XM Carbon Speed - "Gran Tourismo" Frameset

[Rebel_Yell]

Hi, so what's up with the various decal options and the name of the bike ?
I'm very tempted by this one...

If you are talking about my blue and green frame, I got the decals made by Speedy Decal.  Super service and very fast. 

[JeffD]

If you are talking about my blue and green frame, I got the decals made by Speedy Decal.  Super service and very fast.

Nope, was asking about the factory options. But custom decals are great !

[Bobinski]

If you are talking about my blue and green frame, I got the decals made by Speedy Decal.  Super service and very fast.

So, painted by carbonspeed but no decals? You applied your own?

[Rebel_Yell]

So, painted by carbonspeed but no decals? You applied your own?

Yes.  Painted by XMCS before they started putting decals on so I asked Peter to send me decals but they need to be heated to install correctly.  I didn’t have much luck with that so I ordered my own and love the way they turned out.

[JeffD]

Hi,

Why is there so much difference in price with the other XMCS carbon frames ?
A CS-R01 is only $600…

[rsw42]

They use(d) cheaper Carbon and less refined layups... The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price... Expect everything that comes from them to be in the GT range for the time coming... Also the rumoured race frame will be more likely in the GT price area (or above?) than in the area of the old models

[Rebel_Yell]

They use(d) cheaper Carbon and less refined layups... The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price... Expect everything that comes from them to be in the GT range for the time coming... Also the rumoured race frame will be more likely in the GT price area (or above?) than in the area of the old models

Where did you get all of that information?

[rsw42]

Had a brief conversation about different carbon layups and qualities with Peter since I've ordered a gravel frame after my GT...

I think his words were "but you know that it's not as good as the GT frame?" (Top sales argument 🤣)

[Rebel_Yell]

Had a brief conversation about different carbon layups and qualities with Peter since I've ordered a gravel frame after my GT...

I think his words were "but you know that it's not as good as the GT frame?" (Top sales argument 🤣)

Thanks

[JonnyFlyburg]

The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price...

Would be really good to have more concrete/quantitative information on this.
Would be valuable when comparing to other options like the LCR018-D, https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6333.0.html

[JeffD]

They use(d) cheaper Carbon and less refined layups... The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price... Expect everything that comes from them to be in the GT range for the time coming... Also the rumoured race frame will be more likely in the GT price area (or above?) than in the area of the old models

I understand, but it’s 2.5x the price at the moment ($1500 w/bar vs $600).

[rsw42]

Would be really good to have more concrete/quantitative information on this.
Would be valuable when comparing to other options like the LCR018-D, https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6333.0.html

On the xmcs homepage they state which carbon fibres they use: t800 for GT, t700 for the others (except for the gravel, don't find it instantly)...
The other thing is (pure speculation on my part here!!): open mold vs designing your own thing... Is bet that the gravel comes from an open mold, while the GT is completely individually designed... If you share your mold with nanny others you can produce higher numbers and therefore cost per piece for design etc should go down... Probably there is also other economy of scales factors involved...

If I think about when I've heard about the race frame for the first time and how long it's been I bet this is an individual design... I know that the GT was an individual design and that there have been some tweaks to it since my very first GT (the Seatpost topic!)

I'm afraid that's the way many high quality brands are going... If you've got people there who are passionate about what they are doing and want to offer high quality, the continuous increase in quality will affect prices...
Hambini called xmcs "the next winspace" and many around here already said they were scared that this would mean an increase in prices...

As for the GT I can say: if the price/quality ratio stays the same I'm happy (since all of the prototype problems were sorted out and I should have a new Seatpost by tomorrow)...
But I guess there's just different demands and offerings...

[JeffD]

open mold vs designing your own thing... Is bet that the gravel comes from an open mold, while the GT is completely individually designed... If you share your mold with nanny others you can produce higher numbers and therefore cost per piece for design etc should go down... Probably there is also other economy of scales factors involved...

Isn’t the Lightcarbon LCR018 a completely new design ?
Still way cheaper than the GT, while using T700/T800/T1100 carbon fiber.

I’m not bashing XMCS, just want to know what justifies such a price.

[rsw42]

Sorry if I haven't been exact enough Jeff, I don't know enough about the Lightcarbon offerings to compare them to the XMCS Frames... I was only referring to the older XMCS-Framesets and compared pricing of them to the pricing of the GT...

Whatever I'd say about Lightcarbon Framesets and bikes would probably wrong - I only had contact with them once and the answers were so much not to my liking that I didn't bother any further with them... (was about weight limit issues and - while their answers were correct and friendly - didn't help me any step further, no alternatives offered or anything... just a "then don't buy here" kinda thing... same reason why I don't bother with cube bikes anymore)

Now back to the GT for just one second: The reason why I got the GT is it's geometry. When I bought it there was no alternative to give me the position i could ride (except for the Pinarello X, but that wasn't an option for price reasons)... I don't know anything about the LCR018 since I can't find it on their homepage and don't know about the geometry of the bike...
But if it's not close to the GT it's just not a relevant comparison... seriously: if you are proper fit and want to ride a long racy bike, the GT is not for you... if you can't go long racy for whatever reason - the GT is a valid option worth it's money - and I haven't seen a competitor (price wise) in that categorie so far...

Hope this clarifys my statement and helps you on...
(and please keep on taking my opinion with a grain of doubt)

[rsw42]

Before I'll do an edit I just do another post...

Just seen the LCR018 frameset with a little help of this forum...

If I compare them geometry wise: XMCS GT has a higher stack2reach-ratio - meaning it will put you in a more upright position - even though it's designed to be a Road bike and not an All-Road or even Gravely bike...
Seat Tube angle is quite different and LCR018 has got a longer wheelbase, so I believe that the handling of the two bikes would be quite different... Geometrywise I'd expect the LCR018 to feel a bit more planted, calmer if you want while I'd expect the GT to be more "snappy" (even though it doesn't feel snappy to me, compared to my BMC Teammachine)...

From a bike fit point of view I'd say the GT offers a more relaxed position for riders with short torsos or low flexibility... while the LCR offers more versatility due to wider tire clearance and the longer wheelbase for a more stable feeling... I wouldn't be too stable on the LCR though since I'd need quite a big spacer tower to ride it comfortable...

coming to the price discussion again... I've got no idea... but as far as I see the difference will most likely be in economy of scales... Lightcarbon has (afaik) a much higher volume in what they are producing etc... so I actually wouldn't believe the difference is only due to quality reasons... the LCR018 seems to be a good deal if it fits your needs...