Author Topic: CT Scan Project: Update & Refunds  (Read 19987 times)

Sander2177

CT Scan Project: Update & Refunds
« on: June 29, 2025, 04:23:34 AM »
The project’s already reached £198.61 — a huge thanks to everyone who’s backed it so far 🙌
We’re close now, and I’d love to keep this moving. Even if we start with just one frame — likely the X68 vs my real SL8 — we’ll finally get some real-world data instead of guesswork and speculation.

Why does this matter?

Because two frames can look the same, weigh the same, and still ride completely differently — especially if one was laid up in a certified factory with real QC, and the other came from an unverified source with zero transparency or accountability.

We see this all the time:
➡️ “Factory A is better than Factory B.”
➡️ “This seller says it’s the same mold as the real thing.”
➡️ “Someone on Reddit said theirs is fine.”

But none of that is data. No scans. No internal layup comparisons. No independent validation.

That’s why this project exists. Because no one — not a single YouTuber or reviewer — is showing what’s actually inside these frames. And when someone challenges the idea, they usually have nothing to offer except “you’re assuming.” Meanwhile, I have both the genuine and the replica in my hands.



💥 Want to get involved?
If you’ve ever thought about buying a replica, already own one, or just want answers — this is your chance to help make it happen:

👉 paypal.me/sanderson2177

Even a small amount helps. If we hit the target, we’ll scan a second frame. If we fall short, I’ll scale it or refund. 100% transparent.



Let’s stop guessing.
Let’s stop asking strangers for frame advice based on surface impressions.
Let’s find out what’s really inside these bikes.

#CTScanProject #ChineseCarbon #SL8Replica #NoMoreGuesswork

acino

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2025, 08:17:48 AM »
#SayNoToSpammingTheForumsWith4thThreadOnTheSameTopic

Sander2177

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2025, 09:21:03 AM »
#SayNoToSpammingTheForumsWith4thThreadOnTheSameTopic

Hey Acino, fair point—and apologies if it came across as spam, that really wasn’t my intention. I created the third thread to help catch attention, as updates added to existing threads are often missed once people have already read them.

I wouldn’t consider a third thread to be spamming, but I understand your point and I’ll aim to keep things more consolidated going forward.

If you have any constructive feedback or thoughts on the actual topic, that would be more helpful than just calling it spam. Appreciate the input either way.

Sebastian

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2025, 10:10:39 AM »
I think he‘s trying to say that you’ve made your point many times now across different threads. And I too fail to see why we need yet another one. Some might find your endeavour interesting enough to support you. Others don’t.

I personally think that scanning one or two frames from one source and comparing it with the original might be of interest for owners of that particular frame. But I don’t think it brings much value to anyone else beyond that. We can’t draw any general conclusions from it. Arguably, it might not even give us any information about the general quality of TanTan frames because everything we know indicates that they’re sourcing it from elsewhere. I think it is what it is: You buy a replica of unknown origin means you take a risk.That’s not really gonna change no matter how many frames we’re scanning.

gbrnole

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2025, 10:55:05 AM »
+1. i've already spelled out my view on the previous thread.
One interesting development since: a user who bought 2 frames received 2 completely different forks. One is much heavier than the other, and one has a metal insert for the TA while the other doesnt. We know Tantan is shady, but that's next level. People here are convinced tantan doesn't make these frames, we know there have been catastrophic failures, and now it's evident that you can get different flavours of the same product, so might as well piss in the wind, at this point.

On the scan, it's still unclear to me what we could expect to get precisely. I asked whether the scan allows to know what fibers are used, as this at least would be interesting, given how much BS there is around "full T1000" and the likes, but got no answer. I can only assume that a scan doesn't even tell us that?
all fair points. i can understand manufacturing differences over a period of months, possibly even weeks but when two frames are shipped simultaneously and have substantial differences in the one frame component is most fearful of failure, it is a bit concerning. some of the weight difference could be attribute to paint but i think i'd feel a bit better with a fork that is 50g more heavy - it's still sub 400g.

Sakizashi

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2025, 12:19:44 PM »
I am also curious to know what you expect to see from a scan. At best i think what you will get is a discussion of their construction techology and how that may or may not relate to voids.

Getting actual deflection numbers from a testing rig would be more interesting, but utimately still not that useful.

Sander2177

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2025, 01:34:38 PM »
+1. i've already spelled out my view on the previous thread.
One interesting development since: a user who bought 2 frames received 2 completely different forks. One is much heavier than the other, and one has a metal insert for the TA while the other doesnt. We know Tantan is shady, but that's next level. People here are convinced tantan doesn't make these frames, we know there have been catastrophic failures, and now it's evident that you can get different flavours of the same product, so might as well piss in the wind, at this point.

