[Help Wanted] High-End SL8-Like OEM Frame – T1100/EPS/UD Raw

[Sander2177]

Ah yes, the classic “all frames are basically the same once the sticker’s off” theory.
Thanks for the OEM economics 101, really enlightening. I guess the only thing separating a 500$ clone from a clean EPS-molded T1100 layup is… ignorance? Or maybe a sticker printer shortage in Shenzhen?
Appreciate the perspective — but let’s not confuse price with spec.

I’m not chasing logos or paying retail markups. I’m not building a wall ornament either. This is a focused, research-driven build exploring the upper edge of OEM capabilities:
   •   EPS molding only (no bladders)
   •   Layups with verified high-modulus zones
   •Target frame weight under 800g
   •Confirmed geometry, tolerances and molding method

That’s a different pursuit from buying generic shells and crossing fingers.
If someone wants a $500 gravel beater and sleeps well at night — good for them.

But saying “there’s no real difference” between a carefully engineered layup and a random bladder-molded replica? That only shows you’ve never studied real layups up close — let alone cracked one open.

And sure, if I already knew everything about the OEM world, I’d clearly not be here asking smart people for help, right?
Anyway, cool story about your friend having trauma over his S-Works. Sounds like he needs a therapist more than a new bike;)

I need a therapist 😂 thanks! but I have the bike you want in reality 😁

There’s not a significant gap between OEMs and major brands, as it’s typically the OEMs who handle most of the testing and product development—even for well-known brands. While a few larger brands may lead their own design work, they still often rely on the expertise of Chinese OEM engineers.

In reality, most brands don’t manufacture anything themselves; their main role is marketing, packaging, and selling the products developed and produced by OEMs.

[Sakizashi]

There has been an uptick of individuals joining this forum with blatantly self-serving behavior, yet failing to read the room of whom the experienced folks are in here.

I'm not the morality or etiquette police. And this isn't Weight Weenies. This is sub-genre forum of well-meaning people who can look past the BS of most major brands. Perhaps contributing in a productive manner rather than disregarding the people who have already answered your question would have you fare better in here.

We looking forward to seeing your contributions in the coming months.

Not all of us are here because we believe the big brands are peddling BS. There's a little bit of rocks in glass houses in that statement. Just a little tho.

Some of us are using this as a way to learn and discover what is out there beyond what gets marketed to us. That said, I don't disagree that OP is being very abrasive.

[Sakizashi]

There’s not a significant gap between OEMs and major brands, as it’s typically the OEMs who handle most of the testing and product development—even for well-known brands. While a few larger brands may lead their own design work, they still often rely on the expertise of Chinese OEM engineers.

In reality, most brands don’t manufacture anything themselves; their main role is marketing, packaging, and selling the products developed and produced by OEMs.

This is part of the myth that is often peddled by many people here. IME, this is not true. From what I have gathered, the general expertise is primarily in mold design, layup, and structural design. The latter is where there is overlap with many factories and top bike brands. This type of overlap, though, is necessary and something you see in every industry where a company leans on its supply base for innovation. The reason so many of these Chinese companies currently have struggles with bearings wearing out after a season of riding, endcaps that don't fit, seatposts that slip, headset bearings, and front ends that don't fit together correctly, etc., is that their product development processes are either not mature or don't exist. This gap is significant and is also why Chinese brands Seka, Evolve, and QuickPro have found room to operate, and why their prices are significantly higher than those of the OEMs they use or are a part of.

For some of these frames, gaps are closed by members of this forum, who provide fixes and redesign parts that should work out of the box. For example, how many collective hours went into troubleshooting the Velobuild headsets?

Of course, there are exceptions. I 100% would trust Peter from XM Carbonspeed to develop a product, but he isn't cheap. .

[NicoCarbonH]

I'm sorry i offended you.
I never wrote “all frames are basically the same once the sticker’s off”
I never wrote “there’s no real difference” between frames.

You so clearly dont know what you're talking about, it's crazy that you have the hubris to attack users.

Consider dealing with your fragile ego, learning what nuance means, and good luck.

Thanks for your reply my ego is doing just fine don’t worry;)

I can understand that the tone of my initial message may have come across as a bit sharp — that wasn’t my intention at all. I wasn’t aiming at anyone personally, nor trying to create any tension.

My goal here is simply to learn as much as possible in order to carry out a project that really matters to me.
I’m not an expert — and that’s exactly why I’m here: to ask questions, understand the technical differences between OEM frames, and learn from people with more experience.

I’m currently looking for a high-quality OEM frame, with a demanding set of criteria, and I’m fully prepared to put a real budget into it — not to build a showroom bike, but something personal, based on informed and deliberate choices from start to finish.

That’s why I’m digging into topics like EPS molding, layup structure, and manufacturing tolerances.

If my message came off as too blunt or too direct, I apologize — it wasn’t meant that way. I’m not here to challenge anyone or create conflict.

I’m here to learn, share ideas, and move forward with my project, while respecting everyone’s input and experience.

Thanks again for your reply — I’m looking forward to more constructive and technical discussions ahead.

[NicoCarbonH]

There has been an uptick of individuals joining this forum with blatantly self-serving behavior, yet failing to read the room of whom the experienced folks are in here.

I'm not the morality or etiquette police. And this isn't Weight Weenies. This is sub-genre forum of well-meaning people who can look past the BS of most major brands. Perhaps contributing in a productive manner rather than disregarding the people who have already answered your question would have you fare better in here.

