LTK266-D-SL, race frame, 680g, <800g w/paint & metal parts (M), fits 35mm+ tires

[adam900710]

And LTK really loves to give me some surprise.

Just see the picture, there is no hole on the FD hanger, so no way to install an FD.

I'm pretty sure it's just a wrong part sent to me, and I don't even need to bother LTK for a replacement, as the FD from bigrock seems to fit perfectly.

But still, Chinese OEMs are always giving me all kinds of surprise, sometimes good, sometimes not so good.

[Sakizashi]

And LTK really loves to give me some surprise.

Just see the picture, there is no hole on the FD hanger, so no way to install an FD.

I'm pretty sure it's just a wrong part sent to me, and I don't even need to bother LTK for a replacement, as the FD from bigrock seems to fit perfectly.

But still, Chinese OEMs are always giving me all kinds of surprise, sometimes good, sometimes not so good.

Wow. This is bad. I think their supplier just didnt make the hole for the FD mount. The FD mount should also have a channel that allows you do run the Di2 wire through a hole in the frame behind the mount so its neater.

I dont know why the frame doesnt come with a plug for the mechanical routing hole near the BB, but thats not supposed to be used for a Di2 wire. I just used some black Sugru on that hole as ive found that stuff is easy to remove if needed but also functions well as a plug

[adam900710]

Wow. This is bad. I think their supplier just didnt make the hole for the FD mount. The FD mount should also have a channel that allows you do run the Di2 wire through a hole in the frame behind the mount so its neater.

I dont know why the frame doesnt come with a plug for the mechanical routing hole near the BB, but thats not supposed to be used for a Di2 wire. I just used some black Sugru on that hole as ive found that stuff is easy to remove if needed but also functions well as a plug

To be honest, no matter if it's ICAN/LTK/Mondince/whatever, they do not provide any customization on the frameset itself, like filling the unused mechanical cable exit with carbon cloth, or adding the missing Di2 wire exit.
They just ask the customer to workaround the problem, not even want to accept the extra fee just to modify the frame a little.

Furthermore, the weight is not that exceptional, considering there are already Chinese branded framesets that are around the same weight (<700g before paint), and still no more expensive than this unbranded frameset:

- KONTAX SUPROSS PRO
  https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=966701314171

  Which is 5000RMB before shipping, slightly higher than my price from LTK.
  But with the lowest claim about the weight before paint, 652g, and the price already includes painting.
  (other colors are available with the same price)

- VOOK V8
  https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=911720925706

  Which is 4000 RMB before shipping, much cheaper than LTK.
  The problem is the headset, the upper bearing is not the common 52mm one, but 49mm one.

Finally, I do not buy the T1000/T1100/T1200 or whatever cloth they are claiming. Because it's not only BS, but also shows how unoptimized the layout is.

I also weighted several frames I owned, and all of them are weighted including the trimmed fork/seatpost, metal parts like axles/bearing/headset cover seatpost collar, and a stem (pro plt).
The full weight of LTK266-D-SL (headset cover is from TOKEN, size S) is 1600g, the same level as Bigrock (non-team version, size XS).

And my previous CRF51 frame (size XS) is 1650g, and the OEM is claiming it's just an upgrade from T700 to T800, no T1000 or higher.

Not to mention the OEM of CRG51 is doing a pretty good job customizing the frame, by removing/filling the unnecessary cable entrance/exit, providing a real Di2 only frameset, and with all the extra fee for cutomization, it's still cheaper than the VOOK V8 frameset.

Considering a lot of Chinese frame/wheel sellers are charging more and more for no obvious benefit, I'm going to be more and more cautious about their claims, and stick to frames with more interchangeable parts (e.g. 27.2 seatpost, 52mm headset bearing with 8.7mm bore depth, UDH, proper Di2 FD exit).

Unfortunately this frame is not the one I'm expecting.

[Sakizashi]

To be honest, no matter if it's ICAN/LTK/Mondince/whatever, they do not provide any customization on the frameset itself, like filling the unused mechanical cable exit with carbon cloth, or adding the missing Di2 wire exit.
They just ask the customer to workaround the problem, not even want to accept the extra fee just to modify the frame a little.

Furthermore, the weight is not that exceptional, considering there are already Chinese branded framesets that are around the same weight (<700g before paint), and still no more expensive than this unbranded frameset:

- KONTAX SUPROSS PRO
  https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=966701314171

  Which is 5000RMB before shipping, slightly higher than my price from LTK.
  But with the lowest claim about the weight before paint, 652g, and the price already includes painting.
  (other colors are available with the same price)

- VOOK V8
  https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=911720925706

  Which is 4000 RMB before shipping, much cheaper than LTK.
  The problem is the headset, the upper bearing is not the common 52mm one, but 49mm one.

