider tyres, even tho the proof of a wider tyre gives less rolling resistance and disc's only create a small drag increase (where v brakes were hidden in the first place). It is all about the aero drag of the bike (20%) and rider (80%) figures I saw recently. Given triathletes try to spend most of their time in the aero position it is about comfort and control from that position, so I could see why shorter bars could limit the control aspect by having arms too close together.

I completely agree with your comments about the TT bikes being behind.  Me wanting something that is "newer tech" costs in western branded frames 3 times as much like the latest P-series or shiv. Both difficult to get in frames but will take 30c and run disc's.

I was unaware of the ICAN frame it does not appear on their website and I have messaged them (Also looking at the flybike it maxes out at 25c on website). No TT bike is appearing on the speeder site either. Could be a GEO thing which seems to happen a lot over this way.

I have been in contact with Chris with regards the bar sizing to ensure that they would fit the tektro brakes and have been happy with the promptness. Thanks for the info on the spacers I will need more as I am planning on going a smaller frame with a shorter crank arms. My current bike is a "slammed" configuration as that is what they did in the day, so I expect the base bars to still be slammed.

[rockerplates.de]

Hi All,

I currently run a fuji 2009 original spec in almost new condition, she is the fasted bike I have ever own for a little over 10 years. But I suspect I suffer a lot of lost watts from rolling resistance / crank bearings and not fully tuned setup.
 
After lots of reading across the web and here in particular is think I have narrowed down to a single Chinese manufacture. Frames I have looked at in no particular order. There were a few other brands but I dismissed them quickly for various reasons:
Trifox - No TT frames
Airwolf - No TT frames
Yoeleo - No TT frames
lightcarbon- No Disc brake versions
Twitter - No TT frames
ICAN - No TT frames
Falco - Can't find a website and alix is all old resellers (I read somewhere the molds have been purchased but no real details)
TanTan - No TT frames
Winspace - No TT frames although the T1550 is close (seat tube angle might be too great)
Winow Sports - TT119 but not sold on the look.
Seraph - TT912 has press in BB. Feels a bit old looks like the TT119
Elves - No reviews on their V frame, only one I could find said it "could" be sloppy and has a max weight limit of 100kg. I am a heavier rider but no there yet. Also looks like very mixed quality from their frames still.
VeloBuild - VB-TT-023 I saw a recent build on here and was also leaning towards this based on their frame reviews before looking at the build-up

The bike is primarily for Full Ironman events. One event per year plus the 1000's of km of training rides (Once a week averaging 100 - 150 kms), the rest is done on a indoor trainer bike.

The planned build will be if I can settle on a frame:
Tektro HD-T910 brakes
Sram force ASX running gear (24 speed) with wireless blips (3d printed mounts for the blips)
EliteWheels Full disc rear, 80s spoked on the front (considered the 3 spoke carbon as well). With maybe an 80 spoked spare rear, for race day if cross winds are too much.
EC90 seat

Now for the questions:
Have I missed any frames that people would recommend? Given Elves was top of my budget for a frame, any higher and I will pickup a western brand (I know) from a local store. But the price point is just too much.
For the people who have built the VB-TT-023 or any other disc brake based TT bike how is the ride after months. Is there anything I should look out for?
With the Alix double 11 sales coming up is it better to get from the website and try to ask for a price match or to get it from the "alix offical store"?

The VB frames in general have mixed reviews but seem to have more +ve reviews than most others who do TT bikes, hence why I am leaning towards them.
This is not going to be a cheap build in local currency but I should have a very competitive bike (maybe no the rider) once all is done and hopefully I get another good 10 years out of the bike.

Thanks for all your input.

Hongfu also has a good tt frame with disc brakes, but also a little older.
Regarding rear tire size 28 mm is the normal width on current bikes (what i see on other setups)

[womble73]

Thanks all,

Some other useful frames to compare. Lucky I have time to work through the pros and cons of them all. Sorry for all the questions, my bike knowledge is a little out of date.

I notice the BB of all the other frames are BB386 or BB86 both of which are press fit (is it considered old tech now?). Given this is my first bike build since the 90's (yes I am an old fecker), I was steering towards a frame with the T47 BB.

People talk about frame creaking (misaligned) with the BB386 / BB86 and also that if pressed incorrectly can damage the carbon, crack the frame etc..
But on the other hand the T47 isn't without it problems with alignment being one of the biggest issues and causing drag on the crank bearings. The other being ali bonding to the carbon is difficult. Given this is a high load area that is a little concerning.

