Thinking of Going Deeper Counterfeit Frames – UPDATE and Fund Link

[Sander2177]

I would love a some analysis of the frames, and get some expert opinion on safety or anything else. For these, you wouldn't need a benchmark as you could probably just rely on expert knowledge.

But yeah, I would prefer an analysis of the X68 more than a replica.

I donated, keep the money for a good meal or charity of your choice, if the project is not funded!

Thanks, Neo — really appreciate it.

And also, thanks for putting your trust in me. If I can raise enough funds, the plan is to get two frames — another X68 and a decaled replica, or maybe just compare my existing X68 to a rep. Either way, two frames would definitely be better for testing and comparison.

And honestly, if the whole thing doesn’t work out, I’ll just donate the money to charity. I couldn’t, in good conscience, use people’s donations to treat myself to a meal or something like that — no matter how tempting that might sound.

Like I’ve said before, some people are willing to drop $700–800 on a counterfeit frame from a seller they’ve never met halfway across the world — and yet hesitate to chip in a few pounds or the cost of a coffee to support an actual test of one of these frames. It’s kind of funny when you think about it — the risks people are willing to take.

Take someone like Taiwan Eisen Pete — people trusted him, he had a good reputation for a while, and then he vanished. Now there are who knows how many people out there left out of pocket, $600–$800 a frame. And yet there’ll be others reading this thinking, “Nah, I’m not sending this guy five quid — I don’t even know him.” I get it. But still, it’s a strange contrast.

That said, it’s been great to see some of the regulars and long-time forum members putting their trust in me. That really means a lot — and I’m genuinely grateful for it.

[Sander2177]

It’s a start!
Cheers to those who have donated 🙏

[jerozilla]

I have a replica Factor Ostro VAM v1 from one of the most reputable "fakers" it's their highest tier 3 layup. Only has about 120km on it. It did not workout for me (Frame is excellent quality to the point you wouldn't tell the difference it's just way too aggressive for me) and I ride an Enve Fray now. No one wants to purchase it and I would never try to sell it as a real one even though it really does look 1:1. I've done the endoscope camera etc down the frame but nothing extensive.

I would be willing to donate it if it was guaranteed to be used/scanned for science and not just sit in your garage lol.

[Bonus79]

I'm in agreement with Serge here.

Focusing your time and energy on X68 vs SL8 comparisons is the way to go. Rather than investing in another clone. Scrutinizing both frames with impunity will go a long way for the members here.

Sander, I agree with Patrick....I think the reference point/term of comparison should be the SL8, so if you really wanted to have two frames examined/scanned, I think it would make more sense to opt for the SL8 and X68 (which you already own) in order to have an objective comparison "on paper" between the two frames (as Serge also said), which can then be followed by a comparison "on the road" to understand in practice what the differences that could emerge from examining the two frames translate into.
Here, I think this could be the most interesting/useful "focus" if you want to make an evaluation of the X68 replica frame.

[JustinFox]

I still fail to see what the point is?

Peak Torque has made it quite clear that he actually despises companies sending him products to review as they benefit from his expertise to make their product better without paying him.

So in this case, you're asking us to pay so they can make a better replica product to sell to the masses?

No aggression meant, just confused as to what the point of all this is as it's well documented that many people have had (and most likely will continue to have) catastrophic failures with genuine big brand products too (which are usually covered under warranty).

[Sander2177]

I find it strange that you don’t see the point here.

These are counterfeit frames we’re talking about — not licensed replicas, not budget alternatives, but unregulated products from unknown or questionable sources. My concern isn’t about helping someone improve their product for free — it’s about understanding the true quality and safety risks of items that people are already buying and riding, often without realizing what they’re actually getting.

Let’s be real: people are willingly spending $700–800 on these frames with no warranty, no customer support, and no accountability. Yet, when someone like me asks for $10 to help cover the cost of testing, the reaction is suspicion and skepticism?

I don’t have to do this. I have a regular job. I’m spending my own time and energy because I believe there’s genuine value in bringing clarity to a part of the market that’s murky at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t bother. But if no one is willing to step up and do some level of objective testing, then we just keep guessing — or worse, people keep riding risky gear with no idea what they’ve actually bought.

Yes, I’m well aware that big-brand frames have had failures — SL7 steerers, broken Bianchis, Canyon bar issues, and more. But the key difference is: those brands offer warranties, recalls, and legal accountability. That’s not even remotely comparable to a counterfeit frame made in a random, unregulated factory with zero oversight and no one to turn to if it breaks under you.

Bonus mentioned the idea of testing an SL8 vs the X68. I agree, it’s a great idea. But let’s not forget: I’m the one doing all the legwork — stripping down bikes, arranging testing, documenting the process, and taking the time to share it with the community. I’m more than happy to pass that mantle on if someone else wants to step up and take it on. This isn’t about ego. It’s about actually doing the work.

No aggression meant — just being honest. Not all risks are equal, and pretending they are isn’t helping anyone.

[JustinFox]

Sounds like you have a big heart Sander (much respect), but from what I gather from this forum (and weight weenies) is that people are well aware of the risks in buying substantially cheaper unregulated products as that substantial savings is what speaks louder than logic.