Finally, I do not buy the T1000/T1100/T1200 or whatever cloth they are claiming. Because it's not only BS, but also shows how unoptimized the layout is.

I also weighted several frames I owned, and all of them are weighted including the trimmed fork/seatpost, metal parts like axles/bearing/headset cover seatpost collar, and a stem (pro plt).
The full weight of LTK266-D-SL (headset cover is from TOKEN, size S) is 1600g, the same level as Bigrock (non-team version, size XS).

And my previous CRF51 frame (size XS) is 1650g, and the OEM is claiming it's just an upgrade from T700 to T800, no T1000 or higher.

Not to mention the OEM of CRG51 is doing a pretty good job customizing the frame, by removing/filling the unnecessary cable entrance/exit, providing a real Di2 only frameset, and with all the extra fee for cutomization, it's still cheaper than the VOOK V8 frameset.

Considering a lot of Chinese frame/wheel sellers are charging more and more for no obvious benefit, I'm going to be more and more cautious about their claims, and stick to frames with more interchangeable parts (e.g. 27.2 seatpost, 52mm headset bearing with 8.7mm bore depth, UDH, proper Di2 FD exit).

Unfortunately this frame is not the one I'm expecting.

Why is the tone of this so aggressive? I was just trying to help — and suggest you ask for and get the right FD mount rather than using the Bigrock one.

First, neither the Vook nor the Kontax bike was launched when this thread was created. It should be no surprise that the tech of an open mold gets lapped in terms of weight. Afterall the Elilee Blize XXE had been out for a couple of years before this frame launched as had the Aethos, etc so it wasnt like there is groundbreaking tech here. Second, the exception with this bike is still the combination of its weight and tire clearance.

That Kontax looks really nice if you don't want the tire clearance. It's worth noting that the cost of making changes to the mold is pretty high. Even if it's just a different insert or part of the mold, it's several hundred dollars and if its larger sections it could be a lot more.

Are you suggesting that I edit the contents to the first post? Is there information that you would like to see reflected that is missing?

[adam900710]

Why is the tone of this so aggressive? I was just trying to help — and suggest you ask for and get the right FD mount rather than using the Bigrock one.

Sorry my rant it's not against you, but against a lot of (if not all) Chinese OEM frame sellers, which are doing crazy claims on the carbon cloth, and maybe even the tire clearance.
In fact I appreciate a lot of info in your first post.

First, neither the Vook nor the Kontax bike was launched when this thread was created. It should be no surprise that the tech of an open mold gets lapped in terms of weight. Afterall the Elilee Blize XXE had been out for a couple of years before this frame launched as had the Aethos, etc so it wasnt like there is groundbreaking tech here. Second, the exception with this bike is still the combination of its weight and tire clearance.

Yes, there are similar weighted frames, although not sure if it's before this frame or not, e.g. the bigrock one.
The bigrock's price is definitely higher than this, but if one can buy directly from the OEM (e.g. the microck branded one seems to be from the OEM), it's cheaper and very similar to this price wise.

Then it comes to another possible lie, tire clearance. I'm not saying the 35mm claim is true or false, because I do not have a tire that measures 35mm. (The CX/gravel one measures only 33mm).
But my current road tires measure exactly 32mm, and there is still plenty space on my older frames that only claim 32mm clearance, including the bigrock frame and CRF51.

So I'm not sure if the 35mm claim is just another T1100 claim or what.

That Kontax looks really nice if you don't want the tire clearance. It's worth noting that the cost of making changes to the mold is pretty high. Even if it's just a different insert or part of the mold, it's several hundred dollars and if its larger sections it could be a lot more.

Only if the cable entrance/exit is molded. Some frames leaves a hole for the cable entrance/exit, and later add putty/cloth/resin to form the needed shape. Some details are not that easy to all be done by mold.
Not sure if the FD exit is really molded in just one go.
For the only frame that the OEM provides customization, it's definitely not molded.

And even for molded cable exit, it's still possible to fill it using putty before paint.
That will be less ideal, but I'd say still better than nothing.

The most ideal FD situation would be dedicated Di2 wire exit, then a minimal drilled 1.5~2mm hole just for the shift cable. If no mechanical shifting is needed, just don't drill the hole.

That's what my Y22 TCR adv frame is doing, but unfortunately that means there must be a cable guide under BB, and nowadays with fully integrated cable routing, it's less and less common, especially among Chinese OEMs.