Anyone have some real life experience with the different frame tolerances in that area between press fit and screw fit?
BB creak on the frames and tight crank normally requiring a little more effort (a slight love tap with a hammer) to get in place.

Thank you all once again for your knowledge.

[raisinberry777]

BB386 / BB86 shouldnt be used to run DUB / 30mm spindles (bearings end up too thin & dont last). So T47 is more versatile / more modern.
Assuming the OEM that made the frame is competent enough,  BB386 / BB86 is fine. Peak Torque has recently mentioned that Shimano BB (the ghetto 2 plastic cups version) is the unsung hero of  BB386 / BB86, because it's very forgiving of poor QC / manufacturing tolerances. I've been using ZTTO alu sleeves BB (2 bits that screw together) for all the BB386 / BB86 frames i've built (on the giant propel i rebuilt there was a rivet in the way so i had to use a shimano in fact), and i've now been using liqui moly 3312 on every conceivable surface, and it's been great. Mechanically, an alu sleeve should be stiffer than the Shimano cups, and it's cheap and easy to order from Alix.
So. All else equal, get the T47 because it's more versatile & future proof. But if you prefer frame A over B, and only B has T47, then dont worry and get A.

Just a note here - BB386 is not the same as BB86. BB386 is designed for oversize (29/30mm) axles and works just fine with them, they use regular size bearings. As a result, it's probably the most future-proof of the press-fit standards.

There has been some caution around using BB86 and SRAM DUB cranks due to the use of undersize bearings. While this is theoretically an issue, many brands that use them across a wide variety of frames (Canyon, Scott, Giant and Merida are probably the biggest brands that use it widely) don't seem to have any issues. I have no practical experience in this respect thing.

I agree with the conclusion though, bottom bracket type shouldn't really play a major role in frame choice. Press-fit is easy to deal with, and there's a variety of kits on AliExpress that make the process very simple (arguably no harder than threading in).

[rockerplates.de]

Just a note here - BB386 is not the same as BB86. BB386 is designed for oversize (29/30mm) axles and works just fine with them, they use regular size bearings. As a result, it's probably the most future-proof of the press-fit standards.

There has been some caution around using BB86 and SRAM DUB cranks due to the use of undersize bearings. While this is theoretically an issue, many brands that use them across a wide variety of frames (Canyon, Scott, Giant and Merida are probably the biggest brands that use it widely) don't seem to have any issues. I have no practical experience in this respect thing.

I agree with the conclusion though, bottom bracket type shouldn't really play a major role in frame choice. Press-fit is easy to deal with, and there's a variety of kits on AliExpress that make the process very simple (arguably no harder than threading in).

HM, i am an old school guy and also in the market of a tt frame....i do not like those pressfit bb, t47 would be a great choice or back to bsa...i have the best results with these kind of bbs...

[Daviddavieboy]

I don't want to sound like a coolaid drinker, but i've rebuilt my rim supersix hi mod with 25mm (expensive) tubulars, whole bike weighs 6kg, and done a couple of rides on it, after riding my LT268 for the whole season. It feels bad descending because it's jittery AF (tyres), it feels bad on bad tarmac (tyres), i'm not materially faster uphill (comparing max efforts). That frame is the himod model from 2015,

 I have the same bike with probably 30,000 km on it (bought new in 2014 full w/full Ultegra). My climbing times were better  than compared to now as well as my sprint but it is NOWHERE as fast (flats/downhill) as this new g056 with gravelking tires and I am a little heavier and lower FTP  . To be honest it wasn't as fast on flats as my older Pinarello race bike that had 60mm HED tubs.

 I am going to be more road focused though. Just confirmed with Peter on the new road frame they have CS-R01. Chain stay is about 42mm at the tire so my goldylocks 35mm tires should fit !

[Hmpf]

Womble73 any update on what you have decided?

[womble73]

i picked up a velobuild VB-TT-023. Still waiting on my wheels to turn up but most of the bike is put together. Only issue I have seen with the frame so far is the water bottle mount to the seat post wont fit a screw due to the hole not being round. A little bit of sanding should fix this.
The crank alignment was as perfect it required very little force to get the crank installed in the BB.
The headset is a little tight to get the cabling through. I am using SRAM wireless so only need to worry about two cables but even those took some effort to get around the bends.
Brakes all mounted up fine on the threads. All bottle holder threads are nice and clean.
Not tried the seat mounting yet.
When I tightened the hanger on the back the alignment of the thread is slightly off, ie: a little harder to hand tighten but nothing of a concern.