IE: I have so far had no issues with this "insert replica product here" so it's fine.

Hell people (myself included) are even willing to take the risk of replacing a perfectly good working compression plug for a 5g alternative.

So just say the outcome after testing is YAY! The product is safe! Do you think more people will buy the replica frame? Or just say the end result after testing is BOO! The product is dangerous! Do you think less people will buy the replica frame?

I think if your mission was to somehow cover all replica products, that could make a change, but only focussing on this one SL8 replica frame won't accurately represent all the other replica products on the market (but it might just give the company a bad name which is cool if that's your intent). EG: If the tests suggest this replica frame is dangerous it doesn't at all mean that other replica frames are dangerous.

PS: Not trying to start a war here, just contributing to the discussion as that's what I thought you wanted (I do believe discussion is a good thing).

[Sander2177]

Sounds like you have a big heart Sander (much respect), but from what I gather from this forum (and weight weenies) is that people are well aware of the risks in buying substantially cheaper unregulated products as that substantial savings is what speaks louder than logic.

IE: I have so far had no issues with this "insert replica product here" so it's fine.

Hell people (myself included) are even willing to take the risk of replacing a perfectly good working compression plug for a 5g alternative.

So just say the outcome after testing is YAY! The product is safe! Do you think more people will buy the replica frame? Or just say the end result after testing is BOO! The product is dangerous! Do you think less people will buy the replica frame?

I think if your mission was to somehow cover all replica products, that could make a change, but only focussing on this one SL8 replica frame won't accurately represent all the other replica products on the market (but it might just give the company a bad name which is cool if that's your intent). EG: If the tests suggest this replica frame is dangerous it doesn't at all mean that other replica frames are dangerous.

PS: Not trying to start a war here, just contributing to the discussion as that's what I thought you wanted (I do believe discussion is a good thing).

Appreciate the thoughtful response — and definitely no war here, just solid discussion, which is exactly what forums like this are for.

I’m covering this subject and I have had alot of people DMing me asking which seller offers the “best quality” replica — and yeah, I get how strange that sounds.

Is "quality" even a word we can seriously attach to a counterfeit product? All these sellers claim “best quality,” but let’s be real — that’s just marketing to move units, no different in spirit from the big brands, just without the R&D and oversight.

That said, even though no one can definitively answer that question, testing one or two frames does offer valuable insight. It won’t tell the full story, but it gives us a tangible snapshot of what’s being sold — and if multiple replica frames (like Factor, Pinarello, etc.) are coming out of the same few factories, then testing even a couple could reveal patterns worth knowing.

I also agree that testing one replica frame (like this SL8) doesn’t represent the whole market, either positively or negatively. But I anticipated this would stir up conversation, and honestly, that’s kind of the point. No one is ever going to cover every angle — it’s impossible — but you’ve got to start somewhere, right?

Even if a test result says “YAY! Safe!” or “BOO! Dangerous!”, I doubt it’ll drastically shift everyone’s buying habits. But it adds a bit more signal to the noise and gives people some real data to think about. That’s all I’m aiming for — not to pass judgment, just to inform and encourage some healthy debate.

[glepore]

Yes, it won't be comprehensive. But even one data point is pertinent information.
Luescher used to do his cut videos, but that was quite some time ago. His chinerelo video was revealing...worth a watch if you haven't seen it (spoiler-both frames had issues, real and fake, and he couldn't tell fiber composition of either).

If we learn that we don't learn anything, that's still useful knowledge.

I agree that a ride comp is worth the time. Sander has done a summary, but its based on recollection. It might be interesting to do a couple (shortish) rides on each back to back with same wheels, tires and pressures to get a more accurate review. I say shortish because freshness could be a factor. But you'd have to control everything, saddles, position, even bartape really. Those of you old enough will recall that Bicycle Guide back in the day had Mondonico build a bunch of identical bikes with different grades of Columbus tubing for a blind test to see if anyone could feel the difference on the road.

If anyone wants to send me an actual 49 sl8 pro, I volunteer to be the test mule.

[Sander2177]

Of course it’d be great to do this kind of testing on a large scale, but let’s be honest — we’re all just regular people here. Most of us have day jobs, limited time, and limited budgets. I’m not a YouTuber, I don’t have a sponsor, and I’m not running some massive testing lab. I’d love to be able to test multiple frames across OEMs, brands, and replicas, but realistically, I can only start with what I have access to.

And I get it — some people are more interested in OEM or “own-brand” frames like the Spcycle R088, and that’s totally fair. But there’s also a large group of riders out there who can’t (or don’t want to) spend £5k+ on a branded frame, Princeton wheels, or $500 saddles. So they go to AliExpress, and they buy replicas. Whether people like it or not, that’s the reality.

What I’m doing isn’t about promoting one thing over another. It’s about starting somewhere. I have t a real SL8, so I don’t feel the need to test it  — but maybe I will after your suggestion which is great . I also ordered an X68, and the idea is simple test a copy (maybe now test against SL8 Bonus  . It won’t answer every question, but it’s a step toward understanding what’s out there.

