Zen Carbon Wheels Xiamen

[Sander2177]

What's everyone's thoughts on Ti Spokes? I've been waiting for these 60mm Vaporlite 2's to come to market but never really considered Ti spokes on a road wheelset. I have read the XMCS posts by Peter about their Ti spoked options but has anyone been using them?

For a very minor weight penalty over carbon spokes, they seem like a good option. With so many options these days I'm having trouble making a decision. This wheelset will be used mostly on a Cervelo S5 in place of the stock Reserve 64/57 wheelset which is awesomely aero and stable but a bit heavy. Sander has been a huge help but we didn't talk about Ti spokes.

Personally, I probably wouldn’t choose the titanium-spoke option.

For example if the titanium and steel versions use 24 spokes front and rear with for example a 1:1 hub lacing, whereas the carbon version is 20/20 which is the normso it isn’t a completely like-for-like comparison. Even with fewer spokes, the carbon-spoke build could still be the stiffer wheel because carbon spokes are normally much wider and have very high axial stiffness.
I would say Ti would be more suited to MTB or Gravel.
Maybe someone here has a road Ti spoke Wheelset and can give there impressions

For general riding, titanium spokes may be absolutely fine, but on a deep 60mm wheelset fitted to an S5, I’d personally lean towards carbon spokes for performance or steel spokes for long-term reliability and easier replacement. Titanium seems to sit somewhere between the two: lighter than steel and possibly a little more compliant, but with less long-term user feedback.

Rider weight and power are also worth considering. Everyone talks about wheel stiffness, but how noticeable it is can be quite subjective.


Why not consider carbon spokes?
I do not find carbons spoke wheel give a harsh ride anymore.
We’re no longer riding 23mm tyres on narrow rims at 100psi. With a 25mm internal rim, 30 or 32mm tyres and sensible pressures—I run around 52/56psi—the tyres provide most of the comfort.

[Rallyfocus]

Thanks for the input as always Sander 2177. Everything you mentioned aligns with my less informed thoughts as well about Ti Spokes. Maybe I'll give them a try on a gravel wheelset down the road.

I'm leaning towards the Race Layup, Ultra Series ZC235RC hubs, laced with 3.2mm spokes and hidden nipples. Or maybe 3.1mm spokes and no holes in the rim bed. I'm about 75kg and don't mid a ride on the stiffer side. For the sake of 60g additional weight I don't think the ultra-light layup is for me given our rough roads.

[Sander2177]

Thanks for the input as always Sander 2177. Everything you mentioned aligns with my less informed thoughts as well about Ti Spokes. Maybe I'll give them a try on a gravel wheelset down the road.

I'm leaning towards the Race Layup, Ultra Series ZC235RC hubs, laced with 3.2mm spokes and hidden nipples. Or maybe 3.1mm spokes and no holes in the rim bed. I'm about 75kg and don't mid a ride on the stiffer side. For the sake of 60g additional weight I don't think the ultra-light layup is for me given our rough roads.

No worries mate, you’re not less well informed—the information is out there.

I’ve been looking at these quite a bit myself. Zen also now offer 4.0mm and 5.2mm hidden-nipple carbon spokes, as well as the lighter ZC215Rc hub.

What’s interesting is that the 4.0mm and 5.2mm hidden spokes sit roughly in the middle of the 3.2mm hidden and the 3.25/3.95/4.5/5.1mm regular spokes in terms of their technical specification.

Weight-wise:

* 3.1mm regular = 2.1g (including nipple)
* 3.2mm hidden = 2.1g (including nipple)
* 4.0mm & 5.2mm hidden = 2.7g
* 3.25mm, 3.95mm, 4.5mm & 5.1mm regular = 3.5g

So if you’re looking for a bit of a balance and have any concerns about stiffness, I’d probably be looking at the 4.0mm hidden spokes. You only give up around 24g compared to the 3.2mm hidden build, but on paper they look like a nice compromise between weight and stiffness. It’s certainly an option worth considering.

