Winspace C5 BB concerns/carbon quality

[BeR]

the longer this drags out, the more annoyed I get. The returned frame has been sitting in a warehouse in Shenzhen for 11 days because they messed up the commercial invoice. They classified it as a "sample" rather than a "return," which is a thing they do to avoid import duties. They also declared the value as 150 USD, which is another standard way to avoid import duties. I'm not sure which part (or maybe it was both) the customs clearance people didn't like. I tried to send an updated invoice a few days ago but it's still sitting there so I'm not sure they were happy enough with my update. I also asked Winspace to deal with it earlier last week, because it was their mess up to begin with. So far they have done nothing.

Winspace won't send a replacement until they receive the original frame back... and it's starting to feel like they're actively trying to not get the returned frame 

Have you tried to post your bad experience on social media (youtube, ...) and comments all the videos or posts which promote this brand ?

[00Garza]

Have you tried to post your bad experience on social media (youtube, ...) and comments all the videos or posts which promote this brand ?

This is a good strategy. Hit up their popular influencers and try to get some traction in the comments. Tag winspace as much as possible.

[Blueberry]

This is a good strategy. Hit up their popular influencers and try to get some traction in the comments. Tag winspace as much as possible.

I do think this is a good idea, I'll definitely go down that road if I need.
Once I sent the screenshot of UPS saying the frame was undeliverable to Winspace that seemed to motivate them to finally sort out the customs issue. The tracking has updated again, now it's back to just saying that its "pending a resolution" rather than "undeliverable." I think they'll send the stupid replacement at some point but this whole situation is still really frustrating. I would hope the extra mark up on their frames could go to better customer support but I guess it does not.

After bugging the support agent on their website's chat, they emailed me back and said they're working on the customs situation (this time I think they might be telling the truth, based on the updated tracking) and they think the returned frame will arrive to them this week.

[noseparade]

How did you pay them? if it was through VISA or Paypal you can ask for a charge back (paypal calls them disputes). I had to open one with ICAN when they sent me a frame with a messed up headtube. Money was sent back to me within the week

[Blueberry]

How did you pay them? if it was through VISA or Paypal you can ask for a charge back (paypal calls them disputes). I had to open one with ICAN when they sent me a frame with a messed up headtube. Money was sent back to me within the week

I paid with a credit card, I am waiting to receive the replacement before taking any action though.

After 3 weeks, the frame made it back to Winspace, they still claim it is within their standards, which tells me their standards are crap and people shouldn't give them their money. They confirmed they received the frame and told me I could proceed with the exchange, or if I wanted a refund, they would give me a refund but only for the 1380 USD I initially paid, not the additional 200 USD I paid for "shipping" the returned frame. To me, this seemed ridiculous. It says right in the the memo line for the additional payment that it was for the exchange service, not "shipping." Seems like the very definition of a bait and switch. Pretty darn scammy, holy cow. The only reason I am accepting a new/exchanged frame is because it's the frame my friend wanted. If it was for me, I would have just sent it back, done a chargeback and been done with Winspace forever.

[JohnnyRabbit]

I would convince your friend to get refunded and chargeback as you are going to be the one dealing with them if something else happen but I might be wrong.

I didn't expect to see that coming from Winspace. Looks like they are now taking their customers for granted since they build a reasonably good reputation.

I only dealt with Carbonda so far and they argued with me on a defect inside near the headtube of my CFR1056 and kept telling me it's normal.

Influencers and such get the pretty frames no doubt.

This was my first and last buy from a chinese factory.

[JohnnyRabbit]

So you're left with buying frames from Time, then? I love what they're doing, but it's quite a budget.

I meant that I'm mostly done with carbon in general for frames. A Time would be very nice and a safer investment on the long term in my opinion. I will just stick with aluminum and steel from now on! 

[Blueberry]

One week ago today, I told Winspace that if they did not ship the replacement frame by March 28th, I would file a dispute with my credit card company but would cancel the dispute if/when I receive the replacement frame in acceptable condition. I wanted to do this because, as I told them, "My bank allows 60 days from the charge date to file a dispute, and this window is closing soon."

They did not respond directly to this email but emailed me back 4 days later to confirm that they received my frame back and that "upon the inspection, the BB area you complaint, is within our standard." On April 1 they emailed me to tell me the replacement had shipped. Then they started emailing me at 6am (my time, 9pm their time) on April 3 to tell me that they could not proceed with the shipment unless I cancel the dispute. I did not cancel the dispute as they have sent me no proof they shipped the frame and I have not received anything. 