On the scan, it's still unclear to me what we could expect to get precisely. I asked whether the scan allows to know what fibers are used, as this at least would be interesting, given how much BS there is around "full T1000" and the likes, but got no answer. I can only assume that a scan doesn't even tell us that?

You may already know the photo below is part of what is being using onthe frames.
Not Toray apparently Korean
What a CT Scan of a Carbon Frame Can Show:
   1.   Internal Delamination
   •   Separation between carbon layers that isn’t visible from the outside.
   •   Common after impacts or manufacturing defects.
   2.   Cracks and Fractures
   •   Even hairline cracks deep within the layup can be detected.
   •   Especially useful if you’re inspecting a crash-damaged frame.
   3.   Voids and Air Bubbles
   •   Tiny air pockets left during the layup or curing process.
   •   Can weaken the structure over time or under stress.
   4.   Resin Rich/Poor Areas
   •   Imbalances in resin distribution that may compromise strength.
   •   Indicates possible quality control issues during manufacturing.
   5.   Bonding Defects (for frames with bonded joints or inserts)
   •   Whether components like dropouts, bottom brackets, or cable ports are properly bonded.
   6.   Wall Thickness and Fiber Alignment
   •   Consistency and precision of layup.
   •   Helps assess build quality and strength uniformity.




Sander2177

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2025, 01:38:36 PM »
I think he‘s trying to say that you’ve made your point many times now across different threads. And I too fail to see why we need yet another one. Some might find your endeavour interesting enough to support you. Others don’t.

I personally think that scanning one or two frames from one source and comparing it with the original might be of interest for owners of that particular frame. But I don’t think it brings much value to anyone else beyond that. We can’t draw any general conclusions from it. Arguably, it might not even give us any information about the general quality of TanTan frames because everything we know indicates that they’re sourcing it from elsewhere. I think it is what it is: You buy a replica of unknown origin means you take a risk.That’s not really gonna change no matter how many frames we’re scanning.

Thanks for the response—I get where you’re coming from. The intention wasn’t to flood the forum, but to highlight different angles of a niche but relevant topic for quite a few people, judging by the number of views and messages I’ve received.

I understand that scanning a couple of frames won’t provide statistically significant conclusions about all open-mould or replica frames. That’s fair. But I think it still offers value—especially for riders who own or are considering similar frames. It’s one thing to say “you take a risk,” but another to start illustrating what that risk might actually look like.

I know many are very critical, but what alternative are you proposing? I think it’s important to have this discussion, especially given the amount of criticism—it’s better than ignoring the concerns altogether.

I’ll aim to keep future updates in a single thread to keep things tidy. Appreciate your input either way.

Sander2177

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2025, 03:03:53 PM »
I am also curious to know what you expect to see from a scan. At best i think what you will get is a discussion of their construction techology and how that may or may not relate to voids.

Getting actual deflection numbers from a testing rig would be more interesting, but utimately still not that useful.


Thanks for your thoughts—there are some fair points in what you’ve said.

I’m not claiming the scans will offer conclusive evidence across all frames or suppliers. But they do give a clearer view than most of the speculation out there. It’s not about making grand claims—it’s about adding a bit more information to the conversation.

Also, I think if we’re going to criticise, it’s only fair to ask: what’s the better alternative? I’d genuinely be open to hearing suggestions that move the conversation forward.

Sakizashi

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2025, 03:42:12 PM »

Thanks for your thoughts—there are some fair points in what you’ve said.

I’m not claiming the scans will offer conclusive evidence across all frames or suppliers. But they do give a clearer view than most of the speculation out there. It’s not about making grand claims—it’s about adding a bit more information to the conversation.

Also, I think if we’re going to criticise, it’s only fair to ask: what’s the better alternative? I’d genuinely be open to hearing suggestions that move the conversation forward.

If the point is construction methods and safety, do the scan.

If you want to determine frame properties, perform the relevant deflection tests that won't break the frames.

If you want to know if it matters to riders, do the blind test Serge is suggesting.

At the end of the day, though--the more I think about this, the more it makes me uncomfortable. If the story is true and these were produced using original CAD files of the mold, those files were likely stolen or sold without permission. The rights to those files belonged to someone.

I personally would stop fundraising, return the money, and enjoy riding my bikes.

Sebastian

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2025, 05:33:50 PM »
But I think it still offers value—especially for riders who own or are considering similar frames. It’s one thing to say “you take a risk,” but another to start illustrating what that risk might actually look like.

I think it doesn’t which was kind of my point. No matter what the results would be, it appears you can’t even bet on getting two frames from TanTan that are identical in construction let alone know where other sellers are getting their frames from so the whole exercise seems pointless to me. Interesting maybe but pointless nonetheless.  You’re asking to solve a problem that really has no solution. If you don’t want to take risks, buy from (more) credible sources that do provide more information on QC and testing data or do at least have a positive track record here on the forum. If you ignore all of these points then you choose to take that risk.