Like you said — and I totally agree — it's difficult to achieve comprehensive coverage of everything. These discussions always snowball. You say you're going to test one frame, and then it becomes, “Well, why not test this frame too? Or that one?” And I get that, but at some point someone’s got to actually do something — not just talk about it. It’s easy to suggest ideas, harder to follow through.

Also, just to touch on another thing — people assume the big brands have flawless QC. But let’s be honest: not every Specialized frame is getting X-rayed and rigorously tested. Some might, but most are probably spot-checked. So even “premium” frames can have issues. The only difference is the brand name and the price tag, plus a lot of clever marketing.

So yeah — this is a big topic. It sparks debate, it divides opinion, but it’s a conversation worth having. You’ve got to start somewhere.

[Bonus79]

I find it strange that you don’t see the point here.

These are counterfeit frames we’re talking about — not licensed replicas, not budget alternatives, but unregulated products from unknown or questionable sources. My concern isn’t about helping someone improve their product for free — it’s about understanding the true quality and safety risks of items that people are already buying and riding, often without realizing what they’re actually getting.

Let’s be real: people are willingly spending $700–800 on these frames with no warranty, no customer support, and no accountability. Yet, when someone like me asks for $10 to help cover the cost of testing, the reaction is suspicion and skepticism?

I don’t have to do this. I have a regular job. I’m spending my own time and energy because I believe there’s genuine value in bringing clarity to a part of the market that’s murky at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t bother. But if no one is willing to step up and do some level of objective testing, then we just keep guessing — or worse, people keep riding risky gear with no idea what they’ve actually bought.

Yes, I’m well aware that big-brand frames have had failures — SL7 steerers, broken Bianchis, Canyon bar issues, and more. But the key difference is: those brands offer warranties, recalls, and legal accountability. That’s not even remotely comparable to a counterfeit frame made in a random, unregulated factory with zero oversight and no one to turn to if it breaks under you.

Bonus mentioned the idea of testing an SL8 vs the X68. I agree, it’s a great idea. But let’s not forget: I’m the one doing all the legwork — stripping down bikes, arranging testing, documenting the process, and taking the time to share it with the community. I’m more than happy to pass that mantle on if someone else wants to step up and take it on. This isn’t about ego. It’s about actually doing the work.

No aggression meant — just being honest. Not all risks are equal, and pretending they are isn’t helping anyone.

I honestly have no idea how the tests/scans on the frames are done.

I understand your point very well: if the lab that would perform the studies needs the "naked" frames, it would be an inconvenience for you to have to completely dismantle the bikes and deprive yourself of the possibility of using them.

I hadn't thought of that. 

[Sander2177]

I honestly have no idea how the tests/scans on the frames are done.

I understand your point very well: if the lab that would perform the studies needs the "naked" frames, it would be an inconvenience for you to have to completely dismantle the bikes and deprive yourself of the possibility of using them.

I hadn't thought of that. 

No worries, the tests involve a mix of CT scans and ultrasound. The bikes might not need to be fully stripped down, but I’ll need to confirm that. For a proper inspection, just the frames are required. The scanning cost for two frames is around £300-400 GBP.

However, the bikes do need to be stripped and rebuilt — including new brake hoses, cables, etc. Hiring a mechanic might cost around £500 for both bikes. Plus, it means I’d be without the bikes for possibly two weeks or more, considering stripping, inspection, pick-up, drop-off for rebuilding, and final pick-up. Time is really valuable to me, and I don’t have a lot of spare due to life commitments!

I could drop of one frame at a time but that doubling up on trips etc!

had 2242 views on this thread so could have easily had enough cash to cover the cost at $1usd each maybe even buy an R088 when you think about it. 

[Sander2177]

Thanks to the 9 people who have sent in some ££

[Bonus79]

No worries, the tests involve a mix of CT scans and ultrasound. The bikes might not need to be fully stripped down, but I’ll need to confirm that. For a proper inspection, just the frames are required. The scanning cost for two frames is around £300-400 GBP.

However, the bikes do need to be stripped and rebuilt — including new brake hoses, cables, etc. Hiring a mechanic might cost around £500 for both bikes. Plus, it means I’d be without the bikes for possibly two weeks or more, considering stripping, inspection, pick-up, drop-off for rebuilding, and final pick-up. Time is really valuable to me, and I don’t have a lot of spare due to life commitments!

I could drop of one frame at a time but that doubling up on trips etc!

had 2242 views on this thread so could have easily had enough cash to cover the cost at $1usd each maybe even buy an R088 when you think about it.

If your project succeeds, I will be happy to contribute to the cause (even if the frame in question does not directly concern me)....I am waiting for the counter to reach at least £300 GBP 

[Sander2177]

If your project succeeds, I will be happy to contribute to the cause (even if the frame in question does not directly concern me)....I am waiting for the counter to reach at least £300 GBP 

Thanks Bonus79!
The counter is at £179.19!
Someone I know not on the Forum has ordered and X68 so he said he is happy to pass me his frame for inspection
I am contacting this company this week https://carboncyclesolutions.co.uk/