All in all I am very happy with the frame but until my wheels turn up I wont know how it rides. Attached is a picture of its current state.

[blakeyt93]

Looking forward to seeing the progress on this build, as I'm currently debating building up a Triathlon/TT frame too!

I see ICAN has released the a new TT017 as Serge_K mentioned. I've reached out to ICAN to see if they have any images of what it looks like as a full build.
I'm guessing as it's a newly released frame it's likely there aren't many in the wild, but if anyone does make a move on one I'd be keen to see/hear thoughts!

[Triexpress]

Looking forward to seeing the progress on this build, as I'm currently debating building up a Triathlon/TT frame too!

I see ICAN has released the a new TT017 as Serge_K mentioned. I've reached out to ICAN to see if they have any images of what it looks like as a full build.
I'm guessing as it's a newly released frame it's likely there aren't many in the wild, but if anyone does make a move on one I'd be keen to see/hear thoughts!

Did you receive any pictures of the TT017? I have been asking questions on this frame and about to buy it. I like this over the TT016 and they say its a T47 BB.
What is the maximum tyre size this frame will take? ICAN are selling Discs that run 25C to 32C so I would hope the new frame would accommodate this.

[tg]

Hello, a little background, I am a French cyclist who competes and I am looking for a recent time trial bike that does not cost an arm and a leg. A UCI TT frame that is not from 2010 costs at least 3000 euros even second-hand and I expected a lot from the Van Rysel UCI but 7700 euros for a bike with a double 52-36 chainring and no lenticular wheel ... so I am looking for something else.

The Velobuild TT-023 was the best option but they have been leading everyone for almost a year by saying "in the process of UCI certification" and in any case the ican frame and cockpit are cheaper while being better designed (especially for the handlebars)
 I then asked the seller a few questions: ican frames I asked them if the frame was or was going to be UCI and the answer: "no but OEM customers may do it" and I am waiting for their return for their contact. At the same time I contacted icanbikes to get more insight into the cockpit and to find out if I could mount the deda jet extensions that I already have (I mount them on my rcr to have a cheap time trial) So I'm sharing the photos I received, I'm sure it will be useful to others. (Some measurements are useless, the language barrier and the fact that the person who answers me doesn't seem to know anything about cycling doesn't help)

PS if Chinese manufacturers come by, young competitors absolutely need a cheap, modern UCI time trial frame

[Triexpress]

Great info.
It looks like the plate at the top of the riser has the holes to accept the aero bars/poles is one piece? Is the top plate easily removable and another one could be fitted so that other aero bars can be used?
I like the ICAN TT017 base bars that are in line with the top tube and single riser, but I prefer different aero bars than the poles. Something like the molded Fast TT type bars which are fixed to a plate. Even the window AliExpress ones
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mq1ymWx


I have been going back and forth with ICAN asking questions and understand your frustration. I have experience at work trying to communicate over emails on a technical level. It’s best not to ask too many questions per email.

[Hmpf]

I have the following to contribute to the comparison between Ican and Velobuild:

- The basebar from Ican is always 420mm wide, VB offers several sizes.
- The basebar and stem are proprietary and cannot be easily interchanged. This is possible with VB.
- With VB you can choose different sizes and angles (10 and 15 degrees) for the restbars.
- VB's paint job costs significantly less than ICAN's.
- There is a lot more of information about VB, about the ICAN i couldnt find any build thread.

[Triexpress]

I have the following to contribute to the comparison between Ican and Velobuild:

- The basebar from Ican is always 420mm wide, VB offers several sizes.
- The basebar and stem are proprietary and cannot be easily interchanged. This is possible with VB.
- With VB you can choose different sizes and angles (10 and 15 degrees) for the restbars.
- VB's paint job costs significantly less than ICAN's.
- There is a lot more of information about VB, about the ICAN i couldnt find any build thread.

ICAN have said the base bar is 400mm.
Does velobuild use a stem and conventional 38mm clamp?
The front end of TT bikes is where everyone wants to have adjustments and customise. Options of angles would be nice. This is why I asked above about the plate and if this can be removed to customise. For me I don’t think there are anyTT bikes that I would want to keep the standard aero bars. But that’s my preference.

Do you have a velobuild? Are you happy with it? I have been looking at them but thought the reviews on the ICAN seemed better build quality than the velobuild.