help selecting 12s XD cassette with Ltwoo eGR

[camineet]

Hi guys,

I've put together a setup that isn't working.

Ltwoo eGR

a set of wheels with an XD freehub

This XD 12s 10-50t cassette:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806918139836.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.10.5dce1802vfH5dm&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Unfortunately, the derailleur can't shift the chain to the lowest 50t gear.

When I purchased the eGR, I remember watching this Trace Velo video wherein he says the eGR official specs say it can only work with an 11-46t cassette, but that he finds that it will also work with an 11-50t cassette starting at this timestamp.

https://youtu.be/JRpUea_4UmE?si=AwU3Gf6ug68E9p6Q&t=197

I only paid attention to the 50t number when watching this video and then went on to purchase the 10-50t XD cassette above not realizing there is a difference. The 11-50t is obviously an HG cassette, and the 10-50t is an XD cassette.

While Trace Velo may have found that an 11-50t cassette works with the eGR, I have found that my setup doesn't work and am trying to find an XD cassette that is perhaps 10-46t to most closely match what is stated by eGR on compatibility. The attached eGR instructions state that they recommend 11-46T 12S cassette. There are no page numbers in the attached doc. But if you search for 11-46T 12S cassette in the PDF, you'll see.

Do you guys think an XD 10-46t cassette will work? Can you recommend one? I'm having a hard time finding one on aliexpress. Black preferred.

I don't suppose there's any way to get the cassette I purchased to work. I've tried shortening the chain to get the deraulleur to be pulled harder and spaced out enough to go over the 50t gear. And it will shift onto the 50t gear with some effort but then grinds against the cog on the derailleur. It doesn't seem like there's any way to get that setup to work.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[amacal1]

Not sure about why your XD cassette won't work, but I've used a cheap Ali-x 11-50t with my eGR that uses an HG hub.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805811005103.html

This is the one I've used, and I have the 12s 11-50t variant. But... 50t is 50t, right? So, I would think yours should be able to work.

I will say, though. It *barely* works. I have to open the tension screw to its max and make sure my end-stop locations are set correctly and the micro-adjust is also set correctly for it to shift into the 50t position. And, even then, I've had it bind and refuse to shift if I shift too fast, and the derailleur doesn't open up fully on the 38t and 44t position before attempting to shift into the 50t position. So, I'm sure you can probably get it to work, but you should be mindful that overall shifting performance will be impacted and you will have to shift 1-at-a-time into the 50t gear for the last 1-2 shift. My eGR shifted amazingly well as a 11-46t 10sp, but now that it's 12sp and I have it backed away so far from the cassette to clear the 50t cog it shift a little more slowly and hesitantly, overall. Not bad, just not amazing.

[Serge_K]

Fwiw, having installed ER9 on multiple bikes, we found that it's easier to get crisp shifting on 11s than 12s. Given that all it takes is pressing a button in the app to change, you might make your life easier w a 11s drive train. A 12s chain will work on a 11s setup.

[camineet]

Fwiw, having installed ER9 on multiple bikes, we found that it's easier to get crisp shifting on 11s than 12s. Given that all it takes is pressing a button in the app to change, you might make your life easier w a 11s drive train. A 12s chain will work on a 11s setup.

Can you suggest a good 11s XD cassette that would work?

[camineet]

I can't seem to find any 10-46t 12s or any 11s XD cassette. Must be something wrong with how I'm searching on aliexpress. It only wants to present me with HG cassettes. Hoping you guys might be able to point me to something suitable.

My goals are to get good climbing ability, which is why I originally went for the 50t cassette. If I can't have that, I at least hope for reasonably good climbing with a 46t unit.

I'm reluctant to try to get 50t cassette I have to work in the ways amacal1 described because my original goal with this upgrade was to get very smooth and easy shifting. So, hoping to find a cassette that's black, 46t for proper functioning on the eGR, and reasonably good climbing.

Gotta say, I'm really regretting not buying the HG version of my carbon wheelset. I've already had to re-buy the front wheel from the seller on aliexpress because I originally bought the boost version, and that doesn't fit on my bike. So, now waiting on another front non-boost wheel to arrive after talking to the local shop about a rebuild of the wheel I bought on a non-boost hub and giving up on that.