To be honest, I do not understand why Chinese OEMs are putting so much effort on mechanical shifting support.
It's going to be a mess with fully integrated cable routing anyway, and there are already cheap electric shifting alternatives.

Are you suggesting that I edit the contents to the first post? Is there information that you would like to see reflected that is missing?

The only info I guess others may be interesting is the FD exit situation (5mm round, no grommet provided nor easy to find), and maybe the gap between the fork and headtube (2mm, definitely larger than a lot of frames).



And a final rant, again not against you, but the whole Chinese frame OEMs.
I have definitely spent too much money on Chinese frames, enough money to directly buy a good frame from big brands, e.g. Specialized Aethos or the recent Chapter2 RIRA.
But I have not yet find a Chinese OEM paying any attention to details or accessories, they all focus on weight, carbon cloth grade, exotic aero shapes.

My requirement for a good frame is not that weird (I have already dropped the external hose routine requirement):

- Traditional tube shape
  Either round or rounded box, non-aero.

- Good Di2 support
  Either provide Di2 grommets to reuse the mechanical FD exit, or dedicated Di2 wire exit and a way to fill the mechanical exit.
  If the seatpost is not round, provide the battery mount.

- Common headset bearing for better headset cover selection
  I hate fully integrated cable routing, a semi integrated headset cover is a must.
  Considering most after market 52mm bearing/headset requires 8.7mm bore depth, so that should be the target.

- Clearance for 32mm measured tire width
 
- Weight <850g painted

The bigrock frame doesn't meet the headset (8.3mm bore depth) and Di2 support (FD exit).
The LTK one doesn't meet the Di2 requirement (FD exit again), and had a larger-than-normal gap between fork and headset.

I also have a Chapter2 TOA frame, which doesn't tick the headset (require specially shaped headset cover) nor the Di2 support (non-round seatpost without battery mount).

My Giant TCR adv pro frameset Y2022 is not meeting the weight (everything included 2kg, 400g over all the Chinese ones) nor the tire clearance (28mm), but I have to give it a mention.
Giant has the best grommet/plug situation for all possible shifting systems, Di2 wire/wireless, eTap, mechanical, with proper Di2 battery mount. That's definitely something all those Chinese OEMs should learn from.
It was my dream frame, until the BB started to creak...

So far only the cheapest Chinese frame ticks all the boxes, with an extra external cable routing box ticked:

- CRF51 with OEM modification
  Unfortunately I didn't weight the frame, and didn't believe the weight claim (750g), and wrongly thought the weight is definitely over 850g.

  There are minor problems like the axles/seatpost lock collar is working but not the best quality.
  But that can be easily resolved as those can easily find replacements.

  It got some damage caused by dropped chains before I installed a chain catcher. but overall still pretty good and strong.

If I can not find a good grommet for the FD exit (alternative plugs on the way), I may switch back to the old frame, or just buy a new CRF51.

[Sakizashi]

Got it. No problem I just misread and the frustration with cheap chinese frames is real. The attention to detail on these open molds is lacking in large part because factories like LTK expect someone else to do the finishing.

Then it comes to another possible lie, tire clearance. I'm not saying the 35mm claim is true or false, because I do not have a tire that measures 35mm. (The CX/gravel one measures only 33mm).
But my current road tires measure exactly 32mm, and there is still plenty space on my older frames that only claim 32mm clearance, including the bigrock frame and CRF51.

So I'm not sure if the 35mm claim is just another T1100 claim or what.

If you haven't been able to test or measure, please stop throwing around speculation like this. There is literal documentation in this thread of the tire clearance. I personally have fit an 8mm allen key all the way around a 33mm tire (as measured), and currently have 35mm small knob gravel tires (36mm as measured), and can easily fit a 6mm allen key all the way around.

The pics of the 33mm are in this post: https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6158.msg87963.html#msg87963

The tire clearance here is easily good enough to be labeled 35mm, and I think a lot of brands, including some discussed on this forum, would say this frame clears 40mm tires, as it could fit 40mm measured tires with 4mm to spare, which meets ISO4210 labeling requirements for "race" bikes. This is a very generous 35mm clearance bike, but not quite good enough to meet the 6mm clearance standard for 38mm.

If I can not find a good grommet for the FD exit (alternative plugs on the way), I may switch back to the old frame, or just buy a new CRF51.

Use some black Sugru or another moldable silicone glue, then move on. Takes like 30 seconds to put some on and can be removed pretty easily with a pick and is much cheaper than trying to source a fitting grommet. I also added this as a con on the front post to ensure future buyers are warned of this drawback.