[Rolle2k]

I'm also considering these, but in really interested in the TiX Aero spokes option. Service wide they will probably be better, especially if one buys a few spare spokes. They will not be as stiff, and Zen first told me CX-RAY is better for road wheelset, but then i told them that im only 69kg weight, and they said that they will work fine for me.
As i have understood Ti stretches kind a bit more than steel.
So im really considering Ti as a serious option... I got a little bit off about carbon spokes after i saw Pandapodium test of Ti polymer spokes on youtube. This is what kind of turned me back to either CX-RAY, Alpina hyperlite or these new TiX Aero spokes.

[ZenCarbonBike]

Good day, CHINERTOWN members,

Just a quick update regarding hub options.

While most of our wheelsets are typically built around our own lightweight hubs or H-Works hubs, we can also build custom wheelsets using a wide range of premium hubs to suit different priorities, whether that’s low weight, durability, engagement or serviceability.

Current hub options include:

* DT Swiss 180 – Premium ceramic-bearing hubset. Lightweight, reliable and easy to service, making it a popular choice for premium road builds.

* DT Swiss 240 – Excellent balance of weight, durability and value. One of the benchmark hubs for performance road and gravel wheelsets.

* DT Swiss 350 – Slightly heavier than the 240 but renowned for exceptional reliability and easy maintenance. A great option for high-mileage riders.

* Carbon-Ti – Ultra-lightweight Italian-made hubs featuring titanium and carbon construction. An excellent choice for riders chasing the lowest possible wheelset weights.

* Extralite – Among the lightest production hubs available. Precision CNC machined in Italy and ideal for premium lightweight builds.

* Tune – German-made lightweight hubs with a long history in weight-conscious custom wheel builds, combining low weight with proven performance.

* Chris King – Manufactured in the USA and widely regarded for outstanding machining quality, durability and the distinctive RingDrive engagement system. Built to last for decades with excellent serviceability.

* White Industries – Another premium USA manufacturer, known for beautifully machined hubs, smooth bearings and exceptional long-term reliability.

If anyone has a preferred hub that isn’t listed above, feel free to ask. We can often source additional premium hubs for custom builds depending on availability.

As always, the best hub depends on your priorities—whether that’s achieving the lowest possible weight, maximum durability, fast engagement, ease of servicing or simply a particular aesthetic.

Happy to answer any question so please get in touch with us using the contact information below.

[mtm]

No worries mate, you’re not less well informed—the information is out there.

I’ve been looking at these quite a bit myself. Zen also now offer 4.0mm and 5.2mm hidden-nipple carbon spokes, as well as the lighter ZC215Rc hub.

What’s interesting is that the 4.0mm and 5.2mm hidden spokes sit roughly in the middle of the 3.2mm hidden and the 3.25/3.95/4.5/5.1mm regular spokes in terms of their technical specification.

Weight-wise:

* 3.1mm regular = 2.1g (including nipple)
* 3.2mm hidden = 2.1g (including nipple)
* 4.0mm & 5.2mm hidden = 2.7g
* 3.25mm, 3.95mm, 4.5mm & 5.1mm regular = 3.5g

So if you’re looking for a bit of a balance and have any concerns about stiffness, I’d probably be looking at the 4.0mm hidden spokes. You only give up around 24g compared to the 3.2mm hidden build, but on paper they look like a nice compromise between weight and stiffness. It’s certainly an option worth considering.

Do you know (or maybe Zen can answer here) the thickness and cross-sectional profile of the 4.0mm spokes? I'm guessing at the round ends they are Ø2.2mm so similar stiffness to the other "heavy" carbon spokes.

[ZenCarbonBike]

Do you know (or maybe Zen can answer here) the thickness and cross-sectional profile of the 4.0mm spokes? I'm guessing at the round ends they are Ø2.2mm so similar stiffness to the other "heavy" carbon spokes.

Good day

Yes Round Ends 2.2mm
Specifications below nipples included

               

CS01   3.10±0.15mm   0.98±0.05mm   2.1±0.1g   350kgf   280kgf   80kgf
CS02   3.25±0.15mm   1.45±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS03   3.95±0.15mm   1.25±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS04   4.5±0.2mm   1.17±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS05   5.1±0.1mm   0.9±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS06   5.9±0.1mm   0.75±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf

Hidden nipple spokes
CS07    3.2±0.15mm   0.98±0.05mm   2.05±0.1g   350kgf   280kgf   80kgf

CS08   5.2±0.2mm   1.17±0.05mm   2.7±0.1g   450kgf   320kgf   100kgf

CS09.        4.0±0.2mm   1.22±0.05mm   2.7±0.1g   450kgf   320kgf   100kgf

[ZenCarbonBike]

Zen Carbon – Spoke Options

One of the questions we’re asked most is why we offer so many spoke options.