Now looking at possibly having to rebuy the rear wheel as well with an HG hub? And having to rebuy a cassette that's HG instead of XD.

Good lord. I guess I'll do that if I have to.

Keep the replies coming if any more are on offer. I'd really appreciate it.

[jonathanf2]

Can you suggest a good 11s XD cassette that would work?

Skip all the AliEx XD 11 speed cassettes. They use flimsy alloy big cogs. Get a Sunrace 11 speed 10-46t cassette and call it day. It's a bit heavier, but if you're climbing, the alloy big cog is more durable than any of the AliEx cassettes. I constantly use my 46t cog on the Sunrace cassette and there's barely any wear.

[camineet]

Skip all the AliEx XD 11 speed cassettes. They use flimsy alloy big cogs. Get a Sunrace 11 speed 10-46t cassette and call it day. It's a bit heavier, but if you're climbing, the alloy big cog is more durable than any of the AliEx cassettes. I constantly use my 46t cog on the Sunrace cassette and there's barely any wear.

Can you link me on that? I'd like to make the buy and get it into shipping asap.

Are you talking about this?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807933293659.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21111.00%21111.00%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000043870032081%21ppc%21%21%21&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albagn=888888&ds_e_adid=&ds_e_matchtype=&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=x&ds_e_product_group_id=&ds_e_product_id=en3256807933293659&ds_e_product_merchant_id=108892434&ds_e_product_country=US&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=19623912707&albag=&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2us

[jonathanf2]

Can you link me on that? I'd like to make the buy and get it into shipping asap.

Are you talking about this?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807933293659.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21111.00%21111.00%21%21%21%21%21%40%2112000043870032081%21ppc%21%21%21&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albagn=888888&ds_e_adid=&ds_e_matchtype=&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=x&ds_e_product_group_id=&ds_e_product_id=en3256807933293659&ds_e_product_merchant_id=108892434&ds_e_product_country=US&ds_e_product_language=en&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=19623912707&albag=&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2us

Yes that one. If you're in the US, you can buy the same cassette on Ebay or locally for under $100 USD. Also get it in silver, Sunrace black cassettes easily lose their coating.

[jonathanf2]

I can't seem to find any 10-46t 12s or any 11s XD cassette. Must be something wrong with how I'm searching on aliexpress. It only wants to present me with HG cassettes. Hoping you guys might be able to point me to something suitable.

My goals are to get good climbing ability, which is why I originally went for the 50t cassette. If I can't have that, I at least hope for reasonably good climbing with a 46t unit.

I'm reluctant to try to get 50t cassette I have to work in the ways amacal1 described because my original goal with this upgrade was to get very smooth and easy shifting. So, hoping to find a cassette that's black, 46t for proper functioning on the eGR, and reasonably good climbing.

Gotta say, I'm really regretting not buying the HG version of my carbon wheelset. I've already had to re-buy the front wheel from the seller on aliexpress because I originally bought the boost version, and that doesn't fit on my bike. So, now waiting on another front non-boost wheel to arrive after talking to the local shop about a rebuild of the wheel I bought on a non-boost hub and giving up on that.

Now looking at possibly having to rebuy the rear wheel as well with an HG hub? And having to rebuy a cassette that's HG instead of XD.

Good lord. I guess I'll do that if I have to.

Keep the replies coming if any more are on offer. I'd really appreciate it.

Bro you should do your research. ZTTO does sell 9-46/9-50t/10-50t cassettes in 11 and 12 speed. Though as I mentioned their big alloy cogs are not very durable. Also many wheelsets use swappable freehubs. I easily switch back-n-forth with HG/XD freehubs on the same rear wheel. They sell both DT style and 6 pawl freehubs that can be swapped out. Lastly if you had a 15x100 boost front wheel, they sell 12x100mm adapters for like $5 USD. Unless your wheel is 15x110mm, then you'll have an issue! 

[camineet]

got a comment within the file shared on my drive

Pavlo KhryshcheniukNew
Hey. Did you adjust the b-screw? Try using the correctly sized chain and once in the second largest cog, tighten the b-screw so that it could clear the largest cog without grinding. 3-4?? Should be enough

[camineet]

I have just now figured out that posting a youtube video on chinertown requires (at least requires me) to post it with a timestamp rather than posting the normal link to the video. So, I can finally post videos providing context to my questions here. You have to click share and then "start at 00:01" or some seconds. Finally, here is my video for context on this issue.

https://youtu.be/9bXcczg1hOg?si=wJVUxJ0aW6uemAC6&t=6

[camineet]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback so far. The first thing I want to try is making another attempt to get this setup to work by correctly sizing the chain and then using the derailleur's built in adjustment capabilities to see what kind of result I can get.

