Is the electronic Chinese group set era over already?

[Takiyaki]

Seems like the hype subsided pretty quickly. I just bought a Twitter C6 which came with a cheap mechanical Sensah 1x12 hydro group and I'm really impressed. Has me thinking about going to SRAM for double tap. But I have no interest in Chinese electronic group sets. Or bike related Chinese electronics in general. What's the consensus

[jerozilla]

Naw they are just in their infancy, people are basically beta testing Ltwoo and Wheeltop electronic groupsets. Give it another year or two and you're going to see the major players sweating once they iron out the issues.

Right now people are turned off by things like reliability, FD not there yet etc but it can and all will be fixed. If anything I think we'll see 1-2 more big names drop groupsets, Magene maybe ?

[RDY]

Opposite, they're becoming more and more prevalent.  WT Gex looks significantly better than their only just released road offering (almost certainly to be updated soon).  Their 2nd gen MTB offering just became available in China and appears to be an original design rather than barely disguised Eagle.

Magene's groupset will launch shortly.

[jonathanf2]

I'm aleady all in with LTwoo for both gravel and road. First gen ER9/X are a bit rough around the edges, but I can already see most of those design issues ironed out with the EGR which is more like 1.5 gen. Though it's still too early to see who'll come out on top. LTwoo, Wheeltop and soon to be Magene, all seem to offer compelling features.

[bremerradkurier]

When do the earlier Di2 patents expire?

[RDY]

When do the earlier Di2 patents expire?

The very earliest Di2 was released in 2001. But patents will probably date a couple of years earlier so have already expired.  What we recognize as Di2 I think was 2009 release, but patents IIRC go back at least 3 or 4 years prior.  Not a great deal that would exclude others has been added since).  So the patents from first gen road are expiring now or shortly.

The main problem with electronic groupsets is that SRAM were granted a ridiculously broad patent re: removable batteries.  It's possible to get around but is generally a joke, never represented any significant innovation or R&D spend, and has seriously stifled competition and choice and pricing for consumers.

[jonathanf2]

The very earliest Di2 was released in 2001. But patents will probably date a couple of years earlier so have already expired.  What we recognize as Di2 I think was 2009 release, but patents IIRC go back at least 3 or 4 years prior.  Not a great deal that would exclude others has been added since).  So the patents from first gen road are expiring now or shortly.

The main problem with electronic groupsets is that SRAM were granted a ridiculously broad patent re: removable batteries.  It's possible to get around but is generally a joke, never represented any significant innovation or R&D spend, and has seriously stifled competition and choice and pricing for consumers.

I feel like SRAM in general are just a bunch of d**ks. I reviewed many of their patents and they even filed patents from interns. They're using the broken US patent system to stifle any and all innovation and then lawyer up. One of my bike buddies was complaining how one SRAM RED shifter cost almost $700 USD, and I told him both my gravel and road LTwoo groupsets cost less than that!   

[zilcho]

I feel like SRAM in general are just a bunch of d**ks. I reviewed many of their patents and they even filed patents from interns. They're using the broken US patent system to stifle any and all innovation and then lawyer up. One of my bike buddies was complaining how one SRAM RED shifter cost almost $700 USD, and I told him both my gravel and road LTwoo groupsets cost less than that!   

The system is absolutely broken but SRAM is just playing the game at this point, they're all multinational corporations trying to turn a profit. Shimano did this for years and has some equally asinine patents. They're the reason SRAM double tap exists and why lower tier brands were stuck with thumb shifters.

[amacal1]

I'm aleady all in with LTwoo for both gravel and road. First gen ER9/X are a bit rough around the edges, but I can already see most of those design issues ironed out with the EGR which is more like 1.5 gen. Though it's still too early to see who'll come out on top. LTwoo, Wheeltop and soon to be Magene, all seem to offer compelling features.

Yep, this is my impression from Ltwoo. Not sure what happened to stall their "blue" 2nd gen Erx/Er9, but the eGR that was released after those is the one I bought. It's been killer for me and is still going strong after 1000mi. I'm super intrigued by the fact that others have confirmed that the brifters and RD/FD are wirelessly cross compatible across all of those. I've been following the road and gravel groups for these closely and can summarize it as er9/erx seem to be good for some but some issues cropping up for others while the eGR has had so few complaints it makes me wonder if anyone even bought any. The more time goes on and the more people I see seem to have had them makes me think there are just genuinely very few (almost none) issues with them.

[Glen]

St George Cycling Team from Australia are running the new Magene groupset for 2025

[Daviddavieboy]

St George Cycling Team from Australia are running the new Magene groupset for 2025

 If that is the case it could be up to a year before the plebs get a chance to buy them. I would be on board - I just bought a second SRAM wireless group and it still hurts to bend over.

[estingo]

I'm a satisfied user of the Wheeltop EDX, since October last year. There are now following up on reliability vids on YouTube, like OZ cycle he did 4 weeks ago a video of the long term review with 4000km. Trace Velo has had a negative comment on the FD but is very happy with his Ltwoo so it just depends how you look at it. I think if you do not hear a lot about it, there is not really a lot to complain.

[amacal1]

I think if you do not hear a lot about it, there is not really a lot to complain.

This has been what I think is going on with the Ltwoo eGR. Either they didn't sell many of them (which I maybe used to think) or they sold a bunch of them (which is what I now think) and there has been very, very little to talk about.