Velobuild VB-R-368 Aeroframe

[toxin]

Compared to rcr-f. Completely different chainstay, different seattsay angle, shaping and junction with the seattube, different fork crown and integration with the head tube, different head tube shaping, different transitions into the toptube and downtube, different bb junction.

Crucially, vb don't lock you into a ridiculously setback seatpost to go with a slack seat angle.

[Sakizashi]

The slacker HTA (72˚) also means that you can run a shorter stem (compared to traditional frames) while having the same handling characteristics.
I also like the fact that is less aggressive (regarding STR) than the VA-AFO or Noah Fast.

Ok, I get where you are coming from with the focus on the larger sizes. Compared to a 56 Tarmac, you are gaining 12mm in length and only 3mm in stack; however, the slacker HTA will increase trail, not decrease it. The 43mm offset fork is bog standard so that you will need a longer stem, not a shorter one, for the same handling feel. This isn't a bad thing. This bike should feel stable at speed, but again, the geometry doesn't support your intention.

[voidptr]

Ok, I get where you are coming from with the focus on the larger sizes. Compared to a 56 Tarmac, you are gaining 12mm in length and only 3mm in stack; however, the slacker HTA will increase trail, not decrease it. The 43mm offset fork is bog standard so that you will need a longer stem, not a shorter one, for the same handling feel. This isn't a bad thing. This bike should feel stable at speed, but again, the geometry doesn't support your intention.

No, you're wrong. Slacker HTA will increase trail and therefore will make steering slower. To compensate you can run a shorter stem, which reduces the steering lever length, making the front end feel quicker again.

[Sakizashi]

No, you're wrong. Slacker HTA will increase trail and therefore will make steering slower. To compensate you can run a shorter stem, which reduces the steering lever length, making the front end feel quicker again.

Way to be confidently wrong. The trail has nothing to do with the rate at which you turn your bars. The angle remains the same. The trail governs the length of the lever providing feedback to the steering opposing your effort. You get stronger feedback with a longer trail, so the steering has more resistance. A longer stem counters this; a shorter stem magnifies this.

[Sakizashi]

Hey, I got called out based on something that was not correct, so I went ahead and provided more information. When discussing a theoretical frame, I think we should try and provide at least theoretically accurate punditry. Agree on stability. I believe this is a reason why so many Chinese aero frames are going long-trail. It is interesting to me, though, that the long-trail race bike on the WT, the V4RS, is no longer that way, with the V5 adopting a more traditional trail with steeper HTAs and a higher offset fork.

This frame is fascinating for a lot of reasons. Seemingly original design, deep tubes, what looks like a narrow HT profile, and the STR theory thing while very niche, is cool to see put into practice. But I very much want to see a photo of a real frame before I get too excited over those features.

[Sebastian]

Does anyone else wonder why this frame can be ordered but there’s not a single photo of it on the site? Are they just lazy or does it actually mean customers literally get the first units to ever come out of the mold? VB was also present at Eurobike, right? But I can’t remember having seen this frame there in the numerous videos online. IIRC they had their new gravel frame at the stand.

[Sebastian]

Orders first, customer second.
Probably the same with their new gravel frame, lots of people have ordered, and they've been in limbo since with deadlines slipping.
So i'd say they're running pre sales more than sales, but they dont advertise it that way, probably because in their mind, it makes little difference: people will end up receiving what they order, so why worry?

Is it a shitty way to work? yeah

That’s not quite what I meant. I’m thinking that at least in theory they would have had to make at least some samples of the frame and fork to have someone do the required ISO testing to even be allowed to sell them. Therefore, they could have made some product photos. I remember when they started selling the 218 for instance, they had actual detailed photos for both versions of the frame. Lately they don’t. So I wonder if they start selling these without ever having made a single one of them.

[voidptr]

any infos about the bearing cover and headset?

[Uberflo]

52*40*7 as described on the website but proprietary bearing cover so hard to get any other handlebar on the frame

[TCal]

Looking forward to seeing pics of a full build.

[Tines]

That’s not quite what I meant. I’m thinking that at least in theory they would have had to make at least some samples of the frame and fork to have someone do the required ISO testing to even be allowed to sell them. Therefore, they could have made some product photos. I remember when they started selling the 218 for instance, they had actual detailed photos for both versions of the frame. Lately they don’t. So I wonder if they start selling these without ever having made a single one of them.

Do they really „need“ the ISO?

[Tines]

Yeah I know but what’s going on there doesn’t seem to be that regulated.
If they want to establish themselves with western retailers it’s something else, but straight b2c …
And if they don’t even state the ISO testing ..

[Sebastian]

Well, I’m not an expert by any means. But AFAIK at least under European regulations any seller importing bike parts would have to deliver evidence of the required testing under the ISO 4210 protocol. Whether or not these certificates are actually worth anything in real life, I dunno. I also don’t know about the domestic market in Asia, for instance. This issue has been discussed in other threads here at length, I think.

My point was, for tests to be done, there would have to be physical samples of the frame. So why not just photograph those and market the product with actual photos? This feels a bit half baked but maybe I’m overthinking it.

[SWeiden]

As far as I know, you are the importer when buying dtc from china so you are responsible for the safety of the product.

[Sebastian]

As far as I know, you are the importer when buying dtc from china so you are responsible for the safety of the product.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know that. Looking into it further, there is the GB 3565 standard under the Chinese law, which is somewhat similar to ISO 4210. But again, it is unclear how thoroughly and widespread the authorities actually enforce that sellers adhere to this standard.