The answer is simple: there is no single “best” spoke. Every spoke represents a compromise between weight, stiffness, fatigue life, aerodynamics, durability and cost.

Rather than forcing every customer into one specification, we offer a wide range of spoke options so wheelsets can be built around the rider’s priorities.

Steel

Sapim
CX-Ray Super – 4.3g
CX-Ray – 5.0g
CX-Ray Stainless (Silver) – 5.0g
Race – 6.4g
Leader – 7.2g

Pillar
PSR1420 – 5.0g
Wing 20 – 5.0g
PSR1423 – 6.9g

Alpina
Hyperlite Round – 3.84g
Hyperlite Aero – 3.84g
Ultralight Round – 4.54g
Ultralight Aero – 4.54g
Extralight Round – 5.44g
Extralight Aero – 5.44g
One Aero – 6.84g


Titanium (Zen TiX)
Pro (Round / Flat) – 3.7g
Titan – 3.7g
Aero – 2.9g
Aero SL – 2.6g

Carbon Fibre

External Nipple
CS01 3.1mm – 2.1g
CS02 3.25mm – 3.5g
CS03 3.95mm – 3.5g
CS04 4.5mm – 3.5g
CS05 5.1mm – 3.5g
CS06 5.9mm – 3.5g

Hidden Nipple System

CS07 3.2mm – 2.05g
CS08 5.2mm – 2.7g
CS09 4.0mm – 2.7g

Notes

All quoted weights include the nipple. All Quoted weights are estimates based on manufacturer specified estimated weights.
Steel spoke builds use Sapim Secure Lock alloy nipples as standard.
Sapim Secure Lock brass nipples are also available in black, silver or natural brass.
Zen TiX titanium spokes are supplied with matching titanium nipples.
Carbon spokes use their dedicated nipple systems.

[gbrnole]

what is the lightest 65mm deep road rim available that can support a system weight of 92 Kg? (system weight is rider, bike, filled water bottles, clothing, spares, computer and lights).

Thanks!

[ZenCarbonBike]

what is the lightest 65mm deep road rim available that can support a system weight of 92 Kg? (system weight is rider, bike, filled water bottles, clothing, spares, computer and lights).

Thanks!

Hello Sir


The lightest 65 mm road rim we currently offer that is suitable for yourself is our 25 mm internal / 32.4 mm external profile @425g

For your 92 kg system weight, we would recommend the 425 g Superlight layup, which has a 100–110 kg system weight limit. This is the lightest suitable option in our 65 mm range. Next is 135kg limit at 495g

Alternatively, we have our new VaporLite rim. Although it is only available in a 60 mm depth, it offers a higher 120 kg system weight limit while being significantly lighter.

The available VaporLite layups are:

* Ultra – 385 g per rim, 120 kg system weight limit
* Race – 415 g per rim, 120 kg system weight limit
* Heavy Duty – 435 g per rim, 130 kg system weight limit

If you’re happy to consider a 60 mm depth instead of 65 mm, the new VaporLite would be our recommendation as it offers an excellent combination of low weight, strength and aerodynamic performance.

If you would like further information, a complete wheelset weight estimate, or a quotation, please don’t hesitate to contact us using the details below. We’d be happy to help configure the most suitable wheelset for your riding requirements.

[gbrnole]

Hello Sir


The lightest 65 mm road rim we currently offer that is suitable for yourself is our 25 mm internal / 32.4 mm external profile @425g

For your 92 kg system weight, we would recommend the 425 g Superlight layup, which has a 100–110 kg system weight limit. This is the lightest suitable option in our 65 mm range. Next is 135kg limit at 495g

Alternatively, we have our new VaporLite rim. Although it is only available in a 60 mm depth, it offers a higher 120 kg system weight limit while being significantly lighter.

The available VaporLite layups are:

* Ultra – 385 g per rim, 120 kg system weight limit
* Race – 415 g per rim, 120 kg system weight limit
* Heavy Duty – 435 g per rim, 130 kg system weight limit

If you’re happy to consider a 60 mm depth instead of 65 mm, the new VaporLite would be our recommendation as it offers an excellent combination of low weight, strength and aerodynamic performance.