I think it’s very well documented here on the forum what the red flags are when communicating with a seller. If they promise the world to you but cannot or do not want to answer detailed questions about their product, you should be sceptical.



SkylarRnD

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2025, 09:16:23 PM »
I think it’s very well documented here on the forum what the red flags are when communicating with a seller. If they promise the world to you but cannot or do not want to answer detailed questions about their product, you should be sceptical.

Has anyone started a masterlist of good/bad frames or brands? Or even complaints of unsafe things?

Sander2177

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2025, 11:34:39 PM »
Thanks again to everyone contributing here — even when the perspectives are critical, I really do appreciate the engagement and the thought behind the replies.

Let me clarify a few things. The primary goal of this CT scan is to look at frame quality and construction. That’s always going to be a core concern with unbranded or replica frames — especially when there are known risks around manufacturing inconsistencies, and reported issues like the fork failures. For frames like these, I think it’s fair that people want to see what’s going on under the surface.

That said, I know this project isn’t going to answer everything. I don’t have the time or budget to do a full suite of lab tests — ride quality, deflection data, long-term fatigue testing, etc. If I did, I’d absolutely aim to make something more comprehensive. But within the scope of what I can do, I hope this still adds value.

@Serge – I now understand your earlier point more clearly, and you’re right: the side-by-side ride test is a valid and valuable approach. I’ve been riding both frames, but not in a direct comparison, so I’ll try to set up a proper back-to-back session this week if time allows. The idea of masking the bikes and having others ride them blind is brilliant — maybe tricky to organise, but I do know someone who’s about to receive one of these frames, which could open the door to doing this. Definitely something I’d like to try.

@Sakizashi – Thanks for laying out the different testing angles clearly. I hear you: if the point is construction and safety, the scan makes sense. If it’s frame properties, deflection or stiffness testing would be better. And for real-world impact, the blind ride test adds a whole different layer. All three methods are useful in their own ways, and ideally they’d complement each other. On your ethical concern — you’re probably right. Realistically, this frame likely exists because someone used or leaked original IP. That is uncomfortable to acknowledge, and I don’t take it lightly. I’m still processing that side of things, but I do appreciate you raising it so clearly.

@Sebastian – You make a valid point about inconsistency. That may actually be one of the more useful things to emerge from the scan — if it shows how construction varies, even between similar-looking frames. I agree we won’t get sweeping answers from a sample size of two. But for those who already own these frames — or are on the fence — even a limited view inside might offer more than the anecdotal red flag lists. It’s not a silver bullet, but hopefully it contributes something concrete to the bigger picture.

Again, I’m not trying to make grand claims here — just trying to move the conversation forward in a practical and constructive way. If there are better alternatives within reach, I’m genuinely open to hearing them.

Sander2177

Re: CT Scan Project: Real Frame vs Replica – Next Step
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2025, 03:51:37 AM »
Quick update for everyone following the project:

So far, we’ve raised £215 via PayPal donations — a huge thank you to everyone who’s contributed. I’m aiming for around £400 to cover the cost of scanning two frames. I’ve reached out to the carbon lab again (still waiting on a reply), and I’ll chase them up shortly.

I know there’s been a lot of discussion around whether two frames are enough, and some have suggested including an OEM frame for comparison. I totally get that — and I agree, more data would be better. But I’m just a regular guy with a normal job, and if I had the time and money, I’d happily scan a dozen frames and publish the results. For now, though, I think starting somewhere is better than not starting at all.

I’m currently leaning toward scanning an X-68 replica and comparing it to my S-Works SL8. That should give us a decent baseline and some real insight into what’s going on structurally between the two.

And just to be clear — if for any reason this doesn’t go ahead, I’ll either refund everyone or donate the funds to charity. No one’s money will go to waste.

Thanks again for the support — let’s see where this goes.

Sander2177

CT Scan Project: Update & Refunds
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2025, 11:41:11 AM »
Hi all,

Just a quick update regarding the CT scan project I was working on.

First off, apologies for not commenting or replying to the posts I originally put up — it’s been quite a while. I’ve just been really busy and hadn’t had the time to properly follow up.

Thanks to the twelve gents who donated — it totalled around £265, which I genuinely appreciated. The aim was to fund a CT scan of a counterfeit frame to shed some light on what’s actually going on inside these things.

Unfortunately, the project didn’t gain as much traction as I’d hoped. And with a regular job and limited time, I’ve found it hard to keep pushing it forward.

So, I’ve decided to call it a day. I’ve refunded everyone who contributed — I just felt that was the fairest and most transparent way to close it off.

Really appreciate the support from those who got behind it — it meant a lot.