[adam900710]

If you haven't been able to test or measure, please stop throwing around misinformation. There is literal documentation in this thread of the tire clearance. I personally have fit an 8mm allen key all the way around a 33mm tire (as measured), and currently have 35mm small knob gravel tires (36mm as measured), and can easily fit a 6mm allen key all the way around.

The pics of the 33mm are in this post: https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6158.msg87963.html#msg87963

The tire clearance here is easily good enough to be labeled 35mm, and I think a lot of brands, including some discussed on this forum, would say this frame clears 40mm tires, as it could fit 40mm measured tires with 4mm to spare, which meets ISO4210 labeling requirements for "race" bikes. This is a very generous 35mm clearance bike, but not quite good enough to meet the 6mm clearance standard for 38mm.

Or let me change the tune, it's not LTK claiming false 35mm clearance, but other older Chinese frames claiming lower clearance.

Just installed the same wheelset on bigrock (32mm claimed), 5mm hex key can pass the tyre and chainstay (barely), 16.4mm between the seat tube and tyre.
On CRF51 (30mm claimed), 5mm hex key can pass (barely), 16mm between seattube and tyre, almost the same as bigrock.

Furthermore, on TCR ADV pro MY22, claimed 28mm clearance, the 32mm tyre also fit, to my surprise, but indeed with almost no headroom.
Can only barely pass a 3mm hex key, with 8.1mm room between tyre and seat tube.


Yes, the LTK ones can pass a 6mm key easily (but not pass 8mm here though), 16.6mm between seat tube and tyre.
If that's 35mm clearance, then I'd call bigrock and CRF51 32mm or 33mm clearance.

With that said, the 35mm is not that a huge advantage compared to older 32mm/30mm clearance frames.
But if one really wants to fit 35mm tyre, it's definitely more spacious than those older frames, but may not be that hugely different.

Use some black Sugru or another moldable silicone glue, then move on. Takes like 30 seconds to put some on and can be removed pretty easily with a pick and is much cheaper than trying to source a fitting grommet.

Not sure if it would survive bi-week wash. But at least thanks for the advice.

[Dareios]

To be honest, no matter if it's ICAN/LTK/Mondince/whatever, they do not provide any customization on the frameset itself, like filling the unused mechanical cable exit with carbon cloth, or adding the missing Di2 wire exit.
They just ask the customer to workaround the problem, not even want to accept the extra fee just to modify the frame a little.

Furthermore, the weight is not that exceptional, considering there are already Chinese branded framesets that are around the same weight (<700g before paint), and still no more expensive than this unbranded frameset:

- KONTAX SUPROSS PRO
  https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=966701314171

  Which is 5000RMB before shipping, slightly higher than my price from LTK.
  But with the lowest claim about the weight before paint, 652g, and the price already includes painting.
  (other colors are available with the same price)

- VOOK V8
  https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=911720925706

  Which is 4000 RMB before shipping, much cheaper than LTK.
  The problem is the headset, the upper bearing is not the common 52mm one, but 49mm one.

Finally, I do not buy the T1000/T1100/T1200 or whatever cloth they are claiming. Because it's not only BS, but also shows how unoptimized the layout is.

I also weighted several frames I owned, and all of them are weighted including the trimmed fork/seatpost, metal parts like axles/bearing/headset cover seatpost collar, and a stem (pro plt).
The full weight of LTK266-D-SL (headset cover is from TOKEN, size S) is 1600g, the same level as Bigrock (non-team version, size XS).

And my previous CRF51 frame (size XS) is 1650g, and the OEM is claiming it's just an upgrade from T700 to T800, no T1000 or higher.

Not to mention the OEM of CRG51 is doing a pretty good job customizing the frame, by removing/filling the unnecessary cable entrance/exit, providing a real Di2 only frameset, and with all the extra fee for cutomization, it's still cheaper than the VOOK V8 frameset.

Considering a lot of Chinese frame/wheel sellers are charging more and more for no obvious benefit, I'm going to be more and more cautious about their claims, and stick to frames with more interchangeable parts (e.g. 27.2 seatpost, 52mm headset bearing with 8.7mm bore depth, UDH, proper Di2 FD exit).

Unfortunately this frame is not the one I'm expecting.

Has anyone ridden the Kontax? Cause there are zero reviews/posts about the bike being built/how it rides.
Vook V8 is interesting because there you have a lightweight bike with more of an endurance geometry (new Aethos before the new Aethos) + an aero handlebar.