If you would like further information, a complete wheelset weight estimate, or a quotation, please don’t hesitate to contact us using the details below. We’d be happy to help configure the most suitable wheelset for your riding requirements.

if i was using a 2:1 lacing on THR R2 hubs - could i get away with using the lightest 65mm carbon rim (the 385g version) having extra spoke count and and taller hub flange on a rear wheel or is the 90 Kg weight limit pretty much it regardless of how the wheel is laced?

or i guess i just need to quit eating cake!

[ZenCarbonBike]

if i was using a 2:1 lacing on THR R2 hubs - could i get away with using the lightest 65mm carbon rim (the 385g version) having extra spoke count and and taller hub flange on a rear wheel or is the 90 Kg weight limit pretty much it regardless of how the wheel is laced?

or i guess i just need to quit eating cake!

  Sir



The 90 kg rider/system weight limit is for the rim itself, regardless of the lacing pattern. We would not recommend using a 2:1 hub with this particular 385 g rim. For this rim, we would build it with a 1:1 spoke pattern hub.

These 90 kg rims are designed primarily for lighter riders and good road surfaces. We also recommend leaving a reasonable margin below the maximum weight limit, especially if you regularly ride rough or poorly maintained roads.

As I mentioned before, our latest VaporLite II 60 mm rim is a much more advanced option. It has a 120 kg weight limit and uses an updated blend of T800, T1100 and MJ carbon fibres, making it significantly stronger while remaining very light.

Some example builds are:

* THR R2 hub (285 g), 3.95 mm spokes: 1,212.5 g
* THR R2 hub, 4 mm hidden carbon spokes: 1,176.5 g
* ZC235Rc hub (235 g), 20/20 spokes, 3.95 mm spokes: 1,145 g
* ZC235Rc hub, 4 mm hidden carbon spokes: 1,113 g

In our opinion, the VaporLite II is the better choice if you’re looking for the lightest wheelset without compromising strength and durability.

[ZenCarbonBike]

Hello Members

Additional photos of our new moulded spoke hole rims.
Various size available for Road, MTB and Gravel.
Please contact for more information for rim only and wheel build options

[penguin]

Coming Soon – VaporLite II 60 mm

Estimated wheelset weights VaporLite Ultra:

Carbon Spokes Bladed 3.1mm (Optional Spoke widths 3.25 / 4.5 / 5.1 & 5.9mm. Hidden Spoke Nipples 3.2 & 5.2mm all available upon Request)

1,069 g ±30 g – Paired with our new ZC-215Rc hub (215 g), replacing our previous lightest hub. ZC235Rc 20F 20R
1,089 g ±30 g – ZC235Rc 2024 (235 g, 20F/24R).
1,099 g ±30 g – ZC245RC (245 g, 24F 24R).

I think something is missing from these weight calculations. ZC235Rc 2024  is 20g heavier than ZC-215Rc. But the complete wheels weights only increases 20g from 1,069 to 1,089. It doesn't seem to account for the weight of four extra spokes and nipples in  the rear wheel. (or subtract the material loss in the rim of four extra holes).

[JB007]

Good day

Yes Round Ends 2.2mm
Specifications below nipples included

               

CS01   3.10±0.15mm   0.98±0.05mm   2.1±0.1g   350kgf   280kgf   80kgf
CS02   3.25±0.15mm   1.45±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS03   3.95±0.15mm   1.25±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS04   4.5±0.2mm   1.17±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS05   5.1±0.1mm   0.9±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf
CS06   5.9±0.1mm   0.75±0.05mm   3.5±0.2g   500kgf   320kgf   120kgf

Hidden nipple spokes
CS07    3.2±0.15mm   0.98±0.05mm   2.05±0.1g   350kgf   280kgf   80kgf

CS08   5.2±0.2mm   1.17±0.05mm   2.7±0.1g   450kgf   320kgf   100kgf

CS09.        4.0±0.2mm   1.22±0.05mm   2.7±0.1g   450kgf   320kgf   100kgf

Why are the hidden nipple spokes (e.g. 4 mm) lighter than the CS03 spoke with almost identical cross-section?