So far, I've either sized the chain too small, or too big and therefore have not gotten a true idea of whether or not this system can work. The first time sizing the chain, I used the method for a 2x system. I am now seeing that a 1x system requires 4 links past the zero or reference point where the two chain ends meet after putting them on the single front chainring and the largest rear chainring. I had previously only sized the chain with 2 additional links.

I thereafter tried a number of sizes, but never the exact correct size of 4 additional links because I have just now happened upon the reasoning for this sizing 1x vs 2x sizing.

Now I can see that the Ltwoo eGR instructions in fact recommends 5 additional links including the quicklink. I'll have to try this and then see if by adjusting the derailleur's tension screws, which I'm not familiar with, will get a suitable result.

[amacal1]

I thereafter tried a number of sizes, but never the exact correct size of 4 additional links because I have just now happened upon the reasoning for this sizing 1x vs 2x sizing.

Now I can see that the Ltwoo eGR instructions in fact recommends 5 additional links including the quicklink. I'll have to try this and then see if by adjusting the derailleur's tension screws, which I'm not familiar with, will get a suitable result.

This might very well be your problem. I used the exact method specified in the eGR manual (5 links) and it works fine. I can also understand your confusion, because it is VERY confusing why a chain that is too long might prevent you from shifting into the largest gear (though obvious why a chain too short might not shift well). But, from my own experience, I can easily see, now, why a chain too long wouldn't work.

It's the same issue I described when I said that you have to shift slowly (last 2 gears one-at-a-time) for the 50t cog to work. The derailleur needs to be made to expand and create more clearance. If the chain is too long, the derailleur isn't forced to expand as much and the extra clearance doesn't happen. You can see this with the chain off. If you try to force the derailleur open, you can watch extra clearance be created between the cassette and the derailleur wheel.

Honestly, now that I am forced to think about it, I recall experiencing this when I first installed the groupset and was wondering if I had set something wrong on the b-screw or the end points. However, having followed the 5 link instruction my issue quickly disappeared for reasons I don't think I fully understood until just now, and I never really thought about it again.

[camineet]

This might very well be your problem. I used the exact method specified in the eGR manual (5 links) and it works fine. I can also understand your confusion, because it is VERY confusing why a chain that is too long might prevent you from shifting into the largest gear (though obvious why a chain too short might not shift well). But, from my own experience, I can easily see, now, why a chain too long wouldn't work.

It's the same issue I described when I said that you have to shift slowly (last 2 gears one-at-a-time) for the 50t cog to work. The derailleur needs to be made to expand and create more clearance. If the chain is too long, the derailleur isn't forced to expand as much and the extra clearance doesn't happen. You can see this with the chain off. If you try to force the derailleur open, you can watch extra clearance be created between the cassette and the derailleur wheel.

Honestly, now that I am forced to think about it, I recall experiencing this when I first installed the groupset and was wondering if I had set something wrong on the b-screw or the end points. However, having followed the 5 link instruction my issue quickly disappeared for reasons I don't think I fully understood until just now, and I never really thought about it again.

Check this out. Here's where I've managed to get it. Working, but not well. And as I mention in the video, I've got it at 6 links past reference including the quicklink. I can either go 4, or 6. 5 isn't possible.

https://youtu.be/Ofv9SVh4hVI?si=xJLL98TLOPlDOwdf&t=15

What do you think? Maybe I'll try the 4 link option.

[camineet]

Ok I tried it with the 4 link option and multiple different positions of the b screw. It's not any better. Gear 2 is still really rough and even causes the chain to lock up sometimes.

So, I think I've got to try a 10-46t to just ease the load on this system.

The whole reason I want e-shifting is for smoother shifting without the compromises of cable shifting whereby you can't even make per-gear adjustments. That limitation annoyed me from the age of 12 back in the late 80's when I got my first roadbike. I knew and felt back then that one adjustment for all the gears was just dumb.