We looking forward to seeing your contributions in the coming months.

Thanks for the reminder — I fully understand the spirit of this forum, and it’s exactly why I’m here: out of respect for the quality of discussions and the depth of knowledge being shared.

That said, I’m not sure what specific behavior you’re referring to. I do take the time to read through the replies people post — especially when they’re sharing useful insights or technical details I can actually learn from.

I’m not here to take shortcuts or rehash basic topics, but to genuinely understand what’s possible with high-end OEM frames, and to engage with people who’ve already dug deep into this world.

I know I’m not an expert — that’s why I’m here. I’m asking questions in good faith, trying to learn, and doing my best to contribute when I can.

So yes, I’m here to participate constructively, and I look forward to being part of the conversation in the long run. Appreciate the welcome, and see you in the tech threads

[NicoCarbonH]

This is part of the myth that is often peddled by many people here. IME, this is not true. From what I have gathered, the general expertise is primarily in mold design, layup, and structural design. The latter is where there is overlap with many factories and top bike brands. This type of overlap, though, is necessary and something you see in every industry where a company leans on its supply base for innovation. The reason so many of these Chinese companies currently have struggles with bearings wearing out after a season of riding, endcaps that don't fit, seatposts that slip, headset bearings, and front ends that don't fit together correctly, etc., is that their product development processes are either not mature or don't exist. This gap is significant and is also why Chinese brands Seka, Evolve, and QuickPro have found room to operate, and why their prices are significantly higher than those of the OEMs they use or are a part of.

For some of these frames, gaps are closed by members of this forum, who provide fixes and redesign parts that should work out of the box. For example, how many collective hours went into troubleshooting the Velobuild headsets?

Of course, there are exceptions. I 100% would trust Peter from XM Carbonspeed to develop a product, but he isn't cheap. .

who is Peter ? Proxy? Seller? Thk u.

[BeR]

who is Peter ? Proxy? Seller? Thk u.

Peter from XM carbon Speed.

[glepore]

Peter is often cited here as an example of a oem that is short on bs and long on product development and production. He does frames as well, his "gran turisimo" is similar to what you're looking for, except for the t1000.

FWIW, even the major brands use t1000 sparingly as its fragile. Light, but stiff and easy to fracture. Plus very costly. Beware anyone marketing a frame to you as "t1000". A major bike using 25-30% t1000 would be a lot of t1000.

Wheels are another matter, folks use more "t1000" or m40 in those to achieve startling low weights, but they're structures with the carbon tensioned, adding to strength.

[Sakizashi]

who is Peter ? Proxy? Seller? Thk u.

Peter is someone who develops products and shares them here. Why would I trust him? His products have a good track record here and in other places. Most importantly tho, he iterates designs fast and doesn't overlook details.

He isn't the only one tho, my THR industries hubs are fantastic and the supplied rims exceeded my expectations. While not expensive those are not cheap products.

For a frame, there is one open mold frame that meets most of your requirements, but it lacks the aero element of the SL8 and I don't know if anyone can provide verification of material like you are asking. https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6158.0.html

Check out the LTK266-D-Sl at that link. It is an open mold, but Long Teng has been around the open mold scene nearly as long as Flybike and they have a consistently positive reputation.

[NicoCarbonH]

Thanks a lot for the info and the link, really appreciate you sharing it! It’s very helpful for my research:)

[NicoCarbonH]

Thanks for the info, I’ll take a closer look at it!

[JustinFox]

Some really good discussion in this thread. I'm enjoying it.

I'm 50, and a retired graphic designer. I've lost years of my life stressing and fighting over taking down other designers who ripped off my work, so that being my journey to where I am today it's understandable why I'm very much against counterfeit goods.

That said some people on Weight Weenies caught me out by spotting a "no logo" Gelu saddle on one of my builds. Sure, some people were real nasty about it (fair enough), but one guy was constructive (like many of you in here are) and well, what he wrote got to me (something along the lines of "that's just how the world is today, like it or not"), and whilst I'm still against counterfeit goods sold as the real thing (imitation logos, packaging etc.) I'm now OK (I think...) with products that take inspiration (all that said I ended up buying a genuine Gelu saddle and man it cost a LOT).

I've spent my whole life buying Giant bicycles. I worked in a bike shop that sold Giant bikes when I was younger so got staff discount. I bought a lot of them because they were such good value for money, but I always dreamed of owning more boutique bicycles.

Fast forward to today; I finally paid off my 17 year mortgage and you know what? Fuck it. I recently sold my house, bought a small apartment and now for the first time in my life I have money so I'm going to spend it on bikes and there's no fucking way I'm ever going to buy another Giant ever again, ever!

I do not at all feel precious about my S-Works Tarmac SL8. It's just a bicycle and I ride it in all conditions and it's awesome. I have a tonne of Chinese branded products on it, they're great!

My father was Chinese so I'm itching to get busy on an all out build using only Chinese branded products. The wait has been worth it as I see Joe at PP is selling performance tyres now (that really was the last missing piece) and the Magene groupset should be out soon.

The TanTan SL8 copy intrigues me, and I think it would be a fun project but ultimately I already know what the end result will amount to. IE: It's good, but not as good as the real thing, and God forbid I share my thoughts on it in comparison to the real thing if both builds did not have identical parts...

This forum is awesome. Some real knowledge in here, some bullshit, strong opinions, and people of all different values and mindsets. Happy to be here.