[nanatetsi]

Has anyone ridden a Tarmac SL8 and an LTK266-D-SL and can give some feedback on how the LTK "feels" compared to an SL8? So far the frame ticks almost all boxes (except aero) for me.

[waterboat2025]

And a final rant, again not against you, but the whole Chinese frame OEMs.
I have definitely spent too much money on Chinese frames, enough money to directly buy a good frame from big brands, e.g. Specialized Aethos or the recent Chapter2 RIRA.

exactly my sentiment, i hesitated to spend money so far and after reading all the problems people have its not worth it. Here in Europe I can get a brand new Cube Nuroad Frame for 900 Euro. On local classifieds people often sell barely ridden big manufacturer bikes/frames for not much more.

Same with wheels current trend 50 depp 24 steel spokes or even fewer carbon ones. Reported lack of lateral stiffness (check out Rides of Japans latest vid on the Zen Carbon crap) and horribly noisy hubs. They all offer the same.

I tried to order a 28 spokes asym wheelset from Deerobust and Carbonbikekits with Bitex 312 Hubs. They wont offer it or they charge a premium. LB is really overpriced and what people dont seem to understand with the Airia Wheels - achieving this light a rim using T700 and T800 the sidewalls have to be paper thin or the amount of resin has to be reduced.
So for the same price (or even cheaper compared to LB) I can get a brand new Reserve Wheelset cause there are plenty of folks who buy a Cervelo and swap the wheels.

Chinese OEM is moving in a wrong direction imho and I would rather spent a little more money for a much better product.

[Sakizashi]

A couple of quick thoughts. Yes, 35mm vs. 32mm clearance is like 1-1.5mm difference per side. It’s not that much, but it can make a huge difference if you actually intend to run a 32mm tire on a large IW rim or a 35mm knobby tire. I recognize I might be the only one who has done both, but it was a criteria for me. This was one of the only options, Chinese or not that could clear a 35mm tire with 6mm all the way around and had a race bike’s geo. The Cervelo and Factors options couldnt do that at the time.

Regarding Chinese companies OEMs pumping out replicas or products that are too flexy / not fit for actual use by people who want to go fast on bikes; the irony is that y’all are complaining on a thread about one OEM products that is an original design that was allegedly benchmarked to deflection numbers of the Giant TCR. Yes, this frame has its warts, the OEM part spec is poor, and the rubber bits are total crap or missing; but it builds into a really nice, light, versatile bike if the geo is right for you.

This is not an CFR51/ Aethos copy. It’s not a replica. Its also probably not as nice as a Quick Pro, but thats OK.

[klrdd]

A couple of quick thoughts. Yes, 35mm vs. 32mm clearance is like 1-1.5mm difference per side. It’s not that much, but it can make a huge difference if you actually intend to run a 32mm tire on a large IW rim or a 35mm knobby tire. I recognize I might be the only one who has done both, but it was a criteria for me. This was one of the only options, Chinese or not that could clear a 35mm tire with 6mm all the way around and had a race bike’s geo. The Cervelo and Factors options couldnt do that at the time.

Regarding Chinese companies OEMs pumping out replicas or products that are too flexy / not fit for actual use by people who want to go fast on bikes; the irony is that y’all are complaining on a thread about one OEM products that is an original design that was allegedly benchmarked to deflection numbers of the Giant TCR. Yes, this frame has its warts, the OEM part spec is poor, and the rubber bits are total crap or missing; but it builds into a really nice, light, versatile bike if the geo is right for you.

why are people coming into this thread to dump on Chinese OEMs in general?

Other than needing to buy and use an FSA headset vs. what Alisa sent, I for one had no problems building this bike up, and I had never built a bike before.

Now 2,000 km in, I've raced the bike up a hillclimb TT, descended at 70kph, done multiple fast group rides, gravel rides, group rides through downpours -- at all the paces. It is great for what it is.

It's not an SL8 or an Aethos; its not a Scott Addict RC Pro. Getting any of those bikes built up with the same componentry would have been double the price.

And I'll be putting 35mm knobbies (or maybe those new Conti Terras or G-One RS Pros...open to advice) on it this summer for dirt/fire roads out West.

[PowerWadln87]

All of you ordered about the Homepage of Long teng and the inquiriy Button?

[CycOps]

Chinese OEM is moving in a wrong direction imho and I would rather spent a little more money for a much better product.

All good - just do what you want ;-)

[Serge_K]

exactly my sentiment, i hesitated to spend money so far and after reading all the problems people have its not worth it. Here in Europe I can get a brand new Cube Nuroad Frame for 900 Euro.

Funny seeing this on a long teng thread, given they OEM for Cube...