Maybe this is a bad habit but almost every time Winspace emails me, I copy/paste it into ChatGPT and ask if they're acting sus. ChatGPT pretty much always says, yes. In this case it also said, in bold letters, "Do not cancel the dispute until you confirm the shipment is real." along with a few other helpful things including, "That sounds like a classic pressure tactic to get you to drop the dispute. If you cancel it, you may lose any leverage you have to get your money back if they continue to delay or don’t ship at all."

It also all seems ridiculous, considering I gave them advanced notice this was going to happen, and they never directly responded.

[dolph]

Terrible service, I really regret buying from them. I hope that my frame arrives in OK condition, I was expecting a decent product and good service in case it wasn't. Sadly, it seems that winspace has gone cheap.

[Blueberry]

Terrible service, I really regret buying from them. I hope that my frame arrives in OK condition, I was expecting a decent product and good service in case it wasn't. Sadly, it seems that winspace has gone cheap.

Hopefully there's no issues for you but keep us posted!

[Ludo]

Si Space on the no buy list. If I am gobe take a chance with quality I might as well go with BXT and the likes…

[Blueberry]

Yep, Winspace is holding my replacement frame hostage in Hong Kong and won't pass it off to UPS until I cancel the dispute. I told them that if they continue to do this, I will also dispute the $200 exchange charge since I am not receiving an exchange. I cannot recommend against Winspace strongly enough, their customer service is starting to rival United Health Care.

[Blueberry]

Blackmail now? lol.
Cut your losses. Get a refund. Tell them to a eat a dick. And buy something else.
Do you really want to ride a frame after all this sourness?

Maybe closer to extortion 

I got chatGPT to draft a response explaining to Winspace that refusing to fulfill an order just because a dispute has been filed is a violation of their merchant terms of service with Visa. I'm hoping that, by pointing this out, Winspace realizes, as a retailer who accepts credit card payments, they are beholden to more than just me/their customer. The fact they are blatantly ignoring those terms of service is wild.

The reason I am continuing to push them for the frame is because we already bought components specific to the C5 that I would need to swap out if I get a different frame. The C5 has a short top tube/reach so we got a 110 stem instead of my friend's usual 100mm. Additionally, with new Trump tariffs I'm worried other frames could end up costing a lot more or even having to go through this whole process again with a different seller and added tariff complications. I'm slightly scarred from recently buying a groupset on Ebay and missing the fact that it was shipping from Japan. I got slapped with an extra $104 in duties/fees upon delivery on top of the local sales tax I already paid. One of the lessons from all this is probably that my business instincts aren't great.

[Blueberry]

So the final conclusion to this story is, they refused to ship the frame because of the dispute, despite the violation of there terms with their own payment processors. I get my money back and now I go source a new frame from somewhere else. Sucks to have to deal with these new tariffs though. Definitely going to take my time figuring out how to proceed and also to see if these tariffs last.

If anyone can think of a UCI certified frame with short reach that uses bb86, I'm all ears. Getting a frame that fits the parts I already have would be ideal.

[Sakizashi]

So the final conclusion to this story is, they refused to ship the frame because of the dispute, despite the violation of there terms with their own payment processors. I get my money back and now I go source a new frame from somewhere else. Sucks to have to deal with these new tariffs though. Definitely going to take my time figuring out how to proceed and also to see if these tariffs last.

If anyone can think of a UCI certified frame with short reach that uses bb86, I'm all ears. Getting a frame that fits the parts I already have would be ideal.

I think you are US based?

Not sure I would be so invested in the cost of a BB, but there is a seller on ebay (roymcavoy9) selling Van Dessel Arch65 frames for $699, including free shipping. It's a better deal than from their website, where it's $999. I think this is a Works Well frame with a "premium layup" of t700/m60 CF. I've bought a frame from this seller, and I am pretty sure they are associated with the brands. This frame should meet all of your criteria, I'm not sure about geometry since I don't know your size, but it should be similar too.

3T Strada frames from Cyclelimited are also available for $800 in some sizes. I have no opinion on whether it's a better or worse option, but the ICR frames are 1x only, and with the Steerer and 386evo BB, you have fewer options.

Hope this helps